Peace March

“Let's see, thousands of people at a peace march, concentrated in one place. Hmmmm, seems like a pragmatic target for Al Queda, eh Mutt?”

“I don't see your point as it relates to your last post.

AQ would be better served making a devastating strike against a completely unsuspecting and highly visible target.”

“Like a Peace Protest?”

“What about this American philosophy of not backing down. That if we change our way of living, then ' the terrorists win'. Isn't that what you are saying here? And,if it isn't, then pardon me and I stand corrected, but that's what you are sounding like, Savage. Just my 2 cents.”

“

whats wrong with a peace march? ...
mapleleaf AKA pottymouth
treebeard

They do not have a permit for it!
It is required in NYC. It was refused and the the court upheld the refusal.
The 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said it could find no errors in a judge's ruling this week that found the city acted legally when it permitted a rally for 100,000 people or more, but barred a march this Saturday.”

“ok then what about other cities?


mapleleaf”

“well I try to stay out of politics because i just get p!ssed.
but someone on the OTHER board pushed me way to far. I choose to post what i said here because its how I feel.


ok i reread this and YES it is towards me.
first off dont you dare ever talk to me like this again. dont you dare call me names!!! you have no idea who the hell i am or what i believe in got it!
I do not want war, so that makes me a bad american?
oh i guess your right. spilling blood is the answer
then are you going to volunteer to go over to what ever war bush has planed for this week? I didnt think so.
do you have sons? are you going to wish them luck or miss them if they have to go to war? will you cry if your child does not come home from the War?
i do not like bullies and my friend you are a friggin bullie. FYI my mother and 2 of my sisters are from Canada. my brother who is dying from AIDS lives in Canada because our health care system is so screwed up he had no choise but to move there so he could get the meds he needs to surive. meds he can not afford here in the state. so i dont see him as offten as i would like to. i am not a teacher but if i was i would be damn proud of my job. gee im a woman and that means that a long time ago there were a few woman that belived in that ALL WOMAN have the right to vote. gee i also think they marched. gee im also thinking that MLKing marched for freedom. OMG theres that dirty little word again FREEDOM.


wow its been awhile since ive had to defend myself. But man you got me p!ssed.


sorry for the rant but i will not delete anything that i wrote.


mapleleaf”

“Bacpac wouldn't know what merit was if it bit him in the ass.
roseymonster
06:33:33 PM
02/13/03

Merit is a meritorious promotion to Corporal in the USMC.

Merit is a meritorious promotion to Sergeant in the USMC.

Merit is recieving an American Flag when your Father dies.

Merit is watching your children exeed your expectations.

Merit is a big fat bonus check for working hard and creating a large profit for my employer.

Merit is crying when they play the National Anthem.

Merit is knowing I did the right thing.

I got merit in spades.”

“Sorry, I didn't mean to get emotional.

MooooHaaaaHaaaaaa”

“Caught yourself, eh Bacquack?


Moohaaahaahhaa”

“Ah heck. I guess the Westcoasters have gone home for the day.”

“

ok then what about other cities?
mapleleaf
treebeard

Thank you for your response.

I had given a similar quote and reference in my first post. However, it was ignored.

I do not know anything about peace marches in other cities. Actually, I have no objection as long as marches are held within the law.”

“A four year stint in the marines does not make you the expert on merit. It might give you an unnatural insight into the merit of being able to run - quickly - on sand, but that's another story.

Mikey, in short, you're a blowhard.”

“I understand your point about staying within the bounds of the law. Unfortunately , this is a precarious position. I do not want to advocate breaking the law, as that will just result in chaos and the statement that the anti war demonstrators are trying to make will be lost. But, from what I understand, the location of the demonstration has just been relocated a little and the event will go on as planned. Am I wrong here?”

“Oh yeah, and an e-5 in the marines gets paid the same as an e-5 in the air force or navy. That always seemed to irritate all the marines I knew.”

“Lets go to war already huh?

8)”

“It takes just as much a hero, if not more, to stand up and protest what you find to be unjust.

It's easy for a person to espouse war when they aren't putting thier lives at risk, especially the cowards.

If you all want war so badly, put your money where your mouth is.”

