Economy UP

“McCain is running for PRESIDENT. Only a feeble pariah of his own party would try and spin the financial demise of the most powerful nation on earth into a political stunt for his presidential campaign, UNLESS, he really had the solution. He didn't because HIS party, the party of no regulation and oversight (well, unless, of course, it's what you are doing in your house, and then they'll spend a LOT of TIME AND MONEY trying to tell you what you can and can't do), FAILED HEARTILY to put the brakes on shotty, crazy interest rate loans. they aren't solely to blame, for sure, but there's a Republican Administration in the White House who's shown repeatedly, ad nauseum, they are incompetent at handling national and international matters effectively. McCain is going down because his party is going to drag him down. End of story.”

“Face it. McCain was grandstanding and got caught with his pants around his ankles.”

“Hiker19B4...

nice torll you got there 5arge
last edited: 9/30/08 11:15:32 AM”

“Sarge? Sarge is as right wing as John Birch was.”

“i don't know why people care. that bill was a bad bill and it SHOULD NOT have passed. as far as i am concerned it is one of the (very) few GOOD things the democratically controlled congress has done.”

“I certainly have my issues with President Bush, and even though he tried many times to reign in the big financial institutions most responsible for this latest crisis, it was the Clinton Administration, the Democrats-,especially Barney Frank and Chris Dodd and Barack Obama's own economic adviser, Frank Raines who are most responsible for this mess. Check out the New York Times article from September 30th, 1999, and it will fill you in on when the stage was set for this disaster.”

“whoa strat, only republican presidents can be held accountable for what the opposition party does in congress. Democrats are so pathetic that when they hold congress everything that happens is presidents fault because he signed the bill while democratic presidents are so weak they have no choice but to bend over and sign the bills the republicans put in front of him.”

“Even if you were right cutnpastedood, a decade is not nearly enough time to get anything accomplished...”

“My point being, the last eight years of a Republican administration has not been nearly enough time to correct this obviously egregious error made by the Democrats. Wouldn't you agree??”

“The proper answer here is to let private institutions that make bad decisions fail. No government bailout. There is only one mitigating factor in favor of intervention – and that would be the Democrat's involvement in the Community Reinvestment Act and support for various community groups (like Obama's ACORN) who used laws passed by Democrats to browbeat private institutions into making these bad loans.

Who is ACORN and what do they have to do with Obamanation? A LOT! Here's a synopsis of some of the different cases against ACORN, just in this election season alone. Are you starting to understand what is going on here, folks? These are not isolated incidents. Now as you read of these incidents remember, please, that during Obama's days as a community organizer he was deeply involved with ACORN.

Washington
July 26, 2007,Seattle Times
Felony charges filed against 7 in state's biggest case of voter-registration fraud. The defendants, who were paid employees and supervisors of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now

Michigan
September 14, 2008, Detroit Free Press
Several municipal clerks across the state are reporting fraudulent and duplicate voter registration applications, most of them from a nationwide community activist group working to help low- and moderate-income families.The majority of the problem applications are coming from the group ACORN, Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now ...

Florida
Oct. 13, 2007, PRNewswire
A Florida state attorney is investigating thousands of potentially fraudulent voter registrations associated with the leading organizer of Florida's Amendment 5 ballot initiative. But this is just the tip of an iceberg of illegalities, fraud and contradictions connected to the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now (ACORN) ... Former ACORN Miami-Dade field director Mac Stuart has declared an intent to sue ACORN and has made charges of rampant voter fraud operations. Stuart was employed and specifically tasked by ACORN to generate 103,000 new voter registrations from Dade County. He reports that ACORN threw out Republican registrations while paying for Democratic ones. Stuart also charges that ACORN targeted ex-cons and that he personally set up registration tables outside the Miami police department and Dade County jail.

New Mexico
Sept. 18, 2008, Judicial Watch Blog
This week officials in New Mexico's most populous county (Bernalillo) notified federal authorities that more than 1,000 fraudulent voter registration cards were submitted to the clerk's office. ACORN, which pays workers for each registration, is the prime suspect since it has handled thousands of new voter registrations in New Mexico since January. County workers subsequently discovered that at least 1,100 new registrations list Social Security numbers for people already in the county's database of registered voters, names of registered voters with different birth dates and addresses that don't exist.

