Depression

“Me? I don't use anything to self medicate.

To those with depression, anxiety can often occompany it. Both dep. & anxiety have similar symtoms.”

“Gremlin, thank you for your thoughts. I think that even if your depression is caused by negative feelings leftover from previous abuse, that stress can still lead to nutritional deficiencies. It doesn't hurt to try some B-complex like Stress Tabs, 500 mg Vit C morning and night, 50 additional mg of no flush Niacin or niacinamide, 50 mg Vit B6, 30 mg Zinc morning and night, and 800 iu Vit E taken separately. Also eat salmon for omega 3 oil, and take calcium citrate with vit D or eat calcium rich foods and get into the sun whenever possible. If that sounds like a lot, just start with the B vitamins and work up. They make a big difference in healing the brain so it can handle life. Depression is very common for people who have had a major illness, and I think that it is more due to the brain not getting enough nutrients (they are going elsewhere to heal the body) than due to the fact that the person is bummed to be sick. Also some medications needed by a major illness, can cause the absorbtion of nutrients to drop.

A lot of people mentioned exercise, and I am not trying to divert attention away from that. Getting oxygen, good circulation, and burning off stress can make a huge difference in a person with depression.”

“That's right, LyndyS.

Actually, I'm seeing my doctor to-day. I mentionned that I'm in remission, but had I thought I was cured. I went up north caribou hunting over the Christmas hols., my very first vacation just for me. Now, agoraphobics need to control their (our) environment with a trip well planned and alternative or escape routes meticulously prepared. Well, I was about five hundred miles from home, with about 600 more to go and I had just ended my driving shift when we stopped for dinner. I was eating cole slaw when it hit me and I screamed (internally) to myself, 'What were you thinking of, you @sshole? You're five hundred miles from home, with 600 more to go and a passenger with three other guys who have no idea you're agoraphobic. How could you have forgotten?'

Well, I started to shake and there was cole slaw pretty much everywhere. My buddies still laugh about it; one said (while we were laughing about it in his kitchen), 'It's a good thing we weren't at a Chinese restaurant when you started shaking, you could have poked somebody's eyes out.'

Luckily, I recognised the symptoms and realised I had forgotten or believed I was cured because I've been feeling so well the last couple of years.

Things turned out fine,. in fact, they wouldn't let me gut my 'bou because they wouldn't let me work with a kinfe. Anyway, I got shaky last Friday while soloing in the 'Dacks and just came home. I'm going to see the doc for a prescription for short term meds (I have the name in the Jeep) to make sure I can get over the hump if (when) it happens again. I'm not going to let anything get in the way of the FYAO III this week-end.

Self-medication, like ALL medication, in my opinion, is a double edged blade. It can help in the short term, but be deadly over the long haul. That reminds me, I'm going to have a wee dram at my buddy's place after my doctor's appointment this afternoon.

When I crashed almost four years ago, I had to see my doctor (a real sweetheart whom I've known for 25 years and no stranger to depression after her son was killed) every week. I was assigned a therapist at the local clinic and I was seeing both weekly. Both would ask me right at the beginning, 'Are you going to hurt yourself? Are you going to hurt anyone else?'

'No, no.' I would reply.

Well, my therapist didn't know me, her kids are too young to be my students. My one contact with the outside world was a friend and colleague who'd lived through some of the same things as myself and had had bouts of depression too. One Sunday I was at his place and he said, 'Therapy? You want therapy?' and he pulled out his trap machine and we started busting clays. Now, I'm a fine rifle shot, but I'm terrible with a shotgun (actually, I've gotten a lot better, but don't know why). Anyway, I just couldn't miss and was soon pounding doubles, one after the other.

Monday my therapist asks, 'Are you going to hurt yourself? Are you going to hurt anyone else?' and then, 'Is your medication (Paxil)starting to work?'

'I guess so,' I replied, 'I've never shot so well in my life.'

Definitely not the thing to say to a therapist.

As LH mentionned, many depressives are also dependant, often on alcohol or drugs. My therapist kept on this theme until she got to know me. Now my therapy was in French, because I can do both and one day she mentionned that I was looking (and talking) much better and that she was confident I was well on the road to recovery.