“

it permitted a rally for 100,000 people or more, but barred a march this Saturday

That article is only information I have about the Peace March. The above quote from it bars a march. The reason appears is stated in the article as follows:

Judge Barbara S. Jones concluded the city's response was appropriate in "this time of heightened security," especially since the protest organizers gave the city little time to prepare.

”

“I have a question for all you Peace Protesters. Where were you all when the U.S. was bombing the bejesus out of Serbia? Was Serbia more of a threat to the U.S. than Iraq? Was Milosevic any worse than Hussein? Remember that the Gulf War ended with a cease fire agreement under which Iraq agreed to specific conditions.”

“A four year stint in the marines does not make you the expert on merit. It might give you an unnatural insight into the merit of being able to run - quickly - on sand, but that's another story.

Mikey, in short, you're a blowhard."
Phaedrus
07:37:08 PM
02/13/03

What do you mean by blow hard? Do you think I can't hack it as a Marine? Is this a physical challenge?

I accept.”

“great a p!ssing contest.

hey can i protest this and have a march about it?”

“If you all want war so badly, put your money where your mouth is."
Gear Slut
07:46:25 PM
02/13/03

please define this?

mapleleaf”

“Sorry, money was perhaps a poor example of risk for all the blowhards. It's easy for them to spout because they have nothing to risk.

The trouble with bacpac is that he toots his own horn about his commendable military experience so much that one begins to doubt it's authenticity.”

“I got merit in spades.


And yet you completely lack honor.”

“I should not have opened this thread. I didn't read but a few posts. That said, I admit that I am a liberal. I'm also a tree hugger. I also believe in the right to bear arms. I am a flag waving, democracy loving, proud American.

I have nothing against a peace march. You don't have to preach peace to me. Rather than march here, why not march in a big circle around Saddam. Let's see how long you remain standing.

US citizens have gotten fat and soft. I support the men and women who fight for our rights, beliefs and ideals. I support my nephew who is a helicopter pilot over seas and I support my brother who is preparing to go over seas in a small ship. I pitty the fool who burns the US flag in my presence.

If anyone responds to this post, I won't see it. I won't open this thread again.”

“i think protestors are.....well, just swell. i happen to disagree some on this one, although i understand some of the logic behind overting war. i believe most of them in this case to be misinformed on many issues reguarding this situation.

i don't understand why nobody is protesting sadam hussein to comply with the UN resolutions....instead of protesting us for inforcing them. can someone explain this to me?




Bomb them until they like us."
JohnMcK

they will never like us, no matter how nice you are to them. they hate you because they believe you to be weak infedels and scared to fight back.




and finally......
"It is ordained in the eternal
constitution of things that men of intemperate minds cannot be
free. Their passions forge their fetters." --Edmund Burke”

“wow, sunny said a mouthfull! no that's a scencable liberal. there IS a God!”

“In a free country, it's citizens are allowed to bad mouth or disagree with their leaders/politicians.

Do the Iraq or other commie/repressive countries allow their citizens to speak out against them...I think not. You do that...and you'll or/and your family will disappear one dark night.”

“ive never been to a peace march, and after reading some of these posts i may never go.
sorry i even asked the question. the thread has gotten way nutty.
thats way i hate politics!!!

mapleleaf”

“What do you mean by blow hard? Do you think I can't hack it as a Marine? Is this a physical challenge?

I accept."
bacpac
08:03:15 PM
02/13/03

No no bacpac, One thing I've learned in my time is that there's a balance to things. People without much wit are often endowed with a great deal of physical prowess or power.

From the wit in your posts, I wouldn't mess with you.”

“Then I must be in the gym. This string appears to be filled with an abundance of physical prowess or power.”

“I've never been a fan of mass murder.”

“LOL Phae. Tree and maple, I just don't understand your trian of thought. I respect you both fully, and I try to understand. But I cannot help but to think that you guys are like "LaLaLaLa lead the world by being peaceful and loving....." I mean I agree with yun's that that's the way thangs should be, but the real world couldn't be more different. Planet Earth ain't Disneyland. I'm not a war monger, but Saddam is a very naughty boy. His entire establishment must be delt with, nay, eliminated. And who's gonna do it, the UN, spineless chatterboxes, of course not. Of course it's gonna be the USA, it's our boys and girls that's gonna hafta go over there with the camel spiders and dust storms to lay waste to his buttox. Some are gonna get wounded and killed, naturally. Noone desires that, but it hasta be done, to better the planet, and our nation especially, in the long run.

