Children of Military harassed

“I read the first half of the thread...then the rest became snivelling..but my 2 cents are that the military personnel are only doing their job "following orders". Many of them would rather not leave their families, many of them feel this deployment is wrong..but it is their job. As far as teachers go they have to teach things they may not like or approve of...I had to force my high school teacher to teach evolution to our class...he announce he was going to skip it. I told him if he did this i would cause a stink so big Florala would be national news.”

“What's all this fuss about hairyassed military brats, anyway???”

“my @$$ isn't hairy, but being a military brat taught me about beauracracy and red tape”

“dan, no, it's not a direct quote at all. it's from my memory and i'm sure i didn't get it quite right. but i'm also sure you didn't see my point....which was....they tried calling him stupid, the way phaedrus called me stupid, so people wouldn't take him seriously .......the underlying point is....if i'm effective, it'll rile ya'll up more and that's why ya'll wanna shut me up, is because i'm effective.......but i'm sure such an independant thinker like you didn't see that either....

i only got to listen to about 15 minutes yesterday as i was on a job.

as far as being independant goes....why don't you worry about your own debating techniques and data gathering, and i'll worry about mine. deal?

see, i have an advantage as my information is based on truth.....



mountainmaster, interesting 'dammage control' article you posted. wait till bill orielly gets ahold of this one....OH MAMA! I CAN'T WAIT!



"'Tis time to fear when tyrants seem to kiss." --William
Shakespeare”

“Actually, strat, you called yourself stupid. I agreed.

Anyway, the "truth" is on your side, so why would you care what anyone thinks?


blah blah blah.”

“After reading this thread I think it’s time to disband the evil NEA and close down all public schools.

You are a product of the public school system, aren’t you strat?”

“O'Reilly is a buffoon.

Okay, I'll post it again...

I saw O'Reilly on C-SPAN's Washington Journal program last year speaking with Brian Lamb and I heard him say (and this is a direct quote), "We primarily deal with emotional topics on "The Factor". We don't have time for our audience to think."

I guess that Rational Conservative thing went Right out the window, LOL”

“Because turning the other cheek, standing on your own two feet, ignore your detractors and carry-on, have always been the way of conservatives. But after decades of listening to the crybabies on the left complaining about every perceived slight, we are finally fed up. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander. Its time the people who feel they are free to attack conservatives learn that they should be held to the same standards that conservatives are when dealing with the left.

It wasn't more than a few months ago that a local teacher (Wilmington, NC) was the subject of a public witchhunt just for teaching the word niggardly in her middle school class. She was close to being fired, probably would have been if not for the public supoort that came out in her favor. As it was the "Administrative Educators" made her go to sensitivity training, forced her to publicly apoligize for teaching the word, and put a letter of warning (or whatever they call their disciplinary letters) in her file.

Now which do you think is more reprehensible, calling a kid's parents immoral and/or unethical or teaching a word that means miserly? Which teacher do you think will be punished harder?”

“yes violin, that's why i can't spell worth a crap. my 3 boys attend them as well. if i could afford it(vouchers) i would send them to private school, where education, not politcal ideology, was the ONLY focus.


shup tilt, o'reailly is the king ! he rips repubs all the time. i agree with him alot more than i agree with limbaugh.


dear phaedrus......

no, i said you called me stupid and you reitterated the point.



i told you why i car..... cuz i am disappointed you turned out be be just another jerk.....

all your 'compassionate thinking', your 'touchy-feely, love-not-hate attitudes and demeanor completely looses it's credibility when insult someone that way. you finally got down to what you really "feel" inside. the "real' you is now exposed. it's all a sham, a front. you're really just a jerk.......


have a great day a-hole”

“Hey Strat,
You know I usually stay out of these right/left diatribes, but the pattern is hilarious. You cast out the "libs are evil" lure, as big and obvious as it is, and get the same bites every time. I guess its all about the thrill of the sport.”

“Pfft.

All the hard-nosed each-man-for-himself, more-american-than-you, self-reliant, fight-fire-with-fire conservatism that has been your rhetoric for the past few months is what's exposed.

You get slighted when I make fun of you, but you have all the leeway in the world to libel me with your constant canned propaganda and your constant questioning of my loyalty to country and morality.

If you can't handle the heat, don't start fires.”

“Oh, and strat, you might recall that I've stood up for you on more than one occasion where I felt someone was giving you crap you didn't deserve, so don't pretend it doesn't cut both ways.”

“A few teachers do something, which if true, was very wrong, therefore every liberal is bad. Does that mean that Republicans should be responsible for the actions of all extreme right wing groups?”

“ynami has finally hit the nail on the head. Thank you for pointing out how the left has been treating the right for years and years. Don't like the taste of your own medicine do you?”

“How am I getting my own medicine? I'm saying both examples are wrong?”

