Children of Military harassed

“That Rush Limbaugh sure is a deep-digging investigative journalist!

And Impartial! WOW!”

“I can’t really understand how one possible incident involving a teacher’s aid could get so politicized and gain national attention. Oh wait a minute: rushlimbaugh.com At least we know where the “baby-killer” business came from. So much for detached unemotional thinking. Just who is being brainwashed?”

“#&%!$

I read one page of Limbaugh and my brain goes to mush. Try cut&paste for the link:
http://rushlimbaugh.com/home/daily/site_022703/content/see_i_told_you_so.guest.html”

“You guys are so dishonest it isn't even funny anymore. The sad thing is that you think that you are so openminded. If someone says a parent is complaining about their child be veballing abused by anti-war teachers, then you all jump on the lets wait for the whole story to come out then grasp at strawmen to say that noone was harsh they just might have stated their belief that the war is unethical (even if that is the extent of it you still don't say that to a 7 yo who father just left to fight in that war.) But if their is even the slightest of hint that some teacher or other public servant has done something politically uncorrect then you guys come out of the woodwork like a salem witchhunt, the truth be damned.”

“There is hope for many who posted on this thread.”

“Hyway, are you upset about what you see as partisan views or the fact that they are not YOUR partisan views?

Whatever the sace, I'll quote it again

Gen. Joseph Tinkham II, commissioner of defense and veterans services, said there were no incidents of educators taunting children, as had been reported in some national media outlets.


Who are YOU going to burn in YOUR witch hunt?”

“sace = CASE

My lesdyxia is at it again!”

“LMFAO@kleetn!”

“State: Be sensitive to Guard children


By DAVID HENCH, Portland Press Herald Writer

Copyright © 2003 Blethen Maine Newspapers Inc.

Gov. John Baldacci and the state's top education and defense officials moved to allay the concerns of Maine's citizen soldiers Thursday after national media picked up reports that school personnel had been insensitive to guardsmen's children.

Baldacci said he was disappointed to learn from the Maine National Guard that it had received a dozen complaints through its family assistance centers about children feeling harassed or upset over the way schools handled the possible U.S. invasion of Iraq and their parents' military service.

"I am disappointed and disturbed by reports that a few insensitive staff members at Maine schools recently made comments that have caused concern and anxiety for the children of National Guard members," Baldacci said at a news conference. "Although these were isolated incidents, there is no place for them in Maine schools."

The complaints were received at family assistance meetings in Portland, Bangor and Augusta after Army Guard units in Bangor and Sanford were called up, said Maj. Peter Rogers, spokesman for the Maine National Guard. He would not identify the schools or the families, but said in one case, a middle school educator described the pending war with Iraq as "unethical and immoral" as was anyone who would fight in it. He said the incidents left children upset and confused.

"I certainly don't believe anybody has done this maliciously," Rogers said. "It may simply have been someone expressing an opinion who may not even have known a Guard member's child was in the classroom."

Rogers said the Guard has confirmed the complaints, though the parents involved have not sought intervention by the state or the Guard, choosing instead to deal directly with their schools.

Gen. Joseph Tinkham II, commissioner of defense and veterans services, said there were no incidents of educators taunting children, as had been reported in some national media outlets.

Rogers said the Guard is not upset with Maine educators. "A lot of the educators are actually guardsmen who are doing a fantastic job out there," he said.

Education Commissioner J. Duke Albanese said the anecdote recounted to him by the head of the Maine National Guard involved a teaching assistant who had been instructed to assume an anti-war position during a class debate. It is unclear whether that incident and the one described by Rogers are the same. The Guard did not provide details to the Education Department.

In two other cases referred to by Guard officials, an administrator refused to grant an excused absence to a student seeing off a parent being deployed, and a guidance counselor was insensitive to the needs of a child. The complaints also involve incidents of teasing by students.

Rogers said he didn't know the particulars of the complaints, such as how many stemmed from comments from teachers, other school personnel or other students, or how many took place in the classroom, elsewhere in the school or on buses.

Albanese said he believes the incidents are isolated and relatively rare given the 46,000 people working in Maine schools.

"But the children that were affected are real children and these are sensitive times for these kids," he said. "To think of dad or mom going away into what may be a life-threatening situation, we want to make sure people are sensitive."