Wisconsin
Aug. 6, 2008, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Criminal investigations could be launched against at least six voter registration workers who tried to add dead, imprisoned or imaginary people to the voter rolls, according to the Milwaukee Election Commission and the organization that employed them. "One woman called us to complain because her husband has been dead for 10 years and a voter registration was submitted," Edman said. In about 12 cases, deputy registrars paid by ACORN were "making people up or registering people that were still in prison," said Carolyn Castore, ACORN's state political director. And in other cases, workers used the same address for numerous voters or used driver's license numbers that did not fit the voters' birth dates, Edman said. But most of the fraud involved submitting duplicate cards for voters who were already registered, and forging the voters' signatures, Castore said.

Ohio
August 27, 2008, The Plain Dealer
A national organization that conducts voter registration drives for low-income people has curtailed its push in Cuyahoga County after the Board of Elections accused its workers of submitting fraudulent registration cards. Board employees said ACORN workers often handed in the same name on a number of voter registration cards, but showing that person living at different addresses. Other times, cards had the same name listed, but a different date of birth. Still another sign of possible fraud showed a number of people living at an address that turned out to be a restaurant. ACORN has submitted about 75,000 voter registration cards to the Cuyahoga board this year.

Pennsylvania
Sept. 18, 2008, The Bulletin: Philadelphia's Family Newspaper
A community organization, with longstanding ties to Barack Obama, has, according to numerous reports, repeatedly run afoul of voter registration laws both locally and nationally. Philadelphia election officials recently accused ACORN, of filing multiple fraudulent voter registrations during the 2008 Pennsylvania primary. The case has been referred to the U.S. Attorney's office, according to Philadelphia Deputy Election Commissioner Fred Voight. Delaware County election officials have made similar allegations against the group, and criminal indictments are pending. This past July 24, Dauphin County detectives offered a $2,000 reward for information about the whereabouts of Luis R. Torres-Serrano, an ACORN worker, who was accused of submitting more than 100 fraudulent voter registrations.

Nevada
July 7,2008, Las Vegas Review Journal
ACORN, which stands for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, claims to have collected 60,000 new voter registrations in Clark County since February ... Lomax said while he supports the goal of getting more people registered to vote, he sees rampant fraud in the 2,000 to 3,000 registrations ACORN turns in every week.”

“O'S DANGEROUS PALS
BARACK'S 'ORGANIZER' BUDS PUSHED FOR BAD MORTGAGES

By STANLEY KURTZ
Chutzpah: ACORN's drive to lower mortgage standards paved the way for the meltdown - yet last week, it was holding protests like this one in Florida, trying to get a cut of the financial-market-rescue bill.
Chutzpah: ACORN's drive to lower mortgage standards paved the way for the meltdown - yet last week, it was holding protests like this one in Florida, trying to get a cut of the financial-market-rescue bill.

Posted: 3:53 am
September 29, 2008

WHAT exactly does a "community organizer" do? Barack Obama's rise has left many Americans asking themselves that question. Here's a big part of the answer: Community organizers intimidate banks into making high-risk loans to customers with poor credit.

In the name of fairness to minorities, community organizers occupy private offices, chant inside bank lobbies, and confront executives at their homes - and thereby force financial institutions to direct hundreds of millions of dollars in mortgages to low-credit customers.

In other words, community organizers help to undermine the US economy by pushing the banking system into a sinkhole of bad loans. And Obama has spent years training and funding the organizers who do it.

THE seeds of today's financial meltdown lie in the Community Reinvestment Act - a law passed in 1977 and made riskier by unwise amendments and regulatory rulings in later decades.

CRA was meant to encourage banks to make loans to high-risk borrowers, often minorities living in unstable neighborhoods. That has provided an opening to radical groups like ACORN (the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now) to abuse the law by forcing banks to make hundreds of millions of dollars in "subprime" loans to often uncreditworthy poor and minority customers.

