Bush - Man of God?

“Go ahead and continue to paint that portrait with a mighty brush. You've got us all pigeon holed.”

“LOL! I seem to be the only one using reason here. I’m pigeon holing? Where? What have I made anyone out to be? In one single post Turtle made the claims that all Christians and republicans hate gays, are against every policy issue, and are easily manipulated.

Sheesh! If you guys are going to troll at least get some damn style. This tact is just too transparent. LOL! It’s got to be trolling because no one can be this ignorant.”

“Ha! No were on the same page Nigal. I'm responding to Turtle. Sorry about that.
last edited: 1/04/05 9:36:14 AM”

“Well color me stupid. LOL! Sorry for stompin' on ya then. Maybe we need to wear jersies or something?
last edited: 1/04/05 9:39:54 AM”

“Well, "hate" of gays is probably semantics of the topic that aren't in the same words you are comfortable talking about the topic.

A better way to describe hate of gays is to describe it as "defending marriage between man and woman".

The resulting policy is the same which ever semantics are adopted. ;)

And the point I am making is that "defending marriage" is a completely pointless fantastical issue that has no real material dollar cost, no budget items, no one being killed, etc.

It has little or no material effect. Rove has been successful in making southerners think their "values" are threatened and under attack, but it is all a complete fantasy.

Nixon did the same thing with blacks in the 60's. He painted the Democratic party as the "black party" and insecure black-hating southerners didn't want to be part of no black party, so they voted for the GOP. He did the same in this election with gays. Insecure southerners don't want their culture (which is intolerant of gays) under attack and so they don't want to be part of any gay party.

And yeah, that is what decided the election.

And yes, the GOP does it intentionally.

___


The Southern Strategy - Richard M. Nixon's win of 1968
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southern_strategy

___

If Karl Rove knows one thing, it is how much insecurity southerners have of people thinking they are ignorant, LOL.”

“Oh so now it's the homophobic hillbillies then?

Hey, I’m all for this theory because as long as the left keep on pointing fingers at others for their failures they will never fix what is broken in their party and they will continue to lose elections. I’m very fond of the thinking that the democrats just didn’t try hard enough or they weren’t mean enough and next time they will just have to be even more extreme. I want to see Michael “I bleed Cheese Wiz” Moore, Al Frankin and Genene Garaphalo on the TV representing the left every single day. This will cause them to be even more out of touch with the average American and only further the conservative power base.”

“Yeah....he would never pigeon-hole. Corn-hole maybe, but never with the pigeons.
Holier then thou maybe too.

That graphic about deficits says a lot.
The Bush's have always been about plundering the country. Grampa sold materials to the Nazis and W and Poppy continue in the family tradition.

Sheesh... have they cleaned up the mess in Asia yet. Those non-Americans need to get back to making more Nikes and Columbia gear for us Americans.”

“Nigal... So you don't care about defending marriage? LOL.

As to how the Dems manage all this, what they'll probably do is run some candidates that southerners perceive as being part of their culture.

And they'll get elected. ;)

Just like Bill Clinton.

I just hope it happens soon, because the policies being adopted are atrocious.

It is an undeniable fact that (1) southerners are now very heavily controlling national policy, and (2) they aren't very concerned with thinking through the policies their chosen leaders employ.

Southerners are not ignorant, they just don't give a #&%!$ what their candidates do in office so long as they can tell themselves 'we beat the northerners'.

It probably goes all the way back to the civil war, LOL.
last edited: 1/04/05 10:05:08 AM”

““Nigal... So you don't care about defending marriage? LOL.”

OK, all BS aside. I’ll be serious for a second here. Do I care about defending marriage? Sure. How it should be defended is what’s up in the air. I feel marriage should be fended by my personally putting effort into my own marriage and making it strong. If I have a strong marriage then marriage has been defended. If you have a strong marriage then marriage has been defended. Looking at divorce rates in America shows me that we are not giving the impression that marriage is even defensible. The single most important part of marriage is fidelity. Being committed to one person in a life long commitment. I feel this can be done by two men or two women just as much as by a man and a woman. If two men have a strong marriage then marriage has been defended. If two women have a strong marriage then marriage has been defended. America will not be smote by the almighty the second gay marriage is legalized.

