Trouble in Montana?

“BLAME NEWGIRL!”

“What? Are the MOUNTies involved in some way?


Actually, this sounds pretty bad... I'd just pay the ranchers for the cattle. It's not like the cattle are endangered.”

“I wonder if the larger question isn't why are wolves picking-off adult cattle? What is it about the wolves' environment that lead them to the cattle? Have somethings changed in other areas of their territory? Dirth of food source because of weather, food depletion, encroachment of preditors or development? I don't know. Just seems to me that we need to look at the larger 'system.'

(PS I am aware this is a long standing debate.)”

“The Montana Stockgrowers Assn. are a conservative lot and have the current adminstration's ear. The Federal agencies are cutting a wide anti-environmental swath through the west, not the least of which is reducing wolf and grizzly numbers. More people moving in, pushing the wildilfe out.

Another related story is the Montana Fish, Wildlife and Parks are slaughtering the Bison that move out of Yellowstone. The Stockgrowers are afraid that the Bison will carry brucellosis (bad for cattle), which hasn't been proven that bison can transmit it to cattle, and threaten their brucellosis-free status on the cattle market. So, the bison wander out of the Park, the Rangers try to haze them back in, but they wander out again to a certain death.”

“Years ago the elk were overgrazing their winter ranges and breeding out of control due to lack of predators. The coyotes just weren't getting the job done. They re-introduced the wolf threw in some elk carcasses into the holding pens until they released the wolves (in the Park anyway). The wolves have now culled the herd of the sick and weak elk and bison and the herds are at healthier levels. There's a lot of snow in the Park this year and not much just outside the northern boundary where they're wandering to (be shot).”

“BLAME AERO!!!!”

“Actually, I blame Little Red Riding Hood and her Grandmother!”

“So I guess the current policy is:

If someone isn't doing what you want, just shoot them!!”

“mmmmmm Bison Burgers........”

“As you well know, Marty, here in Montana we like to shoot first, ask questions later.”

“Isn't "He needed killin'" a legitimate defense in Montana?”

“Aero, in what part of Montana are these two wolf packs located?”

“Thanks for the background, Aero.

This has been a major concern over the re-introduction of the wolf into the lower 48, wherever it happens. At some point a wolf kills a cow and the cattle growers holler for wolf ears. Meanwhile, the wolf faces competition for smaller animals from the coyote, which is less of a threat to cattle.

Pennsy has an interest in wolves. Maybe he'll check in later and offer his point of view.”

“Yeah, always blame Newgirl first Artex! LOL!

I'm not a fan of any of the wolf and bison policies, but it is a huge issue up here. As, Aero pointed out there is a big anti-environmental sentiment in these parts.”

“Mountainmaster- I'm not exactly sure yet where the Castlerock and Halfway packs were from. I think it may be near the Rocky Mountain Front somewhere south of Glacier NP or down by Choutou or Augusta. I'm more familiar with the Soda Butte and Druid Packs around the Yellowstone region. I'll have to check into that.”

“Too many fairy tales about the "Big, bad wolf". The livestock industry was opposed to reintroduction from the start. Some of the environmental groups pay the ranchers for cattle lost to wolves and I think there's some Federal $$ as well.”

“"So I guess the current policy is:

If someone isn't doing what you want, just shoot them!!"
Martyb
10:24:15 AM
03/05/03


COOL, Does that include annoying co-workers?


I have to agree with the idea that ranchers and builders are making the Wolfs homes smaller. less places to hunt so they go to the next best thing. Hay its only natural to them. stop building then maybe they wont eat the only food thats near them.
Its not brain surgery here.”

“Maybe they're from Castlerock?

Well, you know that environmentalists are communists bent on the destruction of American business.

Viva Zappata!

Up The Revolution!”

“Bison Burgers...... with Brucellosis Sauce!

(sorry!)


Dang! Aero's starting to sound like one o' those pinko commie heterosexuals! <VBG>”

“Sure seems like paying the ranchers for lost cattle would be a smart solution - how could they argue with that? Anybody know what such a payment would be (per head)? $100? $500? $10000?

Of course, the ranchers would have to admit defeat - as a descendant of 19th century Montana ranchers, I can understand the difficulty in this. Imagine the shame of not being able to "tame" the wilderness!”

“I agree maple. People, mainly in the western part of the state, are building homes in what is called "the urban-wilderness interface" and human- or domestic animal- wildlife encounters are more frequent. But it gets me that when a mountain lion attacks someone's poodle, they blame the mountain lion. They're treating the wildlife like invaders when it's the other way around.

Not to be hypocritical, but we've got a cabin in the woods,and I accept full responsibility for any mishaps due to wildfire or wildlife attacks (moose stompings or bear maulings). In my view it's not fair to have a home in the wilderness and expect it to be like suburbia.”