“Wow, hyway, what a perfect example!

You must be in good shape, jumping to all those conclusions!”

“your girlfriend left you
was it your anti-war stance
or just your bad gas?
”

“OY! Get out of here, me!”

“because the example you mentioned is, and has been for a long time, a common practice by the left when referencing anything done by any member of the right. To say otherwise shows that you just don't want to face reality.”

“Seig Heil, you-all.”

“Lovely bit of reasoning! Let me see if I can do that too:

Dogs are really cats in disguise. To say different is to ignore true reality.

Did I get the idea?”

“So you are saying that when Duke ran for office in mississippi or alabama that the left was using that to paint the entire Republican party. Or when those idiots in laramie (?) pretended to be gay just so they could kill the young gay man that the left didn't use it as an indictment of the entire right side of political spectrum, or ... you know, there really is no point in any of this. You folks on the left think of yourselves as protectors of the light and unable to do wrong, that you are so open minded and multiculturally correct, but it just isn't true. and you refuse to face the reality that you really aren't open to any ideas that are different than yours.”

“So what you're saying is that using this extreme example involving a small number of people to criticize all people with 'liberal' views is wrong?”

“Its always been wrong, but apparently I am in the minority with that view. But so is speeding, but if 90% of the drivers are driving 60 in a 55, you might as well drive 60 too or risk getting run down by those in the wrong.”

“No matter what I say, you'll label me as liberal and dismiss the view. Have a lovely and conservative day.

Ynami, I think this may be a case where the law of Ultimate Futility applies.”

“Duke ran for office in Louisiana, not MS or AL.
The good people of LA had a choice of a known crook (Edwards) or a known ex-klan head (Duke).
They held their noses and elected the crook. Convicted Edwards of some other things later.”

“yeah garfum, the more full of crap they are, the harder they fall....nothing like the smell of smoked liberal in the morning....



phaed, you didn't make fun of me. you called me stupid. as you have done several times in the past. if it was making fun, i'd laugh....like i laugh at alot of the stuff you say. this is different. you actually believe i am stupid. i don't hide my views, i expose myself everytime i speak... and thats what drives you nuts about me. and to you, it makes me dumb. you actually look down at me, as if you are better than i. it's very unattractive. like i said, i like your personality, but now i know, you're really an a-hole IRL. if you were just making fun, you would have apologized by now, instead of justifying your ugly demeanor. you would say that you didn't really mean that you think i am stupid, instead of shifting blame and changing the subject...


to me, that makes you disingenuios....”

“I see it this way.

If, and I mean if, this occured in the manner indicated (and there is at least some confusion in my mind as to what any individual teacher did)....

then this is not about liberal or conservative, democrat or republican...those terms are simply irrelevant

This is about human descency. Anyone who would take up an issue like that with a 7 y/o school child is a moron. I don't care if they are black, white, liberal, conservative, Muslim, Christian, agnostic or gay.

The problem that everyone has is trying to sterotype the wrong doers with the groups that they oppose.

Oh, a teacher does something wrong..the evil LIBERAL NEA must be involved. Come on stratdewd, you are better than that.

Oh, someone killed a gay man....those conservative right wing neo extremists must be involved. What a lame argument.

This is a matter of what is right or wrong from a much higher perspective than such meaningless labels than political idealology.

There are some Moral standards should be uniform across party lines. To me, this is clearly one of them.”

“phaedrus, you are digressing 9actually we all are). Your point was that, "ho hum, so a few kids were told there daddy is immoral and/or unethical, big deal" My point was that it is a big deal, especially since it is the left that set the standards on how a teacher should be held up for public abuse for expressing an opinion.

That is the core of this thread. You are wrong in your assessment of the seriousness of the actions of those teachers. But since it is from Fox News you discounted it immediately. So it seems you were talking about yourself when you talked about labeling and dismissing views.”

“phaed, you didn't make fun of me. you called me stupid. as you have done several times in the past. if it was making fun, i'd laugh....like i laugh at alot of the stuff you say. this is different. you actually believe i am stupid. i don't hide my views, i expose myself everytime i speak... and thats what drives you nuts about me. and to you, it makes me dumb. you actually look down at me, as if you are better than i. it's very unattractive. like i said, i like your personality, but now i know, you're really an a-hole IRL. if you were just making fun, you would have apologized by now, instead of justifying your ugly demeanor. you would say that you didn't really mean that you think i am stupid, instead of shifting blame and changing the subject...


to me, that makes you disingenuios.

The last thing I want to do is appear disingenuous. I'm not sorry I ridiculed you. That should make it clearer. You have done so to me and others about sensitive issues in the past, and have openly enjoyed taunting me. Fine, you don't see me whining about it. Just because you're sensitive about this particular issue doesn't mean you get a pass on it, when you actively try to push other peoples' buttons.

