Smokies News: Road to Nowhere 59-year Di spute

“for cash, baby!! Yippeeeeeeeeeeee!! This is awesome!

article
if the link didn't friggin work then, here:
http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/local_news/article/0,1406,KNS_347_1741589,00.html”

“Sounds like a step in the right direction”

“The way the Park has been plowing the existing Lakeshore Trail plus their new trail between Eagle Creek and Hazel Creek, they may still end up with a road.

Thanks for posting that link, smokygirl.”

“Yep! Good news. Too bad they got blackmailed by Jesse Helms, et al.”

“I'm glad to see it come to an end, though. That part of the park is one of my favorites. The tunnel is a truly bizarre experience, hiking through it.”

“Nowslimmer, what route are they plowing between eagle creek and hazel? are they rerouting the pinnacle creek trail south of the original pinnacle creek trail?

I read your description on your post awhile back...”

“Sorry SmokyGirl, I should have worded that much better. I meant to say with their new trail. And I should have said bulldozed, not plowed.

I have not seen the new trail, but I would guess that they used the same equipment that they bought a few years ago. I do know that they used the small bulldozer to widen the trail in various places between the trailheads to Eagle Creek and to Forney Creek. That was three years ago. I do not know if they did any other sections.

The new trail(completed) is from across Eagle Creek above CS#90(maybe ¼ to ½ mile) and reaches Hazel Creek maybe ½ to 1 mile above CS#86.

The old trail is no longer maintained from Eagle Creek to Jenkins Ridge Trail. Therefore, I assume that CS#88 will be discontinued. So, yes, Lakeshore Trail has been rerouted away from Pinnacle Creek.
-------------------------------------------
The article at your link states:

Officials with Great Smoky Mountains National Park are beginning the initial phase of an environmental study of the proposed North Shore Road with a series of public meetings scheduled for March.

Park spokeswoman Nancy Gray said Wednesday that it is unclear how the Swain County commission's resolution will affect the park's current direction regarding the North Shore Road.

Greg Kidd, association regional director of the National Parks Conservation Association, said the North Shore Road is ranks at the top of a list of issues confronting Great Smoky Mountains National Park ...

This seems to imply that the Park is still considering a road in that area.”

“Not the park, the goernment, or certain old fools therein.”

“That's something I missed over all the years traipsin' over the Smokies, is that tunnel on the Road To Nowhere. I'll get back'air forsure.

Yeah that's the idea I got from the article too nowslimmer. The NPCA is my fav conservation group, they'll keep thangs stirred up for those cement mongrels.

Thanx for posting it smokygirl.”

“Meetings to discuss Fontana Lake road scheduled - "A series of meetings have been set by Great Smoky Mountains National Park managers to provide detailed information regarding the five alternatives being studied to resolve the future of a proposed new park road on the north shore of Fontana Lake."

"All five meetings will run from 5:30 to 8:30 p.m. The dates and locations are: Feb. 22 at Swain County High School, Feb. 24 at Robbinsville High School, Feb. 28 at Renaissance Asheville Hotel, all in North Carolina, and March 1 at Marriott Knoxville Hotel and March 2 at Glenstone Lodge in Gatlinburg."”

“Jesus.
I thought they settled this months ago?
Didn't all parties agree to a big cash outlay to close the issue?”

“GO SMOKIES sign-in required.

Smokies to hold fourth, final North Shore Road workshop

By MORGAN SIMMONS, simmonsm@knews.com
February 20, 2005

"In 2000, U.S. Rep. Charles Taylor, R-N.C., amended a Department of Transportation bill to include $16 million to resume work on the road. The National Park Service is using $3.9 million of that money to fund the current environmental study and public workshops as required by law.

In 2003, the Swain County Commission passed a resolution to accept a $52 million cash settlement from the federal government in lieu of the North Shore Road.

Supporters of the road say the U.S. government should stick to its original promise and argue that the road would enhance tourism on a side of the Smokies that has remained essentially undeveloped."

