Mutt vrs Ice Tea - Success thread

“This is a run of thread from Maple Leaf's repaired interview thread. I did this so I would not cloud up maple's thread with Mutt's hot air.

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Here is how the posts went
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"Not much you can do. They're going to know whether or not you're a contender in the first 5 minutes of the interview. At least, it's been that way when I've interviewed potential candidates."
Mutt
03:11:03 PM
02/07/03


"Coming in dressed appropriately for the job, with a pen, with a portfolio or notebook, with prepared questions, ON TIME, etc etc etc all builds an IMMEDIATE message.

Right, and that's the minimum. Pretty much anyone who walks in without these minimum preperations is not going to be the one I hire. It'll be a combination of your experience, your career direction, and your personality that'll get you the job."
Mutt
03:20:58 PM
02/07/03

RESEARCH!!!!!
"Research where you are going, find out exactly what you are applying for and learn how you can help them. If you don't know what you have to offer to them, you better find out real fast or find another job. Studdy the the company, history and other stuff. Learn the company.



Dress aproperatly. Find out what people in the department you will be working in wear every day, then wear that to you interview. It is fare better when the company is reviewing your application and your interview and they can't remeber what you where wearing, because you fit in so well, than to over dress or underdress and stick out like a KKK guy at a blackpanther rally.



Confidance is not aregance. I don't think you have a problem with arrogance, but you may with confidance. The easy way to feel confidant is to do you research. If you know the company, and your attier is fitting with the setting, along with you truelly believe that you belong with the company then you will be confidant. --- Similer to me taking a history finnal that I studdied for, compared to the one I played vidio games the night before. When I studdy I am a cocky basterd, but I usaly get everything right.



Visulize.. Visulise the contract with your name on it. See the final hand shake after they tell you that you are hired. Visulise it all, visulise every question and your responses to them. It has been proven that athlets and salesment that visulize success usaly make the sale or the shot. Just like astronots. THey never really know what the crust of a new plannet will look like till they get there, but the try to imagin it as best as possable. When the day comes, it is just like the astronots practiced. (this metefore negates columbia and the are dead because of low funding, not because they did not visulize)



Desire the possition, become obsesive, imagin the days of work ahead of you.



Faith, belive you will get what you want. "Whatever the mind of man can conceive and believe it can achieve" -Napoleon Hill, the master of education of success.



***

Maple, you just got some of the greatest advise I can give you. Yet it did not come from my mind, only my hand that typed it. Those thoughts and passages of advise are paraphrasing of many motivational and self help books, that I have read. If you truely want to be successfully I highly recomend reading "think and grow rich" by Napoleon Hill. If you think I am a 17 year old fool, I challenge you to type Napoleon Hill Biography, into a search engin and read what you find.



Now my own thoughts on life that are inspired by authers like Hill, Waitly, Tracy, Kiyosaki and many other authors (the rest are all from Harvard so you know they are smart).



You only get what you put into life. Sir Issac Nuton was a smart man. He discovered a formula for physics, but it was truly the formula for life. His studdies of mechanical Advantage and engery show to us that can only get what you put into the tool. People like Waitly, Tracy, and Hill show us that this is allso true in life. If you take the time to research your prospective work site, and your time and effort will pay off. If you expect something for nothing you will never succeed. I stongy recomend reseach.







Maple, I do not wish you good luck like other people on this board will, for I believe that if you take my advise, luck will have nothing to do with acceptance to your new carear. If you get the job, it is because you where diserving, persistant, determaind, and had faith, not because of luck. Luck is the foundation the losers build their house on, winners build their house on a foundation of skill, education persistance, faith, determination, desire, and decision. Ever see a rich guy play the lotto, NO, because he makes his money from his skill, not luck. Ever see a guy who won millions from the lotto, if you saw him 10 years later he will have nothing (most likely). If you research and are of worth to the company you will get your job. Have fun""
Ice Tea
03:17:38 PM
02/07/03
"

Ice Tea
03:21:34 PM
02/07/03

I didn't proof read that, but don't let that...
"... disregard my information. I gave you hundress of dollars of books in knowledge in one post with many spelling errors."
Ice Tea
03:26:32 PM
02/07/03