'I guess so,' I said. 'Last week I went to Montreal three times, once on the spur of the moment (which is pretty good for an agoraphobic). My buddy said, "Let's go to Montreal and buy some powder." and I went.'

Now 'powder' in French means cocaine and my therapist got this really weird look on her face that I couldn't figure out while I kept talking. Suddenly it dawned on me, 'Gun powder,' I said, 'We reload ammunition.'

I don't think she ever eally got used to me. My colleagues say she should do her thesis on me, except that no-one could believe a lot of it.

That's not true. One of the things I found re-assuring about therapy is that it soon becomes clear that you are not unique in your affliction. They've seen (and heard) it all and lots of it is worse.

Just thought I'd share some of the silly stuff.”

“Gremlin, I know that you live in a more outdoor environment than me, but I was cracking up just thinking about what a therapist here would think about all the gun shooting.

Medication is certainly a big help for many people. Some people with attention deficit only take medication when they have a week or so of tight deadlines. The rest of the time they just cope with it. Some people go on and off of anti depressents throughout life. My daughter may take them later on. I just was trying to get her full grown before doing any of that, because I wasn't comfortable with all the doctors saying that the stuff was safe for children. I have a friend who's son is bipolar, and he has been on a medication carousel for years. They have never tried nutritional supplements along with the medication and my friend won't listen to me about it because her father was bipolar and she just feels that it is inevitable. That to me is just wrong because you are ignoring a whole aspect of treatment that might really help and can't hurt. Unfortunately there are not a lot of doctors that are knowledgeable about this approach that you can take a patient to. Mostly you do it on your own. That is why I wouldn't go into megavitamins, because of the lack of doctor supervision.”

“You and I see pretty much eye to eye, LyndyS.”

“Here's the medicine for when things get bad: fukidol”

“LMAO!!!! come on, dont make me laugh i'm in stitches dont ya know :P”

“I suffer from CRAFT syndrome.”

“Fukido must be good, my school network won't show it.”

“I see you Bobo.

>:|”

“GRIN!!”

““Puberty.
Why didn't I think of that?


After many many years, I finally sought treatment.
I started with Effexor(sp?) 1.5 years ago, but it made me jittery. I switched to Zoloft, but results have been so-so.

I'm due for a refill, and have been considering Paxil or Prozac.

My Doc is open for experimentation seein's how the meds affect people differently.

Wow! Who'd ever thunk I'd actually get a doctors okey-dokey to experiment with drugs?!

God Bless America!”
gojo


Holy guacamole - that post was from four years ago. This has gone waaaaaaay farther than ever before. I'm really really really tired of this $hit.


Nothing has helped, so I stopped trying to combat it three years ago. I keep thinking I'll awaken to a new day, but every morning is the same old $hit.

I don't seek employment due to sporatic sleep patterns. I may get up at the crack of dawn one day, then the crack of noon the next.

I'm an emotional wreck.

I haven't bp'd in almost two years, yet I probably got more bag nights in that period than the next five TTers combined.

I've lost everything but my truck and dogs.

I'm homeless but for the generosity of friends and family, which fate has granted in great abundance. Still, a man's not a man til he stands on his own two feet.



Jesus freakin' Christ, I'm exhausted right aout now..............”

“aout=about”

“Depression is a life sucker. It sucks your life and the life of those around you. You have to want to get help before you will get help. I have batteled it for years...mainly after childbirth. The last time was 2 and a half years ago...I was so completely unhappy in my marriage and my life. I was either going to die..or get help. I finally decided I could no longer live like that. I got help. I started with the doctor and meds, then I went to counseling. Within 6 months I was off the meds again. I got better...stronger. I left my husband and started over. I am so much happier now than I have ever been. things are not perfect but I make my own decisions and I make my own mistakes. No one medicine is right for everyone. You do need to experiment. I have taken Zoloft, Paxil, Prozac, Serzone, and a couple others. They all basically worked for me but the Prozac gave me tremours..I didnt refil that one. You just need to see a doctor and get on something...They will help with the sleep patterns and hopefully you can get into a normal routine and get your life back. Depression is such a common thing these days. Some people think, as you said, that you will just wake up to a new day, be all clear or that you can just snap out of it. It just doesnt work that way. Your body gets out of wack and you need medication to make it right. Hopefully you wont have to take it forever, but it does help. Good Luck!!”