So you're goin' to peace marches, that's cool. Are you really thankin that it's best to let Saddam alone for several more months and years? Do you not give a crap that he'll grow and improve his war machine? He's gonna blackmail that quarter of the planet when he has nukes(not to mention the US). He's gonna better his bio and chem slurries, and worse he's gonna greatly improve transporting, hiding, launching, and dispersing them. How can an American not be seriously bothered by this? War is very bad, like you I hate it, but this is necessary.

To delete this or not .... I think not; tree and maple, help me understand.”

“We all have different opinions for different reasons. This doesn't make any of us wrong in our beliefs. Politics is just politics & people get furious over words. Why? We probably won't even remember this next year unless one of our sons or daughters dies. I don't think this is about Saddam. He has nothing to do with Osama. There are dozens of other countries (US most of all) doing exactly what he is doing. Like Vietnam, this war is about politics. It's about making rich people richer & oil. It's about a pipeline through Afghanistan. Most of us (myself included) are just being manipulated by conservative media.
It will be a nice weekend to take a hike.”

“I wish the people who are in favor of this war would ask themselves One Question:

Would we be doing this if not for the events of 9-11?”

“P.S.

This will not be a sweep across the desert like last time. It could well devolve into house-to-house combat --- and Baghdad has a population of 4.5 - 5 MILLION.

Recall Mogadishu.”

“Tilt, I honestly think that even if 9-11 never happened, this Iraq thing would still occur. The first thing I thought when W. eked his way into the White House was that he would have us in a war within two years. I figured that cleaning up the lingering mess Daddy left in the Gulf War would be the logical place for it to happen. I mean, just look at the cast of characters here. It's like a repeat performance. You have Cheney, Rumsfeld, Powell, representative of the Bush family, etc. But, enough of that, right or wrong, I was just expressing my gut feeling. We'll never know whether or not that would have been true anyway.

Apeman, I respect what you say, and despite the fact that you seem to think I am just a tree huggin dizzy man, I am aware of more reality than you give me credit for, But, think what you want. I am totally resigned to the fact that we are going to war and nothing will stop it. It just burns me up, however. Reason is that I fel we are doing it for all the wrong reasons. It is not about WMD, simply because Saddam is not the most dangerous threat on the globe when it comes to that. I would say the threat from North Korea is way more urgent than Saddam, but I don't see our macho, preppie boy prez flexing his muscles on that issue. It's too sensitive. Iraq, however, he can do that with. Saddam is under a microscope and can't wipe his butt without the world scrutinizing every move he makes. I still don't believe that he has nuclear weapons and he couldn't launch his chemical arsenal over here with what he has if he tried. So, that is (in a nutshell) why I don't believe the WMD propaganda. This administration is doing a good job of manipulating the media and putting the fear of God into people, though. I believe it's more about oil and such. You may disagree with me, folks, but this is what I believe. Being that he is watched this closely leads me to believe that, under the present circumstances, it would be very difficult for him to build his arsenal at the rate some folks have suggested. So, giving the U.N. the time it had requested (while the U.S. harassed the shyt out of them) wasn't such an outlandish plan. Don't get me wrong, if someone could prove that they had anything to do with 9-11, I would be the first one to suggest that we blow his balls off and make oil soup out of that country. So, I am not a 'peace at all cost' citizen. I still take 9-11 seriously. My wife, daugther and myself were day and night volunteer workers at a supply outpost within 1/2 mile of ground zero (only because that was as close as the authorities would let us go) and took our work there very seriously. I smelled the vile odor of that place. I was stricken with 'World Trade Center' cough for almost 5 months following it. I take this very seriously. I just feel our government has their own agenda in Iraq and haven't exactly been forthright with us. To sum it up, I just don't want to have to worry about the potential backlash (suicide bombers, etc.) over here in the states over oil and such.