"Faith ain't going to get you the job. Might as well rely on luck."
Mutt
03:29:47 PM
02/07/03

"Mutt, you are a loser. Luck will get you no where. If she is to get the job, she will have faith in her self, AKA confidance. Maple, don't be a loser. Be a winner."
Ice Tea
03:32:51 PM
02/07/03

"Ice Tea, you're naive. Luck plays a large part in getting any particular job - everything else being equal. Now that I see you mean faith in yourself rather than a spiritual faith, you redeem yourself slightly. But what you're recommending is just common sense - know the organization, be confident, dress appropriately, etc, etc. This kind of advice is free on the Internet. Don't insult Mapleleaf by assuming she's too ignorant to know the basics."
Mutt
03:38:15 PM
02/07/03


Mutt, you are a loser, and you are spinning my adv
"*Advice.

Mutt, don't be a fÜCKING IDIOT. You show me one cedable author who says faith in self and religion has nothing to do with you success and I will be quite. Yet since know that what I have said is rock solid truth, I challenge you. See the "Mutt vrs Ice Tea - Success thread". We will debate there, so Maple does not have to filter through our spilt blood.

Maple, thanks for the compliment. Mutt, says it is commence but when I read books on how to negotiate and make money it is so freaking simple, but it truely is not commen knowledge, or it is so obvius tha tyou never think of it."
Ice Tea
03:48:21 PM
02/07/03”

“I've got 8 on my book shelf that are ready for debate!”

“""Forget it Ice Tea - you're not interesting enough to debate."
Mutt
03:56:25 PM
02/07/03"

is that because no one will suport you dumb a$$ idea”

“Ice Tea, I'm 2 minutes from leaving from work. Maybe someone else will argue with you.”

“I'll be waiting for you when you get home. Sign on and lets go.”

“Look at your adolescent tantrums. I'm just not interested. Maybe later. Good night!”

“"you're not interesting enough "

This my friends is typical liberail spin.

Clinton did it all the time and so did gore.

When they are backed into the corner with no facts left in their deck of cards they do one of two:

Pull the race card or

Resort to personal attacks.

Mutt has chosen personal attacks. This my friend is a sign that I have won the debate.”

“Mutt has chosen personal attacks.

If you look at your first post, you resorted to ad hom first, smart guy: Mutt, you are a loser

lol. I don't know why I'm staying late for this.”

“Mutt, what ever the out come...Assuming you come back, this is a friendly debate, I have no real hatered for you.”

“fair enough, ice tea. We'll argue this later.”

“tea obviously has no respect for beer:30”

“Holy success story Batman!!! I'm glad I'm home sick from work just to see this. Can we archive this in the TT classics so that someone can un-earth it when Ice-Tea becomes president?
I'll give you this, Tea. You are one persistent dude. You and Micah, LNT=LDH, are two of the biggest proseletyzers on this site. Thanks for lightening up my Friday, man.”

“Sounds like they're gonna head outside to the parking lot.”

“The phrase "spilt blood" might be hard to deal with in your first political campaign, Tea. Think about your future when you argue on the internet. We need more right-wingers like you in the White House.”

“Hmmm.. imagine hiking with these two...”

“I can defend that quote like General Domstom in kuwait.

That is rite I called you a loser. The definition of loser that I used comes from the book "the phycology of winning" by Denis Waitly. He calls losers, people who have low thoughts of them selves, unproductive, arogant, and not open to new ideas. You fit that discription. Therefore...”

“I've got boy scouts to go to. Actualy dinner with a friend then to BSA.

TTYL

Dundan, I have thought about my posts coming back to kill me, but that would mean that TT would be up for 18 more years. Do you really think that will happen? I hope so, but not too likely. In that case I will pay Matt to remove all my post from the past.”

“A little book for those of use who refuse to read Dennis Waitley...

from Paul Meier...”

“Tea - Don't forget the lesson of Jerry Thacker. ----> Google in color: Google caches pages for future reference.”

“Carnagie, Dale that is!”