I am not the far right winger you may think I am. I am a conservative who believes in freedom. Freedom means tolerating others saying and doing some things I may not believe in or agree with.

I live in Ohio and I vote in Ohio. The same day I voted for Bush I voted against the gay marriage ban in my state.”

“Well, Ohio is an odd one that. People in PA I know were surprised to see W. pick up Ohio in this election.

Why'd you vote for W. then? Didn't like Bush, but like Kerry less?”

“Where does trail turtle come up with these generalizations and 'facts'?”

“Nigal - are you going to marry WK in Canada? Or will your Love child be a bastard?”

“Why'd you vote for W. then? Didn't like Bush, but like Kerry less?”

This election wasn’t about voting FOR someone but rather AGAINST someone. LOL! I was voting to keep Kerry out. I have my problems with Bush but Kerry was no solution. In looking at it in retrospect once Kerry was picked as the man I would have voted for a Wesley Clark or a Joe Lieberman before Bush.”

“And why, specifically did you want to keep Kerry out of office? The medals? Didn't trust him? Didn't like that he protested the Vietnam war? Didn't like that he married rich women?

To what depth did you actually look at his voting record or did you get all your info from television ads? Do you watch FOX News more than CNN.

I am seriously curious to hear your opinions. Most of the south can be chocked up to the things I've cited, but Ohio can't be pigeonholed like that.”

“I live South of the Mason-Dixon line in an area that voted 90% Kerry and gave our 3 electoral votes to him.”

“All of the south doesn't follow the stereotypes for sure. But (depending on the state), 60%-70% of the population of the "deep south" can be pigeonholed pretty well, and I live next to most of them, LOL. The people do all think quite alike, cookie cutter in fact.

That's not to imply they are ignorant, far from it, but they do all think that everyone else thinks they are ignorant. And because they think that everyone thinks they are ignorant, they aren't interested in hearing, or even considering any opinion other than what they already think, and they all think the same.

What the people think seems to be, to quite a significant degree, decided in the church's, and the southern ministers definitely supported Bush, if only because of the promises of money from the "faith based initiatives".

So, I suppose the church has indeed begun to run America.”

“But do they think that I think that they think that I don't know that they think that?”

“damn turtle you seem to know a lot about southerner's. So tell me what do I think. Born and raised in the south so that should be easy for ya.

Damn know it all Yankee!!
last edited: 1/04/05 10:47:06 AM”

“Q: How do you hide $5 from a Southerner?




A: Put it under the soap.”

“soap?? what is that!! we don't wear shoes either, got a piece of straw in our mouth and look at those purty mouths you Yankees boys have...squeal for me piggie”

“Ewker... LOL. I live 10 miles from the the most Republican precinct in the country (97%) and I have spent the last (60%) of my life in Florida and Georgia. My early childhood was on an island off the coast of Maine.

So, I can tell you that you think I am a Yankee, and you probably think that I think you are ignorant, but in those beliefs you are wrong on both counts, LOL ;).
last edited: 1/04/05 10:54:26 AM”

“Isn't Florida filled with Yankees and Cuban counter-revolutionaries?”

“BM, snow birds is what they are called I think.”

“LOL. No stereotypes hold up for Florida. It's got every kind of person. Gays to old jews, to new yorkers, to black's to cubans, to hispanics, to rich biz guys to pimps, to drug dealers, to rednecks, to ivy-leaguers, to arabs, to europeans, to italians.

You know, I can't think of a single group that isn't represented somewhere down there.”

“Your list seems to be predominately "non-Southern".”