The Federal Government's obligation to build a road or pay a settlement and the Park's considerations to build a road appear to be separated item. But I can't see two roads being built. Also, I heard that befofre the payment to Swaint Co., the next county west sued for a share as part of the land and old road taken was in their county.
last edited: 2/21/05 8:26:56 AM”

“It always degenerates to a money grab.”

“Sorry, my clean-up edit did not make the time limit.”

“Taylor should be strung up by his testicles.”

“I'll get the rope but you gotta tie the knot.”

“use fishing line and make it reeeeealllly tight!

and bring a pair of rubber gloves with that rope!
last edited: 2/21/05 1:09:57 PM”

“Nah, his nuts will rip off too soon.”

“This situation is clear, when you understand that our government involved.

• While the government was negotiating with Swain County about a road, the GSMNP Service was spending money($3.9 million) investigating the possibility of building a road. These are two separate deals and the Park is continuing to spend money on the project.
  
  
• In negotiating with Swain County Officials, the U.S. Government failed to consider that other counties might be involved.
  
  
• Even when the announcement of a cash deal between the government and Swain Co. was published to not build a road, GSMNP continued work on investigating the possibility of building a road. I heard that the settlement was blocked by a suit of a neighboring county, probably Monroe, but it could have been Blount.
  
  
• If the government settles and pays cash instead of completing the road, and then if the Park builds a road, it means double payment for the road.
  
  
• Park people told me that if they build the road, a lot of it will be paid by private financing. I doubt that any private financing will be for nothing. Surely the Park must give something in return. ???
  
  
• Now I see "constructing shorter segments of the road leading to picnic areas or other types of visitor facilities inside the park." Do I smell private business opportunities sneaking into the picture?
  
  
• This deal is starting to smell more and more! There is still a bill before congress to make the GSMNP a "Wilderness Area!" The park used this as an excuse to destroy the Rich Mountain and the Scott Gap Shelters a few years ago. They wanted to return those areas to a more natural state and to try to stay within bounds of permitting the Park to become a Wilderness Area. It appears that for the Park to build 30 miles of road and to develope other facilities in the Fontana Lake area would violate working toward a Wilderness Area status. Why would anyone change direction unless there was someting lucrative in the wind?
  
  
• A lot of construction is continuing to improve highways 74 and 28 on the south side of Fontana Lake. An existing road on the south side of Fontana Lake was one of the reasons for not completing the "Road To Nowhere!" It appears to me that the Road To Nowhere is still not needed and it's construction and operation would be detrimental to the park.

last edited: 2/21/05 1:45:15 PM”

“I think Graham County, NC was the county that complained - many years ago, the extreme north western part of Swain that's inside the park was Graham.

Theoretically (i know, i know) the Park could still become "wilderness area" with the wilderness boundry just a few yards off the new road - but still that is really neither here nor there as far as the "worthiness" of the road.

The only reason anyone would want a road there would be to expand some sort of commercial opportunity from a vendor's perspective.

There are LOTS of folks living in that part of the country who had ancestors that lived along Hazel Creek and the surrounding area. They complain a little about not having easy access to the old cemetarys and such, but I'd say that most of them would still go against the road - the road wouldn't take them all the way to where they want to go and the ones I know rather like riding horses to the old "family spots" - its a sort of connection for them.”

“At Hazel Creek the Park maintains a bus, which is usually parked across the creek from the Proctor CG. And they barge vans and other vehicles across Fantana Lake. With these vehicles they do provide transportation to the areas with cemeteries upon special or announced dates. However, since most of the cemeteries are located on or near the tops of the hills or mountains, it is necessary for the visitors to hike the remaining distance. Some of these trails are closed to horses.

I believe they supply transportation services to other areas, too. Forney Creek is probably such an area. Private vehicles are permitted on the Noland Creek Trail for cemetery visits.
last edited: 2/21/05 2:13:33 PM”

“I know - i didn't say "no access", just not "easy", i.e. whenever they want.

The road up Little Cataloochee is open one day a year for family visits/reunions as well.