“Tea - Don't forget the lesson of Jerry Thacker. ----> Google in color: Google caches pages for future reference.”

“Give him a break, Tea. Mutt is an important man. He doesn't have time to surf the web on his own time.

This debate will continue at 08:30 tomorrow. On company time.”

“holy crap batman, DID I DO THIS???


mapleleaf”

“Bacpac: The nightstalker.”

“I think you meant "The Psychology of Spelling Correctly" don't you, Tea?”

“LMAO @ this thread!

BY all means, continue.”

“Tea,
It sounds as though Mutt is experienced in hiring people. He may just have first-hand knowledge. The impressions of someone charged with hiring others may out-weigh the ramblings of a teen with tomes.
I've been well prepared for several interviews, neatly attired, personable, confident. I've left them all sure that I "nailed it," only to find that the position had already been filled and the Org was only going through some kind of "motions" so it appeared to be a fair hiring of some-one with an inside-track. Being at the right place at the right time (luck, if you will) is possibly the deciding factor.”

“"fortune favors the prepared mind"”

“You want Fried Rice with that?”

“easy on the msg....”

“Fortune flavored fried mind?”

“Maybe that is how things have happen in your life, but you should never depend on luck.”

“Honestly, Ice Tea, it's more about putting yourself in a position where you are best able to take advantage of opportunities.

Luck plays a part in everything you do. You may believe that you control what happens to you, but that's just because you're inexperienced. Sometimes things just happen, whether you've planned on them or not and whether you've prepared for them or not.”

“I'd rather have luck than skill anyday! I'll illustrate... You play basketball and shoot 95% from the free-throw line. Your team trails by one with .2 seconds left on the clock when you are fouled; going to the line to shoot two. You've had an incredible game so far, been to the line 38 times and sank 'em all. You are truly skilled. You clank the last two off the rim and out. Your team loses.
Scenario two; the other team just scores a basket with time running out, you now trail by one and quickly call time out. Theres less than 1 second on the clock, not enough time to catch an in-bound pass and shoot. Your teammate fires the ball in-bounds and you jump up and redirect his pass towards the basket. It goes in.
Fiction yes, but by definition having luck means it works out for the best. Skill just means being practiced and having a greater chance of lady luck recognizing you.”

“make that fortune flavors the fried mind?”

“Fourteen flavors, and they're all mine.”

“The mind is a terrible thing to taste.”

“Your are screwed if you live off of luck.”

“Well DUH!

Counting on luck to do something for you is silly. Discounting luck altogether is equally as silly, and could lead people to label you as arrogant. No one is in complete control of what happens in their lives.

You'll learn that eventually.”

“Ice Tea, I know you're a teenager, and not to disregard your perspective on that fact alone, I seriously doubt you've had much contact yet with the realities of professional life. At least nothing you've yet posted has contraindicated my assumption on this.

I have, against my will, been forced to serve on several different search committees. For my own department, I've been the lead interviewer two times now. Now, I'm not trying to make an emotional appeal based on my authority or experience at this, but I can tell you in an anecdotal sense what I have seen to be true regarding interviewing.

I should start by saying that these charismatic authors who claim to have the definitive, cutting edge method of interviewing are on the same gutteral level as pop-culture diet gurus, excercise gurus, and spiritual gurus. THERE IS NO SCIENCE OF INTERVIEWING. Does that make sense? Your books you spent hundreds of dollars on are just eloquent (hopefully) descriptions of opinion. They are, in fact, not demonstrably better or worse than my or anyone else's opinion on the matter.

Now here's my perspective: Any one method you choose to prepare for an interview will perhaps be attractive to only a particular subset of interviewers. And here's where luck comes in to play: you've read tons of (crap) material on interviewing, and you have your style set pat. Well, you're only going to be successful to those interviewers who agree your style is a winning combinations of attributes. In other words, it's a crapshoot for who interviews you. For example, I've interviewed some very skilled interviewees who were very well rehearsed in their presentation, and they weren't impressive to me. Why? Because all I could gain from that interview is that the person was talented at role-playing. Great, that may have some utility, but what are they truly like after you get to know them? Much more important to me than their skill in interviewing is their true personality: are they going to fit into the office culture? Would they be communicative with the type of people we already have working here? (again, luck playing a big role here) Other people I've served with on the search committees were, however, impressed by the ability of the interviewee to play the role of interviewee to a "T". Personal preference!