Any bank that wants to expand or merge with another has to show it has complied with CRA - and approval can be held up by complaints filed by groups like ACORN.

In fact, intimidation tactics, public charges of racism and threats to use CRA to block business expansion have enabled ACORN to extract hundreds of millions of dollars in loans and contributions from America's financial institutions.

Banks already overexposed by these shaky loans were pushed still further in the wrong direction when government-sponsored Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac began buying up their bad loans and offering them for sale on world markets.

Fannie and Freddie acted in response to Clinton administration pressure to boost home ownership rates among minorities and the poor. However compassionate the motive, the result of this systematic disregard for normal credit standards has been financial disaster.

ONE key pioneer of ACORN's subprime-loan shakedown racket was Madeline Talbott - an activist with extensive ties to Barack Obama. She was also in on the ground floor of the disastrous turn in Fannie Mae's mortgage policies.

Long the director of Chicago ACORN, Talbott is a specialist in "direct action" - organizers' term for their militant tactics of intimidation and disruption. Perhaps her most famous stunt was leading a group of ACORN protesters breaking into a meeting of the Chicago City Council to push for a "living wage" law, shouting in defiance as she was arrested for mob action and disorderly conduct. But her real legacy may be her drive to push banks into making risky mortgage loans.”

“OH man, you are such a broken cutnpaste record. Time to change the station...”

“seeya!”

“In other words, community organizers help to undermine the US economy by pushing the banking system into a sinkhole of bad loans. And Obama has spent years training and funding the organizers who do it.

--From strat's cut and paste.

That is so friggin hilarious it is priceless.

I hope the black helicopters don't fly over tonight, I might get forced into borrowing some money I can't afford to pay back.”

“as funny as saying that was the only cause is saying it had no roll in the debacle.”

“And Black Helicopters might fly out of your ass.”

“WTF are you talking about? What specific "conservative ideology" are you referring to that makes banks issue risky loans to people forced to take them even when they can't pay them back? What "conservative ideology" triggers the foreclosure of the bad loan and the repackaging of the debt to try to turn the turd of an investment into something of value?

Respectfully, I know you think everything is political when interpreted correctly, but to lay the blame for this on "conservative ideology" is a pretty gross generalization that demonstrates a basic lack of understanding of the problem.

I feel sorry for all the people that lost their homes. I do NOT feel sorry for the banks that loaned the money. They should be allowed to reach the end-result of their actions which, I believe, is about to happen. The people that owned the homes that these banks foreclosed on already have...”
Yogisan
10:41:25 AM
9/30/08

Specifically Yogi - the rolling back of regulation put in place when people have abused the system before - and the screwing of the middle classes, and the failure to press regulation even when the rules exist in law.
The placement of political stooges in regulatory positions throughout government.

Like I said - a conservative problem.

And tilt's boring little troll.

This was a GOP BILL TO SOLVE A GOP PROBLEM - they were asking the Democrats to solve a problem the GOP created.

Seriously - not a pair between any of you... 'but but but... it's someone else's fault mommy - we have to be right.... boo hoo hoo'”

“but but but - any form of sensible regulation to protect the middle classes and the future of America is communism..... it's those silly libbies who are wrong.

Ok, markets have boom and bust cycles.... the more out of control you let the get the bigger the bust will be. Whether we can cope with the potential bust we may get now is another thing. There are too many people and we're too far from subsistence living for people to support themselves.

At the very heart of conservative ideology is that you let markets run free - the freer you let them run the bigger the crash will be. This is seen is good in the long run as you see creative destruction as the economy renews stronger than before.
last edited: 9/30/08 1:57:55 PM”

“The Dow was up 485 today.”

“because Wall Street is calculating that the bill will be passed with a few modifications.”

“yeah, right... "calculating that the bill will be passed"... is this the level of analysis you use to make all your investment decisions?

as if the bill will fix anything. the key here is "bail out"... not fix.

they were greedy people trying to scoop up bargins expecting an uptick in the market.

the real pain hasn't even begun.”

