Bush one vote away from Arctic drilling OK

“"Hopefuilly they'll discover it on several of the Bush family estates."

y2
11:41:40 AM
3/07/05

I'll let the Pres. know that you are hoping that he will continue to find financial success.”

“So it is okay for oil drilling in the Arctic? Is it okay for oil drilling in a National park? Would some of you be okay with oil drilling at your favorite hiking trail or favorite place to backpack to? How would you feel about that?
I agree with Le Subtil...I would think one who loves the outdoors would be sympathetic to this.
I would suggest for those who do not want to pay high gas prices to buy a gas economy car to help with that”

“well with those contacts with the Saudis and the military manufacturers and contractors there's no danger of financial ruin for him. Look at all those business failures he had before daddy's friends helped out and yet he still was able to buy a baseball club. So oil will just be a drop in the ocean to him.”

“No it's not okay to drill in a park...

Newsflash - ANWR is not a national park.”

“it's a mere Wildlife refuge. What does wildlife need a refuge for?”

“Actually it would be a great place to do some hunting! Caribou is yummy!”

“juts to make Bison mad we should make it a National Park”

“As a matter of fact the part of the refuge we're talking about here is specifically set aside for possible oil exploration.

BTW - you can thank Jimmy Carter for that, George Bush had nothin' to do with it...
last edited: 3/07/05 11:55:35 AM”

“I really don't think the is any sort of answer to America's reliance on foreign oil. It'll barely make a difference. If it could make a real difference then I think I'd be more positive and accept the drilling.
It seems to me to be more about the interests of the oil companies, they lobbying work and campaign comtirbutions smoothing the way through to drill. It's also a symbolic victory for sweeping through other drilling rights anywhere something is found.”

“Allowing them to drill in an area that is specifically set aside for possible drilling will not set a precedent for them to drill areas that aren't.”

“what nigal? you think there are a whole bunch of pesky penguins left to be taken care of?”

Gee sacco. You are right and far, far smarter than I am.

At least I know there no penguins in the Arctic…
LOL!”
Nigal

who said there were penguins in the artic? if you go back to my original use of penguins, i was talking about them in relation to oil spills. i also mentioned smog. do you think i was talking about smog being a big eskimo problem too?

my sarcastic comments about smog and penguins were about the general "let's continue to squeeze every once of oil out of the planet to do as much harm as we can to the environment- just so we don't have to use a renewable, enviro-friendly fuel source for a few more years" attitude.




and BTW, i never said i was smarter than you but i did know that there were no penguins north of the equator. i like penguins and have a passing knowledge about them. in fact, i'm such a fan that i even have a tatoo of a penguin ice fishing on my chest (chilly willy)

i've even won beer before on a bet about the size of the tallest penguins.

now how's that for proof of my penguin love & knowldege - beer bets and tatoos? eh? eh?
last edited: 3/07/05 12:05:58 PM”

““Who called you hysterical and naive? No one did...
Nigal"

Here, Einstein:
"Oh and while were at it lets stop spreading the "wilderness will forever be ruined" bs hysteria..."

and

"you have to be severely niave to think that drilling in Anwar could be "snuck" into a budget bill."

---

"Simply having a balanced view of responsible use of resources doesn't mean we hate the wilderness. Nigal"

How did you extrapolate that from what I said? You seem to have a problem with reading comprehension.
I do have to admire your sense of humor, in saying that we have a "balanced view of responsible use of resources".

lemmings, ya are”

“Oh my, turd throwing....
and on a nonfuego thread.”

“Come on, do you really think that a single Senator or Representative wouldn't know that this was attached to the budget bill?”

“That's not the reason it's sneaky Hyway. It's sneaky because it's designed to take public focus away from the drilling as most of the media attention will be on the budget.
Stand this proposal up on it's own and it will get much more focus and much more flack. It will also get less debate time attached to the budget.
Having said that I don't think it's gonna stay there.”

“Like there hasn't been enough public focus on this issue.”

“I don't think it will stay there either. I hate the way washington works, but it isn't surprising that someone would try to add something like this to the budget bill.”

““Hell, I'd pay $5 a gallon for hydro fuel just so we could sit back and watch the mideast oil countries collapse in on themselves.”

Hell yes, them and the rotten U.S. oil companies who have us over a barrel of mideast oil.”

“Nuke the Gay Whales!!! ;-)”

“and the ones that cross our borders illegally!!!!!”