“BM, thats Florida for ya. Makes you wonder if there are any people born in Florida still living there”

“I put rednecks in there ;)

Actually there are a lot of "deep south" types, especially in rural central areas. Rural central Florida is quite similar to Georgia to be honest.
last edited: 1/04/05 11:11:53 AM”

“BM, thats Florida for ya. Makes you wonder if there are any people born in Florida still living there”
Ewker
12:10:38 PM
1/04/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“I put rednecks in there ;)”
TrailTurtle
12:11:10 PM
1/04/05

Therefore/ergo/sum Florida can not be "pigeonholed" nor could it be considered the "Deep South".

BTW - I am the last human on The East Coast who has never put one foot in Florida. :)”

“I don't mind sharing my opinions as long as we remain respectful. Remember, these are my opinions and there are no charts or graphs. :)

“And why, specifically did you want to keep Kerry out of office? The medals?”

Not the fact he threw them but the fact he lied so many times about it. I think by November he didn’t even know the truth about what he threw, when he threw it, or who owned what he threw. LOL!

“Didn't trust him?”

Not one single bit. He talked himself into so many corners and flip flopped so many times I got dizzy.

“Didn't like that he protested the Vietnam war?”

Not that he protested. It was how he protested (before Congress) and when he did it (while we still had pows in north Vietnam). The damage he cause by doing this is undeniable.

“Didn't like that he married rich women?”

While I find her behavior crass and classless I don’t care who he’s married to.

”To what depth did you actually look at his voting record or did you get all your info from television ads?”

No, I did look at his record and even though there were also repubs like Cheney who voted the same way it doesn’t excuse a crappy record.

“Do you watch FOX News more than CNN.”

When I want to hear the conservative opinion (not news) I watch Fox and even then it’s rarely. I personally don’t trust any news media outlet.

A big factor was consistency. By November I was so sick of hearing Bush speak. He was saying the same things he’d been saying all year. But he was consistence and I always knew where he stood. Kerry blew with the wind and even into October he was constantly changing his stance. He chose his VP who was a trial lawyer, had very little experience and never seemed to be able to find his way to work. And in my opinion (not stating facts so save it!) the cabinet Bush chose was a good choice with many years of service under their belts.

I don’t care for the political debates but you are being respectful now so I don’t think you’d come down too hard on me for saying that I’m pretty good at seeing what Bush is responsible for and what he has no control over. Mostly of the loony left here likes to blame Bush for bad weather and heavy traffic. LOL! So here are the things I do hold Bush’s feet in the fire for:

Iraq- Let’s just get it out of the way right now! LOL! I personally feel that Saddam’s years of criminal dictatorship were reason enough to invade. I have been on record as saying Bush was wrong the way he threw every damn thing against the wall until something stuck. He should have stuck to the violations against the UN resolutions and not gone on the great WMD escapade. He was wrong in assuming that America would have the same sentiments towards an Iraqi invasion as we did with Afghanistan. The simple fact is (IMHO) we Americans don’t give two #&%!$s what some country around the globe is going through no matter how evil the sob is. We do not have the fortitude nor the stomach to go to war for no other reason than vanquish evil. This is the understatement of the year I know, but we should have left Iraq to it’s own miserable existence.

Spending- Good gawd, enough said. While I don’t hold him 100% responsible for the economy I can hold him responsible for over spending.

Immigration- I am 100% for legal immigration and sharing in the American dream but there’s nothing I hate more than a soft, simpering PC, pussie on illegal immigration.

Roadmap to Peace- It’s a disaster.”

“There are quite a few born in Florida that still live here.

It's probably the most varied state in the nation.”

“Gay marriage does seem to be a hot bottom issue in the South. It's not something I give any time at all thinking about and is not a hot button issue for me. I have mixed feelings on the issue, but haven't bothered actually exploring my thoughts on it. Oh well.

JO - drop me a line if you get a chance. I think Mark forwarded some info for me.

Karma Police - I can't decide if you're Dunadan or not.

BM - I'm not sure DC/Baltimore counts. Special case, though surely south of the M-D line.
last edited: 1/04/05 11:20:13 AM”

“Ewker is about as non-stereo typical southerner as you can get save for his good manners. He barely has an accent. I’d go so far as to call him borderline metrosexual. LOL!”