“Nothing to do with topics, but i always loved ths Zappa song :)

I might be movin' to Montana soon
Just to raise me up a crop of
Dental Floss

Raisin' it up
Waxen it down
In a little white box
I can sell uptown

By myself I wouldn't
Have no boss,
But I'd be raisin' my lonely
Dental Floss

Raisin' my lonely
Dental Floss

Well I just might grow me some bees
But I'd leave the sweet stuff
For somebody else...but then, on the other hand I'd

Keep the wax
N' melt it down
Pluck some Floss
N' swish it aroun'

I'd have me a crop
An' it'd be on top (that's why I'M movin' to)

Movin' to Montana soon
Gonna be a Dental Floss tycoon (yes I am)
Movin' to Montana soon
Gonna be a mennil-toss flykune

I'm pluckin' the ol'
Dennil Floss
That's growin' on the prairie
Pluckin' the floss!
I plucked all day an' all nite an' all
Afternoon...

I'm ridin' a small tiny hoss
(His name is MIGHTY LITTLE)
He's a good hoss
Even though
He's a bit dinky to strap a big saddle or
Blanket on anyway
He's a bit dinky to strap a big saddle or
Blanket on anyway
Any way

I'm pluckin' the ol'
Dennil Floss
Even if you think it is a little silly, folks
I don't care if you think it's silly, folks
I don't care if you think it's silly, folks

I'm gonna find me a horse
Just about this big
An' ride him all along the border line

With a
Pair of heavy-duty
Zircon-encrusted tweezers in my hand
Every other wrangler would say
I was mighty grand

By myself I wouldn't
Have no boss
But I'd be raisin' my lonely
Dental Floss

Raisin' my lonely
Dental Floss
Raisin' my lonely
Dental Floss

Well I might
Ride along the border
With my tweezers gleamin'
In the moon-lighty night

And then I'd
Get a cuppa cawfee
N' give my foot a push...
Just me 'n the pymgy pony
Over the Dennil Floss Bush

N' then I might just
Jumb back on
An' ride
Like a cowboy
Into the dawn to Montana

Movin' to Montana soon
(Yippy-Ty-O-Ty-Ay)
Movin' to Montana soon”

“What a coininkydink! Here's an article from our local paper today!(In case you're interested)”

“How's the wolf population in NYC behavin', Mapleleaf?”

“the Bronx Zoo has 1 wolf that was caught a couple of years ago. It was wondering around in the Bronx. They caught it and gave it a home. Its so sad to watch this poor creature pace back and forth. it has not right to be in a zoo. it should have been set free. But I think they were worried about it getting shot.
Im happy its safe but sad that its not free.”

“wow. They 'shepherded the bills through both houses'.

<GROAN>”

“They want to kill off two packs of Gray wolves...animals on the Endangered Species list for one bull, one cow, and one calf, but they can't make up their minds whether to prosecute the guy who purposefully shot an animal on the Endangered Species list. And they call that justice....the Bush administration is doing all it can to dismantle this country piece by piece, forest by forest, desert by desert, and now I read in the LA Times the government is willing to accept the idea of North Korea's approaching capability of building a nuke every month.

Gas at the local ARCO(BP)is now $2.02 a gallon for 87 octane here in Orange County, CA. The average price of a house is over $350,000, and my wife couldn't resist buying a red pepper for $1.49 a pound, and I had a Bloody Mary at a bar on Sunday and it cost $7.50.

This poor country of ours is teetering on something horrific...when will it come?”

“Yesterday's paper was rife with great wildlife articles!”

“Mountainmaster, wow I feel how upset you are. It sucks now matter how you look at it. We are here to protect these wonderful creatures but at the same time we are killing them off. So so sad.”

“Kill . . . Kill . . . Kill

It starts at the top and trickles down.”

“the top, would that be Bush?”

“From the Billings Gazette wolf article:

"With the bill's approval Tuesday (HB229), wolves inside the national parks and in certain designated wilderness areas next to the park are now classified as trophy game. Other wolves are considered predatory animals and can be subjected to unregulated killing.
But, if the number of wolf packs dips below seven, the Wyoming Game and Fish Commission can classify more wolves as trophy game, which are subject to hunting regulations."

How many packs are there now? The story said something about 15... ?”

“That's a pathetic policy. I can see the rancher side of the equation, but it's not like wolf packs are over-running cattle herds. But they will, is the argument the ranchers use.

As others have said, pay the ranchers for their killed cattle and monitor the kills. Don't wolves need a HUGE hunting range? Those ranchers have nothing to complain about. They're getting federal subsidies out the ying-yang.”

“In many cases, the cattle are being grazed on federal land.”