I walked into the big reunion once, not knowing that it was gonna be there. I think the old folks were as surprised as I was. If I remember correct, i was on day three of a hike - in may or june (i'd been sweating - they probably smelled me coming up the road)”

“http://www.westernncattractions.com/hazelcreek/build_the_road_to_nowhere_letters.htm

This road would cost about 1/3 of what the administration hopes to gain from selling the 300,000 acres of public land.

So what, we can't afford to keep all the public land but we hope we can throw away a large fortune furthering degrading whats left!
last edited: 3/07/06 8:52:52 AM”

“I'm still opposed to the road.”

“No road. Keep it that way.

lonesurveyor - It appears that every letter in that document is for the road. I'm sure there must be some viewpoints somewhere on the other side.

BTW, did you have to start a new string for this?”

“This is not a new thread. Look at the dates for it.”

“More roads!!!! More Roads!!!!”

“...THEY will come...and hince, it will no longer be a road to nowhere, rather a road to SOMEWHERE!

"What this here area needs is more KONKRETE an' TRAILER PARKS!"”

“Thanks, treebait, you're correct. Sorry about my error, lonesurveyor. You did it up right. Thanks.”

“Oh yeah, oooh, first we clear and grub away the forest. oooh yeah, baby. Then we scrape away the topsoil, uuuh, then we bring in that big backhoe and dig some ditches. oh yeah, did baby dig, deeper, deeper, yeah just like that, baby. ummmmm, drill some holes in that escarpment. Fill it baby, fill it with explosives and blow that face away. oh oh oh. yeah, just like that, now bring in those rumbing trucks and dump some ABC all over that wide cut. oh yeah, spread it all over. Now some hot steaming asphalt. pack it down baby, now roll it smooth.”

“Hyway, you sound way too turned on by this. ;)”

“"Rollin Rollin Rollin, keep those dozers rolling, Rolling Rolling Rolling RAW EARTH Tear em up, mow it down, rape it clear, Rolling on RAW EARTH!"”

“It is kind of humorous that this controversy has been ongoing, now, for 63 years.”

“I listened to something about this the other day on NPR. I was sick in the gut. Hopefully it goes away for another 60 years.
The report stated that the area in question is one of the largest undeveloped areas in the entire eastern US. The above article sure stresses money over anything else.”

“Larger unroaded areas in the eastern US might be found in the Everglades, the Okefenokee, possibly the Adirondacks or the Maine woods (lots of private roads).

but in terms of the Southern Appalachians, its far and away the largest unroaded area yet as I posted recently even in the this largest unroaded area in the GSMNP, a hiker can currently get no more than 7 miles, straight line, from a public road and the North Shore Road would disect that most remote area.

The Tellico/Slickrock/Snowbird was about as large and unroaded until the Cherohala Skyway was constructed, cost about $100 million in 1960's and 1970's dollars.

North Shore Road, they expect will cost upwards of $300 million in current dollars.
last edited: 3/07/06 3:35:42 PM”

“lonesurveyo - FYI, that area has lots of roads, mainly leading to cemeteries. In some areas, like at Proctor on Hazel Creek, there are cars and buses there used to transport people from the Lake frontage. At others the vehicles are barged across the lake, when needed. Many of the trails or parts of them are roadbeds.
last edited: 3/07/06 4:14:22 PM”

“That depends on what you call 'lots of roads'.

Yes, some of the former network of roads from when that area was populated has been kept open by the park service for their own patrol activities and to facilitate a limited number of folks whose familes formerly there to revisit the area occasionally. Fill me in,can non-members of families of former residents have their vehicles taken across the lake on the barges? Ya know, hikers and fishermen.

So, the complaint that several families cannot visit their ancestral homeplaces and graveyards without the $300 million North Shore Road is not valid.