“Did you read anything I posted?
/o:
last edited: 1/10/07 12:35:09 PM”

“That really blows gojo.

Something has to help. All I can say is good luck.”

“Wow, Germani!
I'm feelig better already!”

“I have a close relative that takes Wellbutrin. I have been trying to get her to consider going to CT (cognitive therapy) because of all the research that has shown that CT combined with modern antidepressants is a very effective combination. I think the stigma of therapy still weighs heavily on some people and a pill sounds like an easy fix. For sure she does better on the Wellbutrin than on nothing at all, and I guess she says she has the least number/degree of side effects with this med.
last edited: 1/10/07 12:53:45 PM”

“Damn gojo. I don't know what else to say except I'll think of ya and pray for you and dogs. I agree with Jimmy about the therapist thing. I was on Wellbutrin and going to a counselor for quite a while for my smoking and it helped in other areas too. Just speaking your thoughts out loud to another person can help 100%.”

“gojo - I hate to read about you being in so much pain. I know how frustrating it is for people to just say "you just need the right combination of drugs...". They don't work for everybody. Hang in there, keep looking for that magic something that will help you. I know it is hard to keep depending on others but just figure that you are using some of the credit you have accumulated helping others out through the years.

I'm glad you have Sarabelle to keep an eye on you.”

“Counseling helped after my divorce in the 80's - I haven't ruled that out. My last doc, in fact, referred me a couple years ago, but I was unable to get back to town due to the ever accompanying gas shortages...

I'm seldom closer than ten miles from anywhere, so getting around with regularity is difficult. Cops frown on camping in town - heh!”

“Belle and Giz work wonders.

I was in pretty deep during Montanapaloosa. I wish I had't been. It caused me to miss some GREAT hiking and social lubrication. I don't mean to imply that I didn't have a good time, it's just that it coulda been sooooo much better!”

“damn - that was 4 1/2 years ago. where does the time go? You made the trip more fun for me, anyway.”

“I don't sleep well either. One (of many) reasons I stopped bringing a tent hiking. I either walk straight thru or rest for short periods.

I did 6 years on about 2 hours sleep a night & worked 100 plus hours a week.

Now I work midnights & sleep when ever.”

“Hold in there.

Trust your friends.

Don't let go.

God bless you.

Doug”

“Gojo - You (and Sarabelle) have brought so many smiles to my face over the years, I wish I had a way to give you a dose of joy equal to even half what I've had from your posts.

Hang in there and keep trying new things to deal with the depression. Sometimes it takes far too long to find the treatments that work - and the meds, the knowledge of how to use them, and the therapy techniques keep changing. They've even developed ways to do shock treatments that are far less harmful than the old ways (still that's a last resort).”

“Helluva rollercoaster.

I'll be 49 in two months. I seem to have a mondo surge akin to this one every few years - but nothing that has lingered so. I was doing rather well after high school, then fell down and broke everything I had. Then in my late twenties, then early thirties, then late thirties, then the forties episode that seems endless. It's been overcast for probably eight years now, with occasional sunny "sucker holes". Eight years. Holy crap.

I can't win for losing. I can achieve - been there yadda yadda - but I always lose everything due to this $hit.

Thank for the kind words, my friends. I'm just in a funk... letting off steam.”

“Gojo I feel for you. For me it's Christmas and winter that really put me in a blue hole. I don't know if it's the forced commercialism and merriment of the season or the grim reality of another gloomy winter.

But then I think, who am I to be complaining about winter? The winters here in upstate South Carolina are mild temp-wise. Compared to up north this place is great. There's no snow! But dammit, it rains all the time. Six inches in the last two weeks, 1.5" of them coming on last Thursday and Friday and 2.5" on Sunday! Uggh!!! ....alas I digress.