“The State legislatures of Wyoming and Montana are rancher-dominated and very conservative, so they typically pass legislation down party lines which benefit their industry. This is the problem with the Feds letting the locals determine policy surrounding Public lands, etc. They consider the U.S. Public's (that's you guys in NY, NJ, FL, etc) resources as their own.”

“Kill . . . Kill . . . Kill

It starts at the top and trickles down."
Geezr
11:56:23 AM
03/05/03

"the top, would that be Bush?"
Mapleleaf
11:57:05 AM
03/05/03


I do my best to "TRY" and avoid religious and political confrontations. So, I refuse to answer because I promised Martyb I wouldn't. ;-)”

“BTW, that wolf in the Bronx was caught buying crack in a sting operation...


I think he was set up...”

“By reintroducing the wolf to its former habitat, we knew these problems would arise, and they have. There is no surprise in that. The question is whether wolves are better off being reintroduced than not, and the answer has to do with biodiversity and increased wolf population worldwide.

But we drove the native Americans off their land, so I guess the wolf and the buffalo can't expect a hell of a lot when it comes to the promises of the Great White Father. You would think after a couple hundred years of shameful behavior we would have learned something about the value of the earth we inherited, but seem bent on destroying piece by piece. So you marginalize those who protest and tell the rest of America what's good for them.

Those of us who are in the center of the political spectrum watch the pendulum swing back and forth from one political extreme to the other, and we wonder how in its increasingly big arc it manages to never touch down on common sense.

When there are windmills on every mountain left standing by the coal industry, when all the wolves, grizzlies, cougars, elk, and buffalo are eliminated from our fair world, when there are dams and nukes on every stream and no fish left in the sea, when all the water sources have dried up, when we look around and see nothing but squirrels, crows, deer, pigeons, and coyotes, we can tell ourselves what a great impact we had on taming the earth.”

“FYI

sorry wrong zoo. It was the Queens Zoo that got the Wolf”

“To borrow a phrase I recently heard from someone: "Shut yer pie hole!"”

“See, there's why they should have some controls on genetic engineering!”

“That's a Monsanto^TM WoofCat®, isn't it?”

“White separatist Kevin McGuire has qualified to run as a candidate for the nine-member Bozeman School Board.

Four candidates filed papers as of Thursday's deadline to run for three open seats in the May 3 election, according to Lori King, assistant to the assistant superintendent for business.

McGuire, an activist with the National Alliance, which advocates creating a whites-only, non-Jewish society, responded to the Chronicle by e-mail, saying he was running to encourage school programs that "foster a sense of racial identity, pride and belonging."

"Our children are taught about the histories and cultures of Blacks, Latinos, Asians, Jews and Native Americans but any sense of White racial solidarity or White racial pride is condemned as White racism; and that is not right," McGuire wrote.

"I stand against the homosexual agenda currently in our school system which not only preaches acceptance of homosexuality but actively encourages it."

Thirty-nine people, including a Bozeman teacher, signed McGuire's petition to be a candidate as he walked up and down South Third Avenue and nearby streets.

He is one of three candidates running for two seats representing the Bozeman elementary district.
[...]
In an interview with the Chronicle in January, McGuire, 22, objected to being called a Nazi or white supremacist.

According to the National Alliance's Web site, the goals of education are to teach ideas, useful skills and "those traits of character valued by a healthy Aryan society."

It advocates a new educational system, like one that "enjoyed an all-too-brief revival earlier this century in National Socialist Germany, before being outlawed by the advocates of permissiveness."

Full Story”

“I agree. I think each and every Jew should go back to Israel.”

“Whacko!!”

“Taking that to the extreme, and these whacko's do.

Everyone should go back to where they came from and leave America to the original inhabitants.
All these white folk should go back to that part of europe they originated from also.

But what about people of mixed race; say Italian and Irish, do we allow patriarchal ancestry?, or matriarchal ancestry?, or are they all about purity and these mixed race people have no place in a pure Europe ?

And if we allow a mix of Scandinavian and Polish where do we draw the line, I mean some Polish have ancestry back to Ghengis Khan so that lets Asians into the mix, but I guess Hitler also accepted Japanese as 'Honorary Aryans' so it must be OK.

And what about the disenfranchised, those who fall on the "other" side of this acceptable mixed race line, those not accepted by either country or countries of descent, maybe bacause their descent leave only 1/4 from any particular country. Nowhere to live, do they all have to starve like Terri Schiavo, or become nomadic boat people living off the harvest of the sea and hydroponic vegetables.

What the heck is the definition of "White" anyway? Albino is not the same as Albanian.”

“Well Damn. Does this mean I have to go back to Alabama?”

“Jews in Montana? Yeah, I guess there are a couple.”