He responded to the complaints by issuing a memo to all school districts urging staff to be sensitive to the needs of children whose parents may be leaving to face grave danger.

The memo advised teachers and staff to provide balanced information in classrooms that present different perspectives on the conflict with Iraq. He said discussion should allow for questions and differences of opinion, but "be grounded in civil discourse and mutual respect."

"Regarding instruction, most educators are being careful in their teaching about America's response to Iraq, although some reports indicate otherwise," Albanese wrote.

The Maine Guard has heard no new complaints since the memo was issued Tuesday, Rogers said.

The memo did catch the media's attention. By Thursday, newspapers in Washington, major broadcast networks and radio talk shows, including Rush Limbaugh's and Oliver North's, were reporting the story or calling state officials for comment.

Lee Umphrey, Baldacci's director of communications, said the state and its educators have in some outlets been unfairly criticized as unsupportive of National Guardsmen and their families.

"It's clear these are isolated incidents around the state," Umphrey said. "I think it's unfair for the national media to latch onto it as they have."

Rob Walker, president of the Maine Education Association and a teacher for 29 years in Lewiston, said the complaints, while unfortunate, are relatively few considering the 17,000 teachers at work in Maine schools.

"I think most educators are aware of the power and influence they have over a classroom. . . . The educator always has to be careful about forcing their views on everybody else," Walker said. "If there is a problem, it's a local problem and I'm sure local administrators are dealing with it, and if discipline is warranted, I'm sure it will be commensurate with what went wrong."


Note to TTers, I didn't want to link to the story because it will be gone tomorrow.”

“GEO! This is already posted at the bottom of page 1!”

“Sorry!”

“Bad Geo! Thump yourself with a newspaper and go hide under the bed.”

“Doesn't look like too many people expressing opinions read it very well though.”

“I think you guys are just enamored by the sound of keys clicking beneath your fingers.”

“I can only quote so many of the relevent portions of the text before I get tired of copying and pasting, though.

Some people, however, NEVER get tired of copying and pasting.”

“Of course we know that Geobeet could never be enamored of His own words...

Simply not possible, LOL”

“Oh man, this is a classic TT political thread, complete with Kleetns irreverence. Ya gotta love it.

I looked at the National Education Website and saw not one thing liberal about it, unless you consider educating children liberal. Maybe Strat is confusing it with the National Endowment for the Arts, also called the NEA, and a horrible, evil, BASTION of liberalism :)”

“Educate children? What, you want them to be able to discern circular logic, or something? How on earth will they ever be able to watch Rush Limbaugh after they're brainwashed like that?

COMMUNIST!”

“Sounds like a military officer said that the harrassment didn't happen. I want to hear the argument against that.”

“You mean Gen. Joseph Tinkham II, commissioner of defense and veterans services?

He must be a liberal!”

“So now you guys are gonna say our military commanders are above reproach and would never attempt to mislead the public. Lets see how long you will stick with that approach.”

“Lock Step, Lock Step, Lock Step...

Phaedrus show some compassion. The child's parent is leaving for War. This is not a right or wrong issue. The children need compassion not opinion. I don't think anyone accused the teachers of taunting. Some of the teachers allowed their political views to take precidence over the emotional needs of the children.

You debate items on this board like you have something personal at stake. Lighten up.”

“Uh, no, spin-doctor hyway.

The issue is that this offense was supposedly perpetrated against military families. He wouldn't really have a motive for lying here, now would he?”

“Bacpac, I'm just tickled to see the conservative media outlets doing the exact thing that conservatives consistently complain about from the other side.”

“Plus, may I point out, the harrassment was alleged to have taken place at over fifteen different schools? Now it sounds like one teachers aide being a jerk. Hide under the bed! The Libs is comin' to get us Martha!!!!”

“LOL!”

“There may have been accusations of taunting. I did not see all the reports. I doubt teachers taunted their students. The General may have been answering a specific question regarding taunting.”

“What happened to the lockstep?”

“I am happy that the kneejerk fanatacism bred by the Political Correct Movement has finally started to come back on those who perpetrated it in the first place. Wrong it may be, but that has never stopped the witch hunts from the PC crowd. Now maybe we can stop be so freaking sensitive and get on with our lives.

Everytime I see you guys applaud each others comments I can't help but think of those two saturday night comics/actors in the movie "A Night at the Roxbury".”