It's a very simple point I'm making: luck plays a big part in your chances of being hired. Different interviewers are looking for different qualities, and you'll never know a priori what they're looking for.

Have faith all you want, but faith (outside of giving you a basic level of confidence in such a situation) is just a personal plea for luck to be in your favor. The only thing an interviewee can do is follow common sense: dress appropriately, show up on time, research the company, be relaxed, etc, etc. - and all these techiniques can be found for free on the Internet.”

“BTW, I'm speaking soley of cold interviews, in which you have no personal or professional contacts within the organization.

Obviously, one of the biggest determinant factors in life is who you know - not what you know.”

“did someone mention food”

“I like to beleive that I have complete and total controll over my life. I do not do things on a whim, nor off the cuff. Everything I do is well prepared (except TT posting) and efficent. I have no time for luck. I do have time for preporation so I do not need luck.

Although I do understand you point, that it is luck if you wined up with an interview that is on the same wave length as your self.

This is all well and good, Mutt, but if you have the knowledge that I have you would know that it is your job as a comunicator to express your point so clear, and make sure the opposition understands you, and at the same time get on the same wave length. What you call luck I call preporation, and if you are paying enough attention to the other person you will listen to your 6th sence and know how to play them.

"Many people believe that material success is the result of favorable "breaks." There is an element of groun for the belief, but those depending entirely upon luck are nearly always disappointed, because they overlook another important factor which must be present before one can be sure of success. It is the knowledge with which favorable "breaks" can be made to order...
...The only "break " anyone can afford to rely upon is a selfmade "break". These only come through the application of persistance. The starting point is definiteness of purpose." -Napoleon Hill”

“if you have the knowledge that I have you would know that it is your job as a comunicator to express your point so clear, and make sure the opposition understands you, and at the same time get on the same wave length.

It sounds as though the perfect interviewee must be completely self-actualized and supremely insightful and confident. Oh yes, very realistic, particularly for those people who are reduced to buyin these kinds of self-help books.

But actually, this brings to light a point I failed to make in my previous post: practice is the only form of preparation that makes a difference. Interview, interview, interview. That's the only way you're going to learn to be insightful and adaptable to different people.

So far, the need for luck has not been adequately refuted.

The only "break " anyone can afford to rely upon is a selfmade "break". These only come through the application of persistance. The starting point is definiteness of purpose

I love this. I wish I were so talented at giving such nebulous advice. Truly the pop-media guru is the job to have.”

“Sure insult Mr. Hill.

Resort to personal attacks.

Hill, was taught by the great Andrew Carnigie.




I do agree practice helps alot. Visulizing is practice allso. Every interview I go on for college I get better and better at them, and I feel more confidant at each one.”

“Was that you I interviewed with? :-)

I am currently interviewing for a job and my experience supports what Mutt has said.”

“And good luck to ya, stumprider ;-)

Tea... pray to God they don't give you a spelling test or all the self-help books in the world aren't gonna help

and Mutt... What would this word be? "contraindicated" Does that have something to do with the Contras??? I think it's a word in the medical profession, which perhaps you're in, Mutt? But the editor in me thinks you meant "contradicted" above...... so you work on your word usage, too.

Sorry, had to put a temporary spelling kabosh on the fun. And I am enjoying this!!! LOL!”

“and Mutt... What would this word be? "contraindicated" Does that have something to do with the Contras??? I think it's a word in the medical profession, which perhaps you're in, Mutt? But the editor in me thinks you meant "contradicted" above...... so you work on your word usage, too.

Um, lizs, contraindicate means to show something is inadvisable, and it's not solely a medical term. Here's what I posted:

I seriously doubt you've had much contact yet with the realities of professional life. At least nothing you've yet posted has contraindicated my assumption on this.

You see, nothing has made this assumption inadvisable.

Correct usage, unless you are intent on enforcing the archaic context of the word.”