“No Yogi - But I don't try to day trade. But it is where the bump came from today. Another step backwards in the bailout and it'll slump again.

If it's passed we'll see a short-term uptick followed by a longer-term rise or fall based on whether it'll work.

I honestly don't know that it will work, I don't think anyone does, but I do know there are problems and we're not seeing any other suggestions here.

I also think that the taxpayer is only assuming the risk and we'll make money over this in the end.

Trouble is that it's now become political as the GOP try to fight the election on it - despite the fact conservative policies have caused it.”

“The jump (485 pts is not just a bump) today and the fall yesterday are exactly the same. Panicky people being taken advantage of by slick players.”

“well not really. The real problem at the moment is the credit freeze. There's a huge gap between the fed interest rate and the London Inter Bank Offering Rate- the largest its ever been in fact. This reflects the fear in the market.

This means that banks will lend to hardly anyone - because they simply don't know who else is at risk there.

So this rise and fall is all about uncertainty. The Treasury plan means they can lend to other banks with a reasonable amount of certainty that they won't go under because of their exposure to sub-primes and their derivatives.

At the moment they also want to hoard all their cash in case they come under doubt and they suffer a run. The raising of the protection rate to $250k is designed to prevent runs, like we saw at WAMU.

The trouble in dealing with this piecemeal is that there will still be doubts as to whether another sub-prime bombshell will be dropped. There may only be one more WAMU out there, but until they know who it is, or get protection, they won't do business with hardly anyone.

When Goldman Sachs was at risk, the bluest of blue chips in the financial world, no one was safe.

Until we clear this up no one will lend, because for the moment, they are concerned about survival and not returns.

When no one lends.... all need credit.... blah blah blah....

So we may hate this 'socialist bailout' but the alternative is a potentially devastating downward economic spiral - credit pulled, jobs go, less money in economy, jobs go, less money in economy, jobs go....
last edited: 9/30/08 5:55:49 PM”

“Let it go.”

“Yesterday's House vote:
60% of Democrats
33% of Republicans



Homo says "what?"”
VioLiN
5:05:02 AM
9/30/08

Twelve Democrats from Barney Frank's banking committee voted no. The deal was brokered, but Pelosi's partisan insult broke the deal.

The American people don't want this deal.”

“We're headed for a crash no matter what. The $700 billion just means we crash and our greatgrand kids get to pay the bill. Aren't the democrats always the ones saying our kids will have to pay for whatever it is Bush did this week?

The only ones who want this bill are the companies, the lobbyists, the politicians they control and the ones with pork added into the bill.”

“Yeah, but no one else on govt. (Obama included) made it all about them, did they. McCain tried to turn economic turmoil into a presidential race ratings boost and ended up with egg all over his face, deservedly so.”
Hiker19B4
10:58:04 AM
9/30/08

McCain stepped in to stop the Democrats from further raping America. This whole bail out stinks. The Democrats put together the most expensive, least effective plan. McCain got the Republican plan a chance.

In the debate McCain should have told America that Barney Frank's (Obama's) plan was a $700 billion boon doggle and the Republican plan was much cheaper and injected liquidity with a moratorium on bonuses until the taxpayers had a percentage of their money back.

The Democrats want bureaucrats processing mortgages. Idiots.”

“Cause the government does everything cheaply and effectively...”

“Yogi yogi yogi - it's a failing of conservative ideology which has been rammed down everyone's throats. But if you want to make it out to be some sort of witch-hunt to avoid then issues, then you go for it.”
Y2
7:07:32 AM
9/30/08

Here you go Y2, I can see you don't pick up a newspaper.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p1Wc2NFa3w”

“With my limited background in economics, I am worried what will happen if credit dries up.
chili36
10:21:59 AM
9/30/08

Credit needs to dry up. The credit needs to go to people with good credit ratings at a measured percentage of their income.

Loaning to people with marginal credit who put none of their own money up is why we are where we are.”

“--From strat's cut and paste.

That is so friggin hilarious it is priceless.