But

this is nothing like the 3,000 vehicles per day that is foreseen during Touron season to be travelling the North Shore Road.
last edited: 3/07/06 5:20:59 PM”

“to construct the North Shore Road with annual maintenance costs of $15 million!

http://www.sabp.net/hottopicnorthshoreroad.html

www.sabp.net
last edited: 3/08/06 6:29:16 AM”

“I am not for or against the road, but I'd like to know what the $15 million maint cost are supposed to be. I find that hard to believe.”

“Senator Lamar Alexander (from Maryville), announced a few weeks ago that he believes it is time to abandon this project and move on. Although he is holding public hearings, it appeared to me his mind is made up and I would think that he is in position to put this one to bed.

Guess we will have to wait and see.”

“Lamar Alexander is a U. S. Senator for TN now?
Didn't realize that.
He was still kinda local when I lived in TN.”

“He is sort of a career politician.”

“Aren't they all?”

“Unfortunately a TN senator has much less pull than the NC congressmen who'd like to see that road being built. The good folks of WNC are for the most part, not supportive of that road. But they also won't fight very well to keep the road out! As for the locals in the immediate area, they certainly wouldn't terribly mind a tourist road on the N shore! They could (as a whole) go either way on the issue, however, they do see bigger dollars arriving with a nice, new country parkway nearby.

The catering and tourism businesses in WNC has a huge lobby, they are most certainly fleecing pockets in NC, in the state congress as well as board members and governing personell of the Park!

There's been too much growth (IMO) in the northshore area in the last 15 years, and it's not a grand leap to just pave a nice, scenic road thru there!

I only hope that the rather smallish number of Park protectors and hikers can successfully stand up against Big Business in stopping the road. This issue is a real threat that won't drag on for another 60 years, and frankly we stand a small chance of winning. Not a zero chance, but certainly not a big one. I for one will never give up.”

“It amazes me that any so-called conservative like NC republican Congressman Charles Taylor would support spending this amount of money on this sort of project during this time of a massive federal budget deficit

but he says he does.

I think it is a bluff to get a larger cash settlement for Swain County.

Taylor as well seems to be one of the members of congress who is in favor of the sell-off of public lands, but he is currently mumbling on the issue and continually lobbies for logging of the national forests at levels above the level of regrowth using such cute names as 'The Healthy Forest Initiative'.
last edited: 3/09/06 6:02:06 AM”

“I-3 is proposed to be built at a monstrous expense between GSMNP and Joyce Kilmer - Slickrock Wilderness.

Statement on Interstate 3

Washington, DC, Aug 5, 2005 - "We have numerous highway projects that need to be completed in Western North Carolina. The Appalachian Highway will cost between 200 and 300 million dollars to complete. This highway from Stecoah to Andrews will eliminate some of the heavy traffic through the Nantahala Gorge. This project has already been planned and engineered. We badly need to complete the portion of Interstate 26 around Asheville. As I pointed out in a meeting last year with Asheville City Council and Buncombe County Commissioners, I have pledged to get funding for the 6 and 8 lane portions of that project, as well as bridge construction as soon as possible. You may recall that we had the money for that project, but placement and local approval have stalled the program. But this is a number one necessity for safety and the economy in Western North Carolina. We are also working to add additional lanes to Highway 221 through Rutherford County and I am a supporter of that project. I am also interested in upgrading passenger rail service, as evidenced by the million dollars we received last year for the Asheville to Salisbury project. I am also assisting with planning on an Asheville to Greenville/Spartanburg rail study. So there are a number of US highway improvements I would like to see in Western North Carolina, including passing lanes where appropriate on Highway 64 and improvements between Maggie Valley and Cherokee.
When we have secured all the funding to move these projects forward, I would be willing to look at the reasonableness of funding Interstate 3."


With all these planned roads, does another one really need to be built within GSMNP?
last edited: 3/09/06 6:16:45 AM”

“Keep in mind it has taken 40 years to complete the part of the Foothills Parkway that is open.

I would have thought that after that debacle, the road planners would just fold camp and go home.”

“nope, we are a tough bunch.”

“Them road planners gotta feed their youngins too, and folding camp and going home ain't gonna put bread on the table.”