Her website is up!

“8 a.m. today was the launch of my wife's new website about women's self image.

As you'll see, she's nothing if not direct in her approach, but it's been a big project for her and for the forseeable future.

I've never watched a website come together before, but I actually have passed on observations made while on TT and the comments TTers have made about thebackpacker.com and the way it looks and operates. So you have all contributed in a way to this new venture.

I won't try to influence your reaction any further. To visit, go to

www.tit4tat.net

(I don't know how to do a hot link, but there's always someone on TT who does, it seems.)”

“a href="www.tit4tat.net"target="_blank">Tit4Tat Weblink”

“Whoopsie.”

“I could be mean, but I won't...

pekka's wife's site”

“Aw screw it.. see bitpusher's link.”

“LMAO... anyone else???”

“Thanks, bitpusher.

And she does expect a variety of reactions. Getting folks talking about the issue is one of her goals, and I know TTers love to talk.”

“Thanks for all the links! I knew it wouldn't take long, but three that fast, lol!”

“Ok, an opinion. The website looks good. The idea of better self image is good. But I am put off by Tit 4 Tat. Are we encouraging the use of the word "tits??" Geez!! To me that has as bad a connotation as "#&%!$," as far as being just a bad, nasty, looking-down-on-someone word. I know that's not what she means... and maybe it'll pick up and be "reaallllllllly coooooooooool"... and I'll just laugh at it down the road. But initial reaction was "OMG!!"”

“BTW, I had posted the "N" word... and it is really nasty, as you know.”

“Another problem may be that a lot of filtering software will block access to the site because of the name.

Perhaps a name change to "www.naturalcans.net" is in order?

lol....j/k....”

“Well, lizs, that's part of the whole discussion. Who controls these cultural labels -- the persons themselves, or the society. Should women control the terms used to identify and value them, or should institutions and others.

I can say she expects the very reaction -- a complicated one -- that you've expressed as one of a range of possibilities, from outright disgust to joyful celebration. She's gotten both to this point, from a variety of persons in a variety of places where the concept was previewed.”

“Good one, bitpusher. And one of the things to remember, she is trying to have a sense of humor to avoid having this fall into some ideologically driven, politically correct women vs. men thing.”

“I finally came to the conclusion the other night, in an induced haze, that boob jobs are just a modern form of scarification/modern primitive type thing. I mean, tribes with women who have the neck rings, stretched earlobes, lip cups etc. are just accentuating parts of their bodies in order to attract mates/gain status, etc. They think it makes them more attractive within their culture. I think boob jobs are the modern equivallent. I gotta say, I see -- at least what appear to be -- a growing number of fake chests at the gym. Seems to be more and more the norm.”

“I think the website name will help with that. And I posted the bit of humor above mostly to demonstrate that (I think, anyway) there are much worse terms than "tits" to use to refer to breasts. But everybody has their own personal set of terms they don't like, so I don't mean to imply that if someone's view of those terms doesn't coincide with mine, they're being prudish or ideological. I just wanted to demonstrate that there are worse terms.

As far as the "female body image" thing goes, I have some interest because I have a daughter. We are already starting to have "body image" issues with her, and she is only 7! Mostly it is "I think I'm fat, I need to exercise" (she is by no means fat) so your wife's website may not as attuned to that issue. But I definitely like the "natural breasts" take. I hate the fake ones, and it makes me sick to see some young girl getting surgery just so she can have big ones. They were already fine the way they were.”

“Oh yes, natural is best.

If a woman wants to use that label on her website, why not? The term seems to have entered the public domain; for better or worse it's in use, along with other descriptive anatomical labels.”

“Along the same line, has anyone seen the Dave Chapell show on comedy central? He attacks cultural labels and stereotype through humor and one comes away wondering who exactly owns the label. It's great!

He did a bit on a blind, black white supremacist the other night that had me rolling!

Anyway, back to your regularly scheduled breasts. :)”

“rosey, check the numbers at the site -- more than 200,000 done a year now.

bit, we have daughters too, and the whole experience has certainly been an influence on my wife's approach to the subject. She decided to start with the most "up front" aspect of women's self image, but the full body image will also get addressed as things go on -- and men's self image, too.”

“Some of that phenomenon at the gym may be from women who work out to the point where their breasts almost disappear. They are mostly fat, after all, and if you work hard to lose fat, well, golly, it decreases in a lot of places. So it could be that a lot of those women are just trying to get back something they've lost. But still, I think staying natural is the way to go.”

“In my opinion, breast implants are less attractive than small breasts by far. I may be in the minority, but so be it.

Physically, I like women who look athletic and, well, natural.”

“Agreed. Some women can look great but man, they couldn't do anything physically demanding to save their lives. All show and no go. Gimmie a healthy, in-shape woman with a flat tummy :) Of course, if there's a rack to boot...”

“You've got to wonder why people think doorknob tits are sexy...”

“My sister in-law had gastro bypass surgery ( I think that's what it's called) and lost about 160 LBS. Her breasts shrunk to almost nothing and were sagging down to her waist... literally. She decided to have implants, a full C. They removed some excess skin and relocated her nipples...ouch!