“Oops, I posted before I read the last page.

Trailturtle - where do you live?

I meant to say that Karma police was likely Dunadan.”

“Dayhiker, now there's a hillbilly. He drinks ice tea SWEET for gawd's sake! From a mason jar even!”

“"I meant to say that Karma police was likely Dunadan.”

Naw, Karma's an oldtimer from that "other site". Oh some of the tangles we used to get into!”

“karma police has been posting on backpacker.com for a while so I don't think it is Dunadan”

“"That's not to imply they are ignorant, far from it, but they do all think that everyone else thinks they are ignorant. And because they think that everyone thinks they are ignorant, they aren't interested in hearing, or even considering any opinion other than what they already think, and they all think the same." Trailturtle

There is probably more correct than incorrect about that statement.


Nigal - I do enjoy a good Chappelle skit every now and again, I am from the South, and I eat grits so I suppose that makes me racist?”

“My bad, the discussion was similar to some that Dunny and I have had on email.”

“Nigal - I do enjoy a good Chappelle skit every now and again, I am from the South, and I eat grits so I suppose that makes me racist?”

Yeah but your KKK hood and robes are made of sil nylon so you have that to hang your Red Man hat on? LOL!”

“dayhiker, it could be him. I don't know if Dunny posted over there or not.”

“Silnylon is too thin for Klan garb. You and your neighbor might recognise each other at the cross burning.”

“HPM, even the purple silnylon?? dang I cut those holes out already :( Looks like I ruined a good piece of silnylon”

“dayhiker - I don't know who or what Dunadan is.

Nigal - Ahh, a Swift Vets convertee.

As to "flip-flopping" rationality is the willingness to correct one's errors. I actually like Kerry for this and for his honesty about the issues.

Kerry was the only guy to actually come out and admit we need the oil. Smart politically? Probably not, but honest nevertheless.

The Iraq war was not, ever, a no-brainer, and anyone who is certain it was the right thing to do is a fool.

As to "evil Saddam", well, I'm still searching for someone to offer up a definition of 'evil' that applies only to Saddam and not to Bush.

If anything, everything Saddam said (what he actually said, not what FOX News talking heads 'interpreted' for him) has turned out to be true. No W.M.D., no mass graves with 400,000 people (the graves contained 5k-15k, the majority of whom were Iranians from Iran/Iraq war... that we backed).

The current verified Saddam body count is less than 15,000 people including the Kurds he gassed with the bio/chem Rummy gave him.

We are killing almost 15,000 every 3 months in Iraq. Navy Secretary analysis included the leak that the U.S. military is killing 2500-4000 Iraqis a month.

And what do we do with the bodies?

... mass graves.

So if you can define 'evil' such that it applies to Saddam and not to Bush, well, all the kudos to you. We do need the oil, but if you count the bodies, Bush has killed and is killing far more than Saddam ever did.”

“"Gay marriage does seem to be a hot bottom issue"
dayhiker
12:16:16 PM
1/04/05

Freudian slip?

Yeah, I was being slightly facetious. Northern VA is about as Southern as The rest of us too”

“>Trailturtle - where do you live?

Atlanta suburb.”

“It is translucent, that's correct.

Speaking of the Klan....there is a group in Spain that wears very similar garb during Lent. It's a Catholic sect maybe? I check out photo.net from time to time and saw one the pictures of a ceremony. It was pretty chilling at first because it had a 5-7 yo kid in the pic too. I read a bit on it and it's a long standing tradition. The photo talked about how dramatically different the reaction is depending on which side of the Atlantic you're from. Pretty interesting.”

“Purple?
Why I had no idea we had a Klan Wizard on the board.
We are among royalty here, take yer Skoal hats off boys.”

“No slip, I said it was a hot button issue in the South, but not with me as an individual.

TT - just curious.”

“Atlanta has as many Southerners as DC.”

“Atlanta...A place I try to avoid”