Tax cuts for the Rich

““The person making $9,000,000 pays the same SS as the person making $90,000.”
VioLiN
10:44:45 AM
10/26/05

SS is a tax. Not an intitlement. This is what I was taught in a retirement class a couple of weeks ago.
That millionare is also going to receive about the same dollar amount of SS money at 66 as the guy making $90K is.”

“I’m not sure but I think there may be agreement on a political issue on TT.

Welp… I’m going home to say goodbye to my babies. The world is about to end.”

““Do you mean an Income Tax, the pecentage based on income, with no deductions? Like you made 20k you pay 10%, you made 50k you pay 15%, you made 10 bazillion you pay 20%."

No. I mean like Mr. $25,000 a year pays the same percentage as Mr. $9,000,000.”

“SS retire today at 62 yo.

30K yr = $687 mt $8,244 yr
40K yr = $823 mt $9,876 yr
60K yr = $1095 mt $13,140 yr
90K yr = $1345 mt $16,140 yr
100K yr = $1401 mt $16,812 yr
400K yr = $1477 mt $17,724 yr
9,000K yr = $1477 mt $17,724 yr

Read it and weep folks.
That's what SS is gonna 'retire' you on!
Better up that saving %.”

“Stove, not saying what you posted is wrong but I am looking at my 2002 yr end statement that the SSA sends me. Based on me retiring at 62 my income per month is higher than the numbers you have posted. Yeah I know I can't live off that unless I live in a shelter on the AT. I think most people realize you can't live off Social Security.

What do you think about people who have never worked but get Social Security.
last edited: 10/26/05 3:09:19 PM”

“Ewker, that's if one was 62 and retired today.
The SS is planing on you retiring when you hit 62.
It's about 20% higher when you wait till 66. But I would rather draw my 80% for 4 years than wait till 66, and who knows how much longer I'm going to live. When I die, my $ ends.
last edited: 10/26/05 3:16:13 PM”

“The point I was making is that there is little difference between the guy that makes 60K and 600K a year based on what you get back at retirement..”

“That Quick calculator makes pretty assumptions about your wages. You input your current year's earnings and it estimates your past earnings. Chances are, it will be way off. Your statement from SS is based upon your actual earnings history.
last edited: 10/26/05 3:21:02 PM”

“True, that's why it's called the Quick cal., but the firgures aren't going to be much different.
Still, y'all NEED to start saving your money!”

“ok, I am with you..I misunderstood what you said.

I had a friend who retired at 62. He was so looking forward to retirement then he dies the next yr. It really makes you think about retiring early.

With me just buying this house I may never get to retire plus my ex got half of my retirement..that #&%!$”

“That calculator also doesn't take into consideration how much you spend on booz and titty bars SS. LOL!”

“The figures can certainly be far different Stove. I put in my birthdate and current earnings. It vastly underestimated my earnings history.


For my next trick I will determine the size of the support that bridge needs using an online calculator.”

“With some of us, saving is not an easy task these days, witht he cost of living going through the roof. My raise in my natural gas bill alone has exceeded the raise I got this year. Raising kids isn't getting any cheaper either...”

“SS is basically a redistribution tax, but that's not necessary a bad thing. I don't think we'd all want a bunch of poor old people rumaging through our trash to find food.

Sliding scales are the basis of a fair taxation system. To each their abolity to pay. You guys keep seeing taxes from a personal level, maybe you gotto see it more as helping to create a society which you can live happily in and keep America on top of the world - to pay for good education to create the jobs to keep the finances good enough to pay your pensions and keep your investments increasing in value - to keep America safe from overseas threats.

You don't seem to be able to equate the fact that with a flat tax the base rate is going to have to increase. Most people will actually pay more.

Having said that the US tax system is ludicrously complex and benefits those who can afford the best accountants.”

“You don't seem to be able to equate the fact that with a flat tax the base rate is going to have to increase. Most people will actually pay more. - Y2

I do realize that and have little problem with it.
Peeps will go from paying zero to paying some.
I do not feel the need to buy booze and drugs for school dropouts and people that will not work if given the chance.”

“How difficult is it really for most people to do their taxes? I do mine and my dad's every year. I read up on all the laws in the fall and then the same thing in the spring. Then, it's pretty easy. Try it sometime.

The tax code helps to create incentives for behaviors that are good for society. Will we get rid of the tax break on the Roth IRA in a flat tax system? Will we get rid of the tax breaks for servicemen and women in Iraq? Should we bring the capital gains tax into equality with the rate on ordinary income? What about the tax breaks on cafeteria health plans or HSAs or child care?

This flat tax would be an incredibly BAD idea. And it will NEVER HAPPEN. Forget Democratic opposition on the issue. Republicans will never let it see the light of day.

It is just another one of those golden little Republican ideas that the GOP natters on about but would never, ever actually do anything about - like abortion and deficit spending.

Paper tigers.”