“Who's PC you talkin' about, Willis? Right-wing PC, or left-wing PC?”

“If there was such a bird that had a right and left PC wings the poor thing would fly in circles do to the small size of it right-wing PC and its overblown left wing PC.”

“What happened to the lockstep?"
Dunadan
07:19:14 PM
02/28/03

Lock Step refers to the pattern of behavior I have observed by Liberals.

The Liberals have expressed an overwhelming opposition to War with Iraq. They blame George Bush for being a War Monger. The National Press has held a critical postion against a war with Iraq.

OK, George Bush is a War Monger.

What about all the Democratic Congressmen and Senators who voted for the War? They are blameless, because now they have changed their position and are in Lock Step with the Liberal Media?

Too little, too late for a reasonable man.

Lock Step, Lock Step, Lock Step....”

“and New Englanders are the worse”

“We saw the same thing with Bill Clinton and the Gore election.

Oops, Non-election.

Get a clue.”

“What about all the Democratic Congressmen and Senators who voted for the War? They are blameless, because now they have changed their position and are in Lock Step with the Liberal Media?

Too little, too late for a reasonable man

In the house:

In the final vote of 133 to 296, 126 Democrats voted against and 81 voted for the resolution.

In the senate:

a vote of 23 opposed and 77 in favor of the resolution authorizing the use of military force against Iraq. 21 of the opposed were democrats.

The rest have to answer to their constituents.”

“Plainly put, if you stop, I will, but don't expect that just because you're "speaking your mind", you get to be insulting and not get insulted back."
Phaedrus


ok, stupid....”

“Strat. Keep your chin up, old boy.”

“Turns out this story is another lie from the ‘fair and balanced’ right wing press:


Tuesday, March 4, 2003
Flap over war criticism in schools ends swiftly
By TESS NACELEWICZ, Portland Press Herald Writer

Hank Ogilby has been teaching government at Freeport High School for about nine years, but he's never told his students what political party he belongs to or whom he votes for.
Sharing that information, he said, might create a bias in the way they think about him, either positively or negatively.

"I usually don't share my opinion unless I'm asked, and if a student asks, I still may not share my opinion," Ogilby said. "I think it can compromise the learning environment."

A few days after a flap over some educators in Maine schools allegedly making inappropriate, negative comments to members of military families, the head of the Maine Army National Guard says it has been blown out of proportion. And Maine teachers say educators typically take an even-handed approach to sensitive issues in the classroom.

"We try to put as many ideas and opinions out there on the table and leave it up to them to make up their minds," Ogilby said, referring to how teachers conduct discussions with students on such controversial issues as the possible U.S. invasion of Iraq.

However, accusations surfaced last week that some Maine educators were making insensitive comments to the children of guardsmen and their parents. The story was picked up by national and international media.

Now, National Guard Maj. Gen. Joseph Tinkham is saying that national media figures, including conservative radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh and television commentator Bill O'Reilly, exaggerated the extent and nature of the problem.

National Guard spokesman Maj. Peter Rogers said Monday that one Washington paper reported that teachers were taunting and harassing kids. "We never said that," Rogers said.

He said the complaints were only about a tiny proportion of Maine's educators. "Everyone we know has been tremendous with the kids," he said. "They're professionals. Many of them are guards themselves."

The complaints were made through National Guard family assistance centers around the state. They ranged from a claim that an assistant teacher called the looming war "unethical and immoral" in a high school classroom debate, to a parent's report that a child had been mocked by other children on a school bus and school officials said there was nothing they could do.

There's uncertainty about how many complaints were made. Last week the office of Gov. John Baldacci - who said he was "disappointed and disturbed" by the reports - said the complaints numbered 12. However, Rogers on Monday said the total is 16.

At the same time, some educators are concerned that the National Guard is releasing very little information about the complaints. Rob Walker, president of the Maine Education Association, whose 25,000 members include teachers and other school staff, said that "at this point, there are accusations out there and there is nothing specific."

Walker said the complaints could be handled as private personnel matters at the local level. "How do you solve the problem unless you can get at the whole truth?" he asked.
But Rogers said Monday that the Guard doesn't want to reopen the issue. He said there have been no more complaints since Education Commissioner J. Duke Albanese - after being informed about the National Guard's concerns - issued a memo last week to schools around the state reminding educators to use a balanced teaching approach and to be sensitive to all students.