On a side note, I would like to say that i have enjoyed the political discussions with you folks that still believe in the First Amendment. By that, I mean the open minded people that, whether they agree or disagree with me, are willing to listen and debate without resorting to the 'my way or the highway' attitude. Good, intelligent open forum is very healthy, but when some demented, so-called patriot or religious zealot tries to nail their soles on my shoes, that's where I draw the line. Anywhoo, it seems to me that we are lapsing back into something I experienced years ago in this country. I was a peacenik back then (I guess old habits die hard) and I used to attend most of the New York City peace demonstrations. I was there when the hardhats charged down Wall Street and clashed with the marchers and when Huey Newton and the Black Panthers incited a semi riot in Bryant Park. What I'm getting at though, is the divisiveness in this country that is going on now. It is becoming strangely reminiscent of what was happening to us back then. Frankly, I just hope that we are not embarking on the mistakes we made by getting involved in Vietnam. Unfortunately, this time the stakes are higher and more innocent people at home could likely be dragged the mud. Sorry to be so long winded and thanx to those that have the patience to hear me out.”

“Nice.”

“It was obvious that Bush et al had this high on their wish list, but I think it would've been a Much tougher sell without 9-11...”

“Oh, without a doubt, Tilt. You are soooo right. The approach would have had to be different”

“As a point of clarification, although NYC will not permit a march, they are permitting a stationary rally at Dag Hammarskjold Plaza, on East 47th Street, with overflow going up First Avenue.NY Times.

Savage - Do you really think the idea of a terror attack on a peaceful, legal protest is somehow amusing?”

“Have they checked your house for anthrax, "Savage"?”

“The article:

When antiwar protesters gather in Manhattan tomorrow, they will not be allowed to march and will not be permitted near the United Nations. New York City officials have decided to limit the protest to a stationary rally several blocks away. The city has the right to impose reasonable restrictions to protect public safety, particularly now when the Police Department's resources are strained by a heightened terrorist alert. But the way this demonstration is being handled should not become the standard for the future.

United for Peace and Justice, a coalition of local and national organizations that are opposed to war in Iraq, asked permission for 50,000 to 100,000 people to march down First Avenue past the United Nations. After some negotiations the city offered the protesters a stationary rally at Dag Hammarskjold Plaza, on East 47th Street, with overflow going up First Avenue. When United for Peace and Justice sued, a federal district judge ruled for the city. A three-judge appeals court panel affirmed her decision.

We wish officials had come up with an alternative plan that was closer to the march the organizers wanted. But given the number of people expected to attend, the short notice the city had to prepare for the event and the United Nations' history as a terrorism target, the city seems to be within its rights under First Amendment law.

It is crucial, however, that this not become the norm. Officials cannot decide that from now on marching will be limited to ethnic parades. Protests that move down the street have a symbolic power that stationary rallies do not, and delivering a message at a location like the United Nations can have far greater impact than saying the same thing in a small park. The federal courts have given the city the leeway it asked for. Now the burden is on the city to show how, in the future, it will protect New York's tradition of vibrant and vocal dissent.”

“Sorry. I agree. And thanks for bringing it to my attention. As a subscriber, they automatically find my name, even when I clicked on the link by violin.”

“I see that as an important message in there, Phaed...”

“And they just called, talk about timing, trying to sell me home delivery. I question the registering and received a song and dance about it.

treebeard and Phaedrus
- I thought it was a good editorial.”

“Just a thought for all you warmongers out there... violence only leads to more violence. Both ghadi and king expressed this idea and died for their belief. So where does this end? Does our safety require the slaughter of thousands of iraqis? koreans?

Then there is the matter of justice. Are we to police the world as a self appointed bunch of vigilantes or will we set the example and allow social (world) justice to become possible?”

“Timing is everything NS. Thanx for the good word too...


BTW, I had such a nightmare with the Times for home delivery. They kept charging me everyday for about 4 months even though I cancelled it after 4 weeks (reason being I only got 3 or 4 papers for the time period). But, in the interest of fairness, maybe that was because I live on the 4th flor of a walkup and maybe the lazy f**k didn't like climbing steps.”

“Bacpac's emotion of choice is anger. He also likes the FEELING of superiority. When will he get his own right-wing blab show on the radio?”