I hope the black helicopters don't fly over tonight, I might get forced into borrowing some money I can't afford to pay back.”
chili36
12:27:04 PM
9/30/08

Crazier than Y2's comments? You think ACORN isn't assisting people into mortgages they can't afford?”

“This has to be one of the hardest decisions for the democrats. On one hand they love welfare but on the other hand they hate big business.

What to do...what to do?”

“"The deal was brokered, but Pelosi's partisan insult broke the deal."
- bacpac

Bwah-ha-ha-ha-ha!

Have you litened to her speech or are you just regurgitating right-wing talking point?

If this caused Republicans to soil their pant, they are an even bigger buch of babies than I thought: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMLo7i38D58”

“I heard her speech. What a partisan load. Pelosi blamed Republicans for the whole crisis.

McCain can take the high road, but he is alone on that road.

What about the 12 Democrats on the banking committee that voted no? If this was such a great deal, why didn't the 'experts' vote for it?”

“Specifically Yogi - the rolling back of regulation put in place when people have abused the system before - and the screwing of the middle classes, and the failure to press regulation even when the rules exist in law.

Y2
1:47:19 PM
9/30/08

Post the regulation you are referring to.”

“hyway - regarding your post from yesterday morning re alternatives to the bailout bill: I think its a really terrible idea to suspend the "mark to market" accounting rules. What the American economy needs is more transparency, not less. Pretending that many institutions aren't sitting on devalued assets will only further erode world confidence in our financial accounting. Investors are worried that the picture is even worse than what has been revealed to date and that is what is causing the crisis. Allowing banks to hide it will only worsen the panic IMHO.”

“For arclite, hyway and other Krugman haters: http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/23842,,4.php#1231967

You didn't listen then, will you listen now?”

“For those interested, here is a pretty simple explanation why the package favored by Treasury is the wrong approach: http://www.hussmanfunds.com/wmc/wmc080929.htm
last edited: 10/01/08 5:25:00 AM”

“I think there needs to be a reasonable middle ground concerning mark to market rules. You can have transparency without doing things on a day to day basis that is prone to huge crashes.

But we're talking about the government here. They know nothing of being 'reasonable'.”

“Your wording is throwing me off. Is this the same plan that is favored by democrats that republicans killed in the house?”

“You know I think there would have been a lot more support on the GOP side if we could have boiled this down to a snappy slogan.... you know like 'Stay the Course', maybe 'Fight them over there so we don't fight them over there', Mushroom Cloud', 'They hate us because we're free'.

Any issue that can't be expressed in a Haiku at most, and conservatives seem to lose interest.”

“What was the Dimocrat excuse?”

“The learning curve on this is pretty steep, but the Buffett model seems more favored from a technical standpoint, from what I'm seeing. � Is that more like the course that was taken in the Scandanavian crises: direct injection of capital in return for a senior stake in equity?”

“Soo, the fact that there was eight friggin' years to correct the problem, that apparently is soooo obvious to the right wingers in the room, and absolutely nothing was done seems to indicate to me that, once again, absolutely NO insight was taken on the part of the administration. What a disgrace. And Bacpac, Nigal, Stratdood, Sarge, Hyway and the rest that voted TWICE for this guy, have nothing but excuses. Pitiful.

Do a search on Liberty Mutual and George W. Bush and tell me what you find. This guy was in the pocket of one of the biggest advocators AGAINST mortgage reform and supported the bundling of bogus mortgages sold to greedy Wallstreet speculators.

Chalk up another one to the Prez!
last edited: 10/01/08 7:19:01 AM”

“
� � � � big surprise there, eh?

”

“Pretty much all of the issues in this mess are over my head financially. I came across this. Some of it I follow, some of I don't. Just passing info along, it's from Dave Ramsey: http://www.daveramsey.com/media/pdf/the_common_sense_fix.pdf
last edited: 10/01/08 7:53:50 AM”

“
� � � Just about guaranteed to make your head explode ----- RGE Monitor

”

“PLEASE CALL OR E-MAIL YOUR SENATORS TODAY AND URGE THEM TO VOTE NO ON THIS BAILOUT!



(+1 DAVE RAMSEY)”