Nevertheless hang in there. Winter will turn. Sarabelle is still great fuzz therapy. And TT is still a good place to come and hang your hat. Somehow Spring will come and maybe this blue haze will drift away.
last edited: 1/10/07 7:41:46 PM”

“gojo, iv'e been on anitriplamine (elavil) for years to help with the migraines but had the side effect of what i believe was depression. it was hard being a working mom with two children and a hubby that worked shifts. hardly ever a migraine and i'm pretty up most of the time. have you tried volunteer work? sometimes helping others helps you feel better about yourself.”

“Hi Gojo. I know my words probably won't seem like much to you at this point, but I offer them to you anyway. I will pray for you. I know you don't know me, but since I live my life as open book I'll tell you this, I have battled depression since the age of nine. I've been low enough to attempt suicide more than. . . .times, and almost died. I've spent time in hospitals. I've self medicated; I am drug free now though, 14 1/2 years. It's a constant struggle, some years harder than others. I have learned over the years how to go for help, (instead of suicide), when it becomes larger than me. I do change anti-depressants periodically because apparently after several years they stop working. I am fighting the hard fight, most days are ok, several days are wonderful- mostly because I made the effort to go trekking somewhere, probably a third are so horrid I can barely get through without screaming into my pillow. It sounds trite, I know it does, but I keep on keeping on, telling myself that something better is around the corner. If you ever want to talk to me, just ask.

God Bless”

“Been dealing with depression for many years. Sounds like you're on MAOI's.

I've been on a combo of other meds--prescribed by a 'shrink'. That have worked for me. If you want details email me at marknielsen01 at gmail dot com.”

“Gojo may I ask you something. It's pretty important to me and I am feeling absolutly helpless here...
If someone is deep, deep down, how does it affect relationships to friends and family?

A friend of mine suddenly and very unexpectedly has withdrawn from keeping in touch with me. There seems to be absolutly no rational reason for this behaviour. From a lot of hints and comments he made, from my own observation of his behaviour I am almost sure he might suffer from depression. Depression deep enough to make me shiver and worry. Yet I can not know for sure.
I am not a f***ing stalker. I will let go of a friendship which has expired. But I want to be damned and cursed if I let down a friend in need.

I wish I would be able to see it from the other side. Then I might know what's right to do? Is friendship needed? Is it still welcome? Is it futile? Or is it something worse?”

“JoeyJoeyJoey! Hang in there, sweet one. You are loved by many. I hope you are able to sort it all out...I know it is not easy. I know.
”

“euro, speaking from experience, my brother is bipolar (manic depressive) and has completely withdrawn from the family for many years. Relationships suffer deeply and at a time when they are very important for support.”

“I've found that physical labor helps me.”

“Gojo, you are in my prayers. Maybe you should write a book from a first person/dog Sarabelle perspective.”

“WOW...Path I am going to have to back up what Jimmy said, I know that depression is painful, I have to deal with it with someone close EVERYDAY.
One of the greatest courses in LIFE I took was the POW Escape/Evasion/Survival school they taught us in College. We got to meet some REAL former POW's and learned that since the 1970's we have had to start redirecting our training. It is not enough to tell the guys..HOLD ON, since apparently the only body that has a view of the Geneva Convention is the US Congress and the ACLU.

The training centered on What is happening, REALLY what is happening, WHAT can you do (most often relax or do your best) and what can you do to take some control over it.

For many years I have had a problem just going to sleep, (um lets just say you close your eyes and stuff comes back) but I started using the progressive relaxation and (Jimmy you know the "term for this") creativly imagining a peaceful scene. For me it was a Hike in the Colorado Mountains, or write a book in my mind.
Did it help immediatly...no but over time I began getting a bit of a sense that I could override the wierd thoughts. Yeah I still get some flashback dreams, but you know they are less vivid than even 15 years ago, and I think I have gone almost a year without WAKING up in a cold sweat.

One other thing, find someone to help. You have some experience in SOMETHING find a support base go there learn/give hope....that works wonders.

OH and if you need to drop me an e-mail I will be glad to listen or talk as long as you need.

GOJO...YGM
last edited: 1/11/07 8:43:11 AM”

“Well bro, for the past few months, I could write the textbook on how you feel. I am not sure I know what to say other than I figured it's like this....

Life is sometimes like a long uphill hike, you just have to keep putting one boot in front of the other until you crest the b!tch.