“CBS and NBC on Wednesday night painted the tax cut extensions passed by the House through a liberal prism, relaying liberal spin meant to portray the cuts as unfair by citing the dollar amounts of expected cuts for the rich versus those earning lower incomes, without any regard for how an incredible 41 percent pay no income tax and so can't get a tax cut while the wealthier pay huge dollar amounts and so even a small percentage reduction represents a big dollar number. CBS's Sharyl Attkisson put on screen, without any attribution, how "for incomes of $50,000 or less, you'll average no more than $46 in savings. Up to $100,000, average is no more than 400 bucks saved. $100,000 to a million saves anywhere from about $1,300 to a little more than $5,500. Over a million, your savings will average nearly $42,000 a year."

http://www.mrc.org/cyberalerts/2006/cyb20060511.asp#1”

“Who benefits most from huge deficit spending?”

“Nobody. We should cut spending.”

“Libs love to tax and spend then put the tax burden on the rich. Neocons love to borrow and spend then put the tax burden on our children. One thing for certain is the current administration loves to spend like no other before. Before this administration took over the debt clock started ever so slowly to run backwards. Check out this chart.

http://www.lafn.org/politics/gvdc/Natl_Debt_Chart.html”

“The spending of the Republicans (and Democrats) under Bush's watch are out of control. We agree on that Bateauxdriver. But two wrongs don't make a right (to excessively tax).
last edited: 5/11/06 12:12:56 PM”

“Sarge if we would excessively tax everyone and outlaw borrowing, maybe just maybe their would be a spending revolt! I'm sure everyone agrees that spending is out of control. The credit card bill is due, time to pay.”

“Most of the big spending goes to corps for contracts that do nothing productive except
feeding the rich through stock holding.”

“LOL!!”

“Again fear and the use of it to start another 'WAR ON', for the sake of the idle rich and let trickle down flow to bring in more illies to suck up the residue. All the bonds to pay for this are from profits from the Chinese making Wally crap, which is ofcourse bottom side money.”

“The voter needs veto powers.”

“The lava lamp be with you. When the entire congress replaces troops in Iraq and the medics run at the sound of of trouble will this country stop spending more than it's working turnips will produce. The idea that revenues can keep up with spending was based on RE over the last three years. Much of that has exclusion as primary 2 year residence. The war against wages(% rates) will take out the RE soon. WEDs 25 basis hike will exacerbate the high oil prices in a preempted strike against those already to their knees.”

“THE SALEBORED-TO-RUSSIAN-TO-ENGLISH TRANSLATION MACHINE
you decide which makes more sense ...

SALEBORED:
The lava lamp be with you. When the entire congress replaces troops in Iraq and the medics run at the sound of of trouble will this country stop spending more than it's working turnips will produce. The idea that revenues can keep up with spending was based on RE over the last three years. Much of that has exclusion as primary 2 year residence. The war against wages(% rates) will take out the RE soon. WEDs 25 basis hike will exacerbate the high oil prices in a preempted strike against those already to their knees.

RUSSIAN:
Лампа лавы, быть с Вами. Когда весь конгресс заменяет войска в Ираке, и санитары, которыми управляют в звуке неприятности будут это остановка страны, тратя больше, чем это работает, репы произведут. Идея, что доходы могут не отставать от расходов, была основана на вещественном числе за прошлые три года. Большая часть этого имеет исключение как первичное 2-летнее место жительства. Война против заработной платы (нормы %) вынет вещественное число скоро. WEDs 25 экскурсий основания усилит высокие цены на нефть в выгруженном ударе тех против уже к их коленям.

ENGLISH:
The lamp of a lava to be with you. When all congress replaces armies in Iraq, and hospital attendants whom operate in a sound of trouble will be it a stop of the country, spending it is more, than it works, turnips will make. Idea, that incomes can not lag behind charges, has been based on material number for the last three years. The Most part of it has exception as a primary 2-years residence. War against wages (norm of %) will take out material number soon. WEDs 25 excursions of the basis will strengthen the high prices for oil in the unloaded impact of those against already to them kolen'am.”

“Sarge, the wrong man(Bernanke)was picked to head the FEd. Alan greenspan would be needed to decipher the above.”

“Thanks Hamlet.”

“LSHIF! Oh man, that is good.”

“It's bean fun, see yah afta the floodsbloods.”

“I wonder what the EVIL rich do with their money?

HMM invest....oh so business can grow...hire people...so that they can get MORE money....

yeah I remember this poor Free Money moocher who hired me a few years ago...wait, he couldn't hire me HE WAS A FREAKING IDIOT...and he was BROKE.

When you get through it..remember the government waste is a primary reason we have some large deficits. Let more people spend their money on what THEY need. If all the money in the world were redistributed evenly, in 10 years the rich people would be rich again, the poor people would be poor again.”

“XceLlent ,let's get rid of gov.and have real capitalism. With your redistribution, one man will have all within a year. But, you or I might just be the one. SOLD!!!”

“My clients certainly have reaped the benefits.

One of my retired couples with combined investment portfolios of 4.5 million saved $80,000 the first year of the cut. the amount they save in any given year varies depending on the amount of capital gains realized . .. but boy, its been a windfall for them.