"In our eyes the problem is solved," Rogers said. "The children aren't being subjected to that anymore."

The National Guard has not said which schools were involved or who the participants were. And it described just a handful of the 16 complaints.

Albanese on Monday said he has received no details of the complaints. He said the families and the National Guard have agreed that each family will make its own decision on whether to share details with local school officials or the state Department of Education.

Rogers said the complaints were gathered by Maj. Andrew Gibson, a Guard chaplain, at meetings where relatives of deployed soldiers get information and support. Rogers said Gibson did not investigate the complaints but "feels very strongly that they are correct."
In addition to the complaints about the classroom debate and a child being mocked on the bus, the Guard has described these three other complaints:

A soldier at the Bangor meeting said that when he took his children from school early to say goodbye, he was told it would be an unexcused absence.

Another soldier reported that when he asked a school guidance counselor to watch for changes in his child's demeanor or behavior, the counselor said, "You're in the Army, aren't you? Your child should be able to deal with it."

Another parent said that when she told the school principal that her child had been teased by other children who said her father could be killed in the war, she was told there was nothing school officials could do because the other children were right and what the child's father was doing was wrong.

However, teachers interviewed Monday said they don't know of any educators who would behave as reported. Tom Major, a history teacher at South Portland High School, said, "Frankly, I can't imagine what was suggested happened."

In fact, he said that when his sophomore world history class talked about the National Guard controversy on Monday, one student asked why teachers are always asking students for their opinions but don't share their own.

Major said that airing his own views to students "is not on my agenda. It's not about me getting out my opinions, it's about me provoking their thought."”

“Where in that story does it say it was a lie? They said it had happened, gave examples, but said it was blown out of proportion.

The military does not like controversy in which they can't kill someone, so in situations like this they tell their people to clam up. There is nothing in this article that changes my intial opinion that a handfull of teachers and admins acted like jerks and that they should be held to the same standards as if they said someones mom was in the wrong for being a lesbian.”

“hyway...the unexcused absence story, if true, would probably have come from an office employee not a teacher..as to a guidance counselor watching changes in each child's behavior...not possible. High school guidance counselors in large high schools are responsible for several hundred students, and without someone alerting a counselor to an issue, the counselor would be hard pressed to follow a single kid around, and if an administrator said what is claimed this principal said about the situation, that principal
should have been fired.

There is nothing in the article that convinces me the story is anything but conjecture blown out of proportion and latched onto by O'Reilly. I taught in Maine for 30+ years, and I am currently substituting in California schools.
Never in my entire career have I witnessed or heard about examples of insensitivity such as are purported in the original coverage.”

“I thought putting the relevant section in bold font would help hyway.”

“i saw your bold and I commented on it. military brass frown on their subbordinates getting in pissing matches with the media or any other public group. So one part of the bruhaha was blown out of proportion, the meat of the original article that started this thread is still essentially correct.”

“Wasn’t the claim that: “Military Kids Allegedly Harassed at School -- by Teachers”?”

“Inflammatory headlines sell newspapers (and television time).

See Talk Radio.

The actual story frequently doesn't back up these 'headlines'... but some people only pay attention to the headlines and hit-and-run television reports.”

“You stated the story was a lie.”

“Read the full story again bacpac. If the latest from the Portland Press Herald is fact, the Faux story is a lie.”

“The good part about this is that the folks at fox news won't be having any more children, now that they've burned their genitalia with the "pants on fire" trick.

Nyyaaa nyaaa nayaaa nayaaa!”

“The complaints were made through National Guard family assistance centers around the state. They ranged from a claim that an assistant teacher called the looming war "unethical and immoral" in a high school classroom debate, to a parent's report that a child had been mocked by other children on a school bus and school officials said there was nothing they could do

Bacpac, are you reliving some old wounds?

I thought the original context of this story had to do with grade-school kids. There's a big difference.

Oh, and by the way, kids tease each other. It's the way of the world, so try not to be so emotional about it.”

“oh man that's a good one phaed....HAAHAHHAAAAHAAAA!

strat was teased in school, HAHHAAHAA!

so was bacpac, HAHAAAHAAAHA!”