Plainly put, if you stop, I will, but don't expect that just because you're "speaking your mind", you get to be insulting and not get insulted back.”

“Actually, highway, I would support corrective action against any teacher who said: "Your parents are immoral for going to war." I would not support the same action against a teacher who said: "I believe the war in Iraq is unethical."

One is an attack on the people involved, the other is a judgement on the political action. They are very different, and I didn't get the impression from the news story that they were making that distinction. That bothers me.”

“You get slighted when I make fun of you, but you have all the leeway in the world to libel me with your constant canned propaganda and your constant questioning of my loyalty to country and morality.

If you can't handle the heat, don't start fires."
Phaedrus
09:12:10 AM
02/28/03

Libeled? Did I miss something?”

“This is exactly why the U.S. is circling the drain. It's those facist Republicans! Nu uh! it's those pinko bleeding heart Democrats!

Meanwhile the politicians are robbing us blind! Wake up and smell the catfood gentle people!

If a teacher is calling a kids mom or dad a babykiller than they should get fired! I don't think anybody will argue with that.

Stop being partisan, and start thinking about our future you whinney ass facist pinko bandwagon jumpers”

“Here is a question for liberals and conservatives alike.

Why is the debate always over the something the far left or far right has done? Next time, ask yourself if the argument you are making is nearest the exteme or centrist side of your political spectrum?”

“I think it's all part of the problem Bacpac. And is the argument you are making diversionary or actually apropriate to the current dialog. I don't consider myself on one side or the other of every argument. And I think it's funny when average people can.”

“Read this "non NPR right wing propaganda".
It may help you feel better about being called stupid. ;)”

“Until I see a full report from a legitimate news service, this appears to be a small fluke of a story blown out of proportion by Roger Ailes to stifle dissent.”

“CNN finally runs part of the story.
Day late and a dollar short.”

“SS, not all news organizations run the same stories on the same day - all credit to Fox for breaking it. But you have to put things in perspective. With nightclub fires, an approaching war in Iraq, events with the economy, the issues at the United Nations and other major events in the world, a few upset kids is not a major story worth rushing a team out to cover. It's worth covering certainly, but you can't complain when a news organizations does run something, then complain when they do.”

“make that doesn't run something”

“Strat, these people aren't worth your time man, mine either. That's the last time I'm looking at one of these political threads. Let's do some hiking.”

“Sure I can. It's the american way. ;)
Bye the way, were did you come up with that posting name?
Earn an easyer trail name on one of our trips and more people will reply to your posts. ;)”

“were=where”

“I don't seem to remember the political party affiliation of the boys who beat Matthew Shepherd and left him to die. Would it or could it matter when someone has done something so obviously wrong? I don't remember any so-called liberal press agency taking them to task for being right-wingers. It doesnt' even come into play, given the nature of the crime. I don't know why Hyway would use that as an example.
To tie that to this argument. If children were harrassed, do we know the political affiliation of those who allegedly harrassed them? Would it matter, given that any harrassment of children should be immediately punishable? Why does this get picked up by Rush and politicized? I don't think he knows: 1. if it is true 2. who did it or why 3. how it will be addressed by school officials. He has already made political hay out of it and is down the road by the time we find out the facts.”

“I will have to do that stove :o) - it's an African River god a rafting guide told me about while I was there, I just liked the name but I'm open to change.”

“okay Bye!


These stories report thirdhand allegations. Think about it folks: Third Hand Allegations. The National Guard guy said that the parents said that the children said that a teacher's assistant said...

Doesn't that seem the least bit 'thin' to you?”

“Nope. It's as thick as molasses. I heard on the radio that liberals are behind it. Must be true.”

“Ha!”

“Let me post this for those who won't bother reading that article the whole way through:

Gen. Joseph Tinkham II, commissioner of defense and veterans services, said there were no incidents of educators taunting children, as had been reported in some national media outlets.


Hmmm... Almost like a media frenzy over nothing, huh?

Tell me again all about the liberal news media.”

“Ya know, there have been a number of outspoken conservative critics of the war – you might be jumping the gun by assuming their political affiliation.

According to the Bangor Daily News there was only one instance of a teachers aid taking an “anti-war side”. Some other parents felt that teachers should be more sensitive when a child had to leave school early because of a service related issue with a parent. Also one student was teased on the bus because his parents were in the military. It was all derived from anecdotes told to Guard family assistance centers.

Bangor Daily News reports that Army National Guard spokesman Maj. Peter Rogers was pleased with the education department’s response.

Commissioner of Education J. Duke Albanese said that as of last Friday, ”his department had received "no phone calls, e-mails or faxes... Usually parents would come to us and let us know their concerns."”


I can’t really understand how one possible incident involving a teacher’s aid could get so politicized and gain national attention. Oh wait a minute: ”