They are typical of my client base. Older, ealthy living on dividends. Another couple with about $3.5 million realized about a $55,000 savings veruss the last year at the prior levels.


The two year extension is great news for the truly wealthy. Not those living on retirement plan assets (those are always just taxed as income) . ..but those with substancial taxable portfolios that throw off large dividend stream and can generate substancial capital gains.”

“if you've got serious stock portfolios then you'll make a killing on dividends alone.

One person I know making a huge amountof income from dividends spends most of it buying race horses. Creating many jobs for people to shovel #&%!$ out the stabes.”

“Lee, you a taxy driver? Most of my income is cap. gains and dividends, so, it helps me. But unlike many, I know that after another year or so revenues will start to fall. RE has to take it on the chin and our stock maket has decided maybe we're a little too optimistic. When paying taxes becomes a 'badge courage and success' and custom car plates brag of their contribution will sence of equity rein.”

“S.B.

Yup. taxi driver.”

“I plan to be one of those healthy retirees with a big fat nest egg in 17 to 20 years. With current tax law it is possible to get there. The hardest part is the first 10 years and to start saving early. We are currently saving over 1/3 of our income in accounts that are dividend tax free. Even capital gains taxes can be as low as 15% on regular accounts. The trouble is getting started and rising out of the mire of Income, Social Security and Medicare taxes. Those taxes slam dunk the lower to middle income people. Rich people pay a much smaller portion of their income to Social Security and Medicare taxes. Once you have a large enough investment, it will sustain itself and will be free of earned income taxes. Most of us that still have to pack a pail to work will never be rich. We can however be comfortable in retirement if we plan for it. I've met a few rich folk and don't let their crying about taxes fool you, it's still pretty nice at the top. They even fool us in the middle class into thinking we are one of them and rich as well. Don't let the flat tax crowd fool you, the rich wouldn't be for it if it didn't save them lots of dough.”

“I love days when the dividend becomes larger as compared to stock price. Yes, what a nice day on Wall St.”

“B. Driver --

Under current tax law, income distributions taken from deferred accounts .e.g 401(k)s, IRAs etc after age 59 are taxed at income tax rates, regardless of their character. That is, dividends and capital gains within an IRA or 401(k) are ignored for tax purposes, and you are simply taxed at your income tax rates (which are likely higher than the current 15% on dividends and capital gains). In affect, you lose the tax cut on dividends and gains if you have your stock allocation in your deferred accounts.

Under the current 15% dividend and capital gain rates it makes most sense to ond allocate bonds to your deferred accounts (that interest is always taxed at income tax rates) as well as more volatile or highly traded stocks or stock funds (where the gains would likely be treated as short term gains anyway and taxed at income tax rates).

For longer term, dividend earning stock positions it makes sense to hold the allocation in your taxable accounts where you have the advantage of the 15% dividend rate and the 15% capital gains rate.

Mind you that this presumes you are maxing out your contributions to deferred savings plans and have additional, taxable savings.
last edited: 5/12/06 2:10:55 PM”

“Lee, are you counting on that 15% being around after two years?”

“s.b --

good question. The people I am counseling are,for the most part already in withdrawal mode.

We can fairly easily change the allocations to maximize tax benefits.

I tried to edit my note again, but ran out of time.


The assumption always is that you have maxed out contributions to deferred tax acounts first.

If you are trying to decide how to allocate your stocks, bonds cash, alternative investments between taxable and non-taxable accounts . . .I would still say the answer is yes.



That is. If the c.g. rates and dividend rates stay the same (15%) you are better off letting stock grow in your taxable pocket. If capital gains rates go up, you are no worse off, unless they go higher than income tax rates. In that case you can reallocate putting stocks in your deferred accounts and bonds in your taxable acccounts.


The only caveat is that for someone who is still in savings mode you need to max out deferred first, and . .. since you do need to pay the dividend tax on the earn d dividends, you do lose some compounding.


Gotta run.”

“Great tax cuts. I'm investing in food, water, guns and ammo with my $108.”

“Hi buddha! :)”

“I saw a headline the other day that the gubmint was going to look at the amount CEOs are given in their packages. Sense when does the gubmint run business? It's bad enough the unions put a stranglehold on business but the gubmint just squeezes out what life the unions don't get. No wonder so many businesses go over seas...more freedom.”

“The gubmint should stop running business when they stop writing tax laws that keep them from paying taxes and receiving billions in other pork.
In a libertarian state those that move overseas would pay a higher 'value added tax'.”

“BB that $108 you're already getting ,the law extended it to 2011.”

“WASHINGTON, June 8 (Reuters) - The U.S. Senate on Thursday killed a bill backed by President George W. Bush that would have permanently repealed estate taxes.

On a vote of 57-41, the Senate blocked consideration of a bill passed by the U.S. House of Representatives that would wipe out what Republicans call the "death tax."

Republican backers had acknowledged they were short of votes for full repeal, but they had hoped to offer an alternative that would have reduced the tax rate and exempted all but the wealthiest estates from the tax.”