“Illegal Gay Alien Whales?”

“You have to watch out for those guys”

“It's not about oil anymore, it's about politics.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/living/science/11071355.htm”

“First, sorry for not seeing the post where someone called you hysterical. The post about being naive was a rhetorical statement not even directed straight at you. Even with my limited reading comprehention I could see that.

"Simply having a balanced view of responsible use of resources doesn't mean we hate the wilderness. Nigal"

"How did you extrapolate that from what I said? You seem to have a problem with reading comprehension."

OK, you give the impression that everyone else is unsympathetic and uncaring about the wilderness. How in the world could I ever take that for hate? Sometimes it's my comprehension of tone that overrides my comprehension of reading and I'm getting your tone loud and clear. It's the same old "I'm right, you are wrong. I'm smart and enlightened and you are dumb and mislead" ploy. No? What about this?

"I do have to admire your sense of humor, in saying that we have a "balanced view of responsible use of resources"."

Because I don't agree with you my view just has to be humor. Gee thanks. And then you follow it up with calling me a..."lemmings, ya are”.

Thanks again. Add that to calling us suckers earlier and your tone is quite clear. So please forgive me for calling you hysterical and naive. You're just arrogant.”

“The BLM has permitted drilling in The Canyons Of The Ancients National Monument in sw colorado. Problem is we are a nation very dependent on oil. The US don't have the oil reserves to even start to supply the demand. That causes a lot of crappy problems.”

“Ok, I did it again. I let my emotion get the best of me.
I had brought up this issue at work about the same time I posted it here and got thrashed by my co-workers. I got angry, and misdirected my anger here.

Far worse than that, my entire point was lost.

I didn’t intend to debate the ANWR issue. I merely wanted to point out how, again, the administration is unethically (IMO) manipulating the system to achieve results they could not were things done by the established and expected process.

Those of you who feel drilling in ANWR is ok, would it not bother you to see it passed by these underhanded (IMO) tactics?
I can take being wrong. I can take being FAIRLY out-voted, even if I think I’m right. I have a hard time accepting being manipulated or cheated.

I am sorry for the name-calling.
Nigal, you didn’t deserve that.

I do stand by two of my remarks, and I’d like to re-state a third.
Calling the administrations energy policies “balanced” IS laughable. (again, IMO)
I am surprised and saddened to find so little sympathy among backpackers, and I’m surprised that so many people in general accept this administration’s policies apparently without question.
And, Nigal, your comment about deriding opinions that one disagrees with could most certainly be applied to you as well.”

“do you think the tactic of trying to attach projects like this onto the budget bill is something dreamed up my Bush? Just about every pork project, including many that benefit the backpacker/outdoor enthusiast folks were snuck in through the backdoor of the budget bill. Something as political as drilling in ANWR could never be snuck in. If a politician voted for teh bill, they would know they were voting for drilling.”

“No, hyway, I don't think that. But it dosen't make it any more palatable to know they all do it.”

“It'll barely make a difference. If it could make a real difference then I think I'd be more positive and accept the drilling.

Your fallacy is that all oil finds are incremental to the total, and if the criterion is "unless this oil well supplies the entire world forever," then nothing ever passes muster with people like you.

Thus, IMO, objections that begin with "it's not enough" are non-starters.”

“oryx, let me ask you a question.

which is cheaper uncap the 1000's of oil wells in this country or drill in a new place.

Also we have a pipeline in Alaska already and very little of that oil is even making it here. It is being sold by the oil companies to other countries.

Also it was brought up by Nigal that we have so many restrictions on refinement that we can't even afford to refine it ourselves.

I responded by saying "if that is the case then how is ANWR going to help if we cannot refine it?”

any comments?”

“I too find it disturbing to see so little regard for the environment among backpackers.”

“This is interesting...About 7% of crude oil production from the Alaska North Slope (ANS) is currently exported to South Korea, Japan, and China.”

“It‘s not a disregard for the environment. It‘s called priorities. Back in the 70s when I was just a kid, and we had the big energy crisis it was nearly crippling. Back then we were only dependant upon foreign oil for something like 30-38% of our oil. We are nearly 65-70% dependant on foreign oil today. Can you imagine what would happen today if the same thing happened? So if it comes down to choosing between America’s stability and drilling in something like .4% of the ANWAR you’re damn straight the barren, waste of tundra’s gonