Tax cuts for the Rich

““Nigal, is what you're suggesting American preFDR?”

It's basically the libertarian platform for a just and equitable America based on what it was meant to be. IMHO of course.”

“Did you know that since FDR the recessions have been shorter and shallower and the expansions have been higher and longer than before FDR?”

“I hear the sell of laptops is up since FDR also.”

“That's true too.
Do you think there's a connection?”

“Yes. FDR helped to decrease regulation on the pornography business, and we all know what computers are primarily used for.”

“I've had it with wingers!”

“and we all know what computers are primarily used for.”
SARGEantSlaughter

Creativity and bookkeeping? (AND not in)

But now we know where your mind is Sarge. 8^)
Sorry, couldn't pass that easy one up.
last edited: 10/16/05 3:56:59 PM”

“This whole thread reveoles around the
"assumption" that I am prejudiced and/or a racist.

WHERE is the thread that substantiates that?

Next question... per PedXing: "After all, Wanderer launched the first personal attack on that thread and Violin escalated."

BULLSHT// I launched no attack. I challenge you to prove it, or APOLOGIZE!

I am really tired of all the "assumtions" that so many take as "proof".

Show it, or stuff it, as the saying goes!”

“Bump.

So... where is the proof against me? I'm waiting... Ican't respond to vaporware!”

“I believe they have you confused with another Californian named Wanderer. Violin is often wrong when he's not mistaken.”

“LOLOLOLOOL

Nigel, you made my day!”

“CA Wanderer...have we hiked together?”

“CA Wander, Nigal, please, get a room, and be sure to do it in a state that allows sodomy, or become religious leaders, whicher is easiest for the both of you.”

“Hi Buddha! :)”

“Warren Buffet (2nd richest man in US) with Bill Gates (richest man in the US):

On the idea of a flat tax:

I wouldn’t support it. We have, in my view, a taxation system that’s much too flat already. If you look at the payroll tax—which is over 12% now, and that applies on the first $80,000 or $90,000 of income—Bill and I pay practically none of that in relation to our income. For the people that work for us, their tax rate in many cases is the same or even higher than my own, since the rate on capital gains and dividends was cut to 15%. What has gone on in this country in recent years is a huge benefit to the very rich and not that much relief to people down below. Frankly, I think that Bill and I should have a higher tax rate on the income we get. We pay less than half the rate that I was paying 25 years ago when I was making a lot less money. They have really taken care of the rich.

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/technology/articles/0,15114,1118009,00.html



#&%!$ing commie bastard.
last edited: 10/25/05 11:31:08 AM”

“More class envy and poppycock.”

“I don't think it is class envy. I think it is a man who sees something is wrong when he pays less taxes than some of his employees who make a hell of a lot less than he does.”

“Nigal is retarded.”

“Anyone who would possible disagree with VioLiN is retarded.”

“I agree.”

““I don't think it is class envy. I think it is a man who sees something is wrong when he pays less taxes than some of his employees who make a hell of a lot less than he does.”

No it's Violin trying to call what we have today a flat tax. It's not a flat tax and it's nothing like a flat tax. The whole noble Robin Hood "Take from the rich and goev to the poor" crap may be sexy but I think it's even sexier to be able to keep what you make and pay the same PERCENTAGE as everyone else.”

“Nigal, how would you tax expense accounts, country club memberships, rides in the company jet, stock options and the other bennies upper management gets?”

““Nigal, how would you tax expense accounts, country club memberships, rides in the company jet, stock options and the other bennies upper management gets?”

No tax right offs or deductions for anyone.”

“Navi you're *assuming* some things that just aren't always the case. Examples:

1. I have an expense account since I travel a great deal. However I can promise you I lose $$ all the time, there are just incurred expenses that you forget about, don't get reciepts for (or lose!), etc., that add up to a fair amount of $$.
2. Country Club Memberships are pretty rare these days. There are times, though, when they may be legitimate if they're used for entertaining prospects / clients. It's a cost of doing business, unfortunately. Is it abused? Of course, everything you can name is abused to some extent.
3. Rides in the comnpany jet can be a lot cheaper than commercial airline tickets. If you have a number of people who have to travel to point A from Point B, and do it somewhat frequently, it may be cheaper to buy your own jet than continue to pay the airlines. No big deal here.
4. Stock Options are simply another form of compensation. In my case, my company has NO retirement plan, I get no life-long pension, but I do get some stock options. One could argue these are less expensive that the "pay forever" benefits that the unions have required which are currently driving companies such as GM into bankruptcy.

In summary, those items you listed have noithing to do whatsoever with "tax cuts for the rich."”

“No tax right offs or deductions for anyone.”
FrankeNigal
So business' won't be able to offset gross profits with expenses?”

“wanderer2 the subject at hand was "Flat Tax".
I was not assuming anything. I too have an expense account that I've gone into the hole with. I've also been to dinners for "US" that added nothing to the bottom line.
Entertainment is a legitimate expense but trips to the topless bars with no customer in sight is not business entertainment.
You catch my drift.
The question remains, how would you tax corp. bennies in a Flat Tax system?”

“Good bye hotels,airlines”

“I'm sorry Nigal. I thought you were fooling around. You seem to have misunderstood.

My post was a quote from Warren Buffet, a man worth something like $40 billion who says that our present tax system is "much too flat already" and thinks the rich have been favored at the expense of the middle class. He's including the effects of the withholding tax in his analysis.”

“And you posted it to further his views. Don't play the, "Hey I was just posting what he said. I don't have any thoughts of my own." gig.
last edited: 10/26/05 7:52:38 AM”

“Here's what I love...

There is this Congressional commission that just proposed ending the ability to deduct college tuition expenses and mortgage interest.

And it's, of course, done in the name of flat taxation and simplification.

And that sounds really good.

Well, that's really just another way to get a TAX INCREASE without having to call it that.

So, here's the deal. Every time a Republican says "I want a flat tax" replace the words "flat tax" with "TAX INCREASE."

It will make this debate a whole lot more truthful.”

“In response to Nigal's post:


Well no…

I happen to believe strongly in a progressive system of taxation. 1% of a millionaire’s income isn’t life changing. 1% of someone’s income who makes six figures or more is discretionary income. 1% of someone’s income that makes $25,000, are shoes for the kids, food, medicine, etc.

I also greatly admire Warren Buffet. He’s a smart man who has gotten very wealthy through hard work and taking chances. I agree with his views on the shape of the American dream.
last edited: 10/26/05 9:32:42 AM”

“Please know that I do not advocate the rich not paying taxes or even getting a bunch of breaks. I would like to see equitable taxes for everyone. So, having said that if we look at the 2005 tax table we see someone making $730 but not more than $29,700 is paying a rate of 15% and the amount they pay in taxes is roughly $730. Now, go clear to the other end and we find those who make between $326,450 and up is paying 35%. That’s a minimum of 94,727.50 in taxes.

This is not equitable. And to make it sound like the $25,000 earner is choosing between shoes and food for the kids because they paid $730 in taxes while the rich seemingly are paying next to nothing is less than honest and at the very least it’s propagandist.


To me the very idea that the top 1% should carry so much of the tax burden (what, like 70%+?) for no other reason than they have earned it and been successful goes against the very idea of the American dream. It is penalizing for hard work and successes.”

“RL, I don't think they are taking away the mortgage interest deduction (even though that is what I first thought), they are putting a limit on it. Violin posted a link about it on another thread
last edited: 10/26/05 9:52:27 AM”

““RL, I don't think they are taking away the mortgage interest deduction (even though that is what I first thought), they are putting a limit on it. Violin posted a link about it on another thread”

I have heard that Bush’s plan for simplifying the tax code is to do away with these two write offs and poles have shown that people are saying they’d be willing to give these write offs up for a simpler code. How damn dumb can ya get? If you remove write offs ya damn well better be dropping the tax rates too.”

“But Nigal - you are ignoring witholding taxes for SS, Medicare and unemployment. That was Buffet's point.
last edited: 10/26/05 10:06:22 AM”

“hell no I won't give up my mortgage interest..I just bought a house.

I wonder how many people buy a house just for the tax deduction. If you can't get one why even bother to buy a house. Stay in an apt and let someone else worry about the upkeep of it.
last edited: 10/26/05 10:20:37 AM”

“What, these somehow go by a different scale or something and there is some type of big break that all the rich people get off with in SS, Medicare and unemployment? Does the $25,000 payee get binged the same amount as a person making $326,450? And are we suggesting that the section of the population that uses these three services the MOST should not have to pay into them equitably?”

““I wonder how many people buy a house just for the tax deduction. If you can't get one why even bother to buy a house. Stay in an apt and let someone else worry about the upkeep of it.”

Around here where we get bent over royally on our property taxes I don’t think the write off would be worth it. That’s the other thing I’d like to see changed is having ALL of the population of my town paying in taxes rather than just the home owners.”

“I know there is already a cap on student loans, because I already deduct (the only deduction I can take) the max I can, which doesn't amount to very much. I wish I could deduct the full amount of interest I pay, because I’d get back almost twice what I get now.”

“dang, I forgot about property taxes being a write off

Are the people/companies who own apt complexes, duplexes not paying property taxes? If they are why should the person renting it out have to pay since he doesn't own it.
last edited: 10/26/05 10:30:25 AM”

“Hey zac, you can thank Clinton for the write-off that you have. He got it for ya. It didn't exists when I had loans. :(”

“Renters inadvertently pay taxes because it is a cost of the landlord that is passed on to the renter. duh.”

“Yes Nigal - there is cap on the amount of income that is subject to SS taxes - currently around $90,000.”

“OK, and...

So does everyone pay the same amount then? Is the rich guy paying the same as the poor guy or is it based on income?”

““Renters inadvertently pay taxes because it is a cost of the landlord that is passed on to the renter. duh.”

Shhh Visor Boy. The adults are talking right now...”

“The person making $9,000,000 pays the same SS as the person making $90,000.”

“if we look at the 2005 tax table we see someone making $730 but not more than $29,700 is paying a rate of 15% and the amount they pay in taxes is roughly $730. Now, go clear to the other end and we find those who make between $326,450 and up is paying 35%. That’s a minimum of 94,727.50 in taxes.

This is not equitable. And to make it sound like the $25,000 earner is choosing between shoes and food for the kids because they paid $730 in taxes while the rich seemingly are paying next to nothing is less than honest and at the very least it’s propagandist.


FrankeNigal

After the rich guy in your example got done paying the skilled tax accountant, how much did he actually pay? I'll bet it wasn't even close to 35%.”

“"After the rich guy in your example got done paying the skilled tax accountant, how much did he actually pay? I'll bet it wasn't even close to 35%.”

You're beating a dead horse Navi. As I stated above I don't think there should even BE tax write offs. That was the base tax table.”

““The person making $9,000,000 pays the same SS as the person making $90,000.”

I think we can both agree on this point that if you aren't going to flat tax it all it should all be a sliding scale dependant on your income.”

“Do you mean an Income Tax, the pecentage based on income, with no deductions? Like you made 20k you pay 10%, you made 50k you pay 15%, you made 10 bazillion you pay 20%.
If that's what you mean, sign me up, we're on the same page.



Now you do realize that if that were to happen the IRS would become a revenue collection agency instead of a government policy agency? 8^)”