Sounds like a happy ending? No three months later she went back in, un-satisfied and got an upgrade to the largest she could buy. She can no longer sleep on her stomach and is having trouble finding clothes that fit her top side. It's none of my business, but I think it's way too much.”

“What's the largest you can buy? EEE?”

“My wife wants ‘em even though I’m against the idea… sort of… well… unless they’re really nice and all.


Yeah Phaed, Dave Chapell is funny as hell. He did a bit the other night about reparations day that was uncomfortably hilarious.”

“I'm not sure but they are huge. The Doctor told her they were the largest implant available.”

“Uncomfortable is right! I always feel kind of guilty that I'm laughing at him, but then I have to think about what the overall effect of HIS particular humor is.”

“Did you check out the gear? I'm trying to picture myself walking down the street wearing a t-shirt that says "Nice tits!" on it. LMAO!!!

BTW”

“BTW pekka, your wife's website is tres cool.”

“Jeez, I visited. Was gonna troll but no message board! What a bust.”

“I love the word "Tits."

I think the website is great. Yeah, you are going to have more conservative-type of people shying away, but he11, I think the word tit is more Bam! then boob or breast.

Just for the record, I love my tits. LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rock on!”

“POST A PICTURE!!!”

“er... I uhm... you know, just for discussion's sake.”

“My "website" is up too!

or should I call it a "browser?"”

“I feel sorry for Pekka. Your wife has some strange ideas.”

“Oooh, but I love her strange ideas ... never boring, and often quite exciting!!!”

“Limpy, there is a page at the site to send messages. It isn't an immediate thing like TT, but you can comment.”

“Bacpac thinks nice tits are a strange idea?

Interesting.”

“I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that your wife does not see eye to eye with the HMWHC. Opie, as President you should be on this one!”

“Well, I can certify she doesn't hate men.”

“I'll never again be invited to a HMWHC event - But here goes - I liked the idea and the site. I also liked the fact that your wife is going out on a limb a little with the tit-4-tat thing. Good job. I know I would not want my daughter or son for that matter (when she grows up) to alter her body just to be accepted. Change the mindset instead. Big or little they all are great. Wonderful job!!”

“Thanks for the comments, stalker -- and you're always welcome in the HeMan Women Lovers Club.”

“Here is a quote from the site.

"WHAT ABOUT WOMEN WHO'VE HAD RECONSTRUCTIVE SURGERY?
We support reconstructive surgery as long as it's the cancer survivor - not
the boyfriend, not the spouse, not the partner, not the plastic surgeon, not
the anybody else - who wants it."

I have known several women who have had boob jobs. Not a single one of them had a boob job, because someone else wanted them. Women get boob jobs because WOMEN want them.

Mrs. Pekka seems to have some weird ideas that men control women's decisions. Men have no idea what controls women's decisions, but we are certain it is us.”

“Correction...

Men have no idea what controls women's decisions, but we are certain it is NOT us.”

“Oops, bacpac has got himself in a tizzy. Is or isn't? Hmmmm So hard to choose. Choice (such a troublesome word when discussing women's issues). Oh, that's right, it simply says women should be the ones guiding the choice in a reconstructive situation -- not someone else who wants them to be "back to normal." Never says that is the way it is in every such situation.

The site never says men control women -- but it does suggest that there are many pressures on women to conform themselves to certain images. Of course widely studied and taught theories of self-image formation that point to external social influences and comparison of self to others as key components can be just tossed off as "weird."

And of course, a look into the subject, bacpac, beyond the few at hand subjects (or do you know all the women who have had implants?) may show your sample to be limited.

Let's see, my mother is a breast cancer survivor. Maybe I should conclude that her particular decisions after her mastectomy are representative of all women? Oh, that's right, that would be leaping to a conclusion, making a hasty generalization.

Weird? Or uncomfortable? Whatever, bacpac. She got you thinking about the subject, which is the first step.”

“Allow me to step out of character for a moment....

I raised two daughters and due to wife issues I ended up dealing with a lot of their needs. Understand that inspite of the eyerolls and other "im not listening" activities young ladies do value dads opinion. Not just the things you say directly to them but also how you react to women in general including tv. While they do need to be reassured and encouraged dont skip over the negative comments either. a " oh that looks awful" review while a bit painfull lends a lot more credibility to the "you look fine " comments. The exact choice and timing of course is a matter of style and personality. I doubt I need to tell you to keep communication open but I realise that some subjects are a bit uncomfortable for both sides. I certainly didnt enjoy clothes shopping with mine but it did help to keep them talking even during their rebellion years.

(and no I am not a pervert, I am waiting for my daughter to try on clothes, thank you very much!)

we now return to our regularly schedualed program..”

“good advice DOM...and lol at the pervert quote...

When women stare at you because you're spending too much time in the ladies' clothing area, just stare back...works great..lol...”

“I beg to differ bacpac. I can't be wrong, I'm female.


Loiten upppp! ; P
.”