I am very, very thankful for my friends. Dayhiker talked me off the ledge more than once. The list could go on and on here but there are people on this board whom I have never met who helped. DO NOT, and I repeat DO NOT hesitate to call, write or communicate with those those who offer to listen. Just getting some things out has been the best thing that happened to me.

No, sometimes life isn't fair. Yes, there are some people in life that get off on creating misery. Others don't give a damn about anything other than themselves...but...just like separating the wheat from the chaff, you have to deal with all of it and distance yourself from those people and things that generate negative energy.

If there is anything I can do, let me know. But do not think you are either alone or in a unique position unknown to others. Yes, misery may like company, but bro, the law of nature says there is safety in numbers.”

“Chili..you sound better...I am glad.”

“Well, it seems a lot of people here actively seek to talk with friends on TT or likeminded others, rather than withdraw from friends and shun them?”

“Withdrawing is the easyest thing to do, euro.
It's very hard for people in a deep depression to reach out to others.
If you care about that friend, reach out to him. He may resist, but it also may be what he needs.

Some here have learned to reach out.
last edited: 1/11/07 10:19:34 AM”

“XL, I have accepted things as they are. I didn't ask for it. I didn't want it. But someone decided to deliver it to me.

I reached the point that I had to hike on and leave the past where it is.”

“Another "symptom" of depression is the effect on others around the depressed person. It makes them feel depressed, therefore want to withdraw to feel better, because it is easier. Chili's testimony demonstrates the effectiveness of reaching out.”

“...uhm, yes, I like to reach out, but...!

You see, the whole situation makes me doubtful of my very own intentions. Sometimes even the best intentions can be bad. It is, as if my friend has run off into a far away dark, forest. He dug himself a deep whole under a big old root and that's where he is hiding now. I don't like to go into this forest, I don't like this dark cold place, it gives me nightmares. Each time I go to the forest and come by the big old root, I call down into his burrow: "hello?". Never would I dare to trespass any further as I am obviously not invited to do so. Sometimes, deep down, I may see eyes glowing in the dark, staring back at me. Never do I get a "hello" back.
When I leave the dark forest, I am confused, hurting and wondering whether it was a 'friendly' silence or an 'unfriendly'? Would it be a friendly 'hey, nice you're showing by, I am just not well enough to come out' sort of silence, I would come back next time. Would it be an unfriendly 'one step closer and I leash out' sort of silence I rather don't want to come back to this place.”

“Depression is as hard on the ones who care as it is on the one going thru it. It is so hard to know whether to stick around and be supportive or go and give them some space. It is hard to know whats the best way. I guess the best thing is to just make sure they know you are there for them whenever they are ready. It sucks to want to help and not be able to.”

“Why don't you bastages mind yer own business! LOL!


Euro -
I'm not a diagnostician by any stretch. But.......
You might wanna approach your bud. Lay it all on the table - ask questions. Sudden social withdrawl might indicate drug use. In fact, I suspect that by a few comments from others that there are those who suspect drugs as my problem. But nay! I am clean as a baby's bottom! No... I'm smooth as a baby's bottom. I'm clean as a whistle. I'm glad I got that straight. Regardless, go to him - and bring a lantern...


“I've found that physical labor helps me.”
~Stovey
That's *almost* all I've ever known. You work in an office? I believe labor is an inate desire for humans. That's why I hypothesize that white collar workers have better lawns than blue collar. They work outside to feed the need for physical sweat and toil, blue collars satisfy that on the job. I may be wrong, tho...... for once :)

AmyG - me widdle slutcake! I must say that my time with you in, errr... 1981? was most enjoyable! Great times with a Great American - I think and speak of you often, like while having Baileys and coffee with my nephew and his wife (she's from right across the Delaware in NJ, btw) over the holidays. Thank you for chiming in - it means alot to me.

Indeed, thanks to all of you for your encouraging words and offerings.

I'll be okay.”

“Yep, I drive a desk most days.
I was just saying what helps me and might can help others.
Nothing to put anyone down or anything like that was intended.”

“Gojo....if you need a get away let me know. I am over on the Eastern Border.”

“Euro hike, keep on being a voice in the darkness for your friend. He may not be able to reach out yet. But just knowing you are there is probably a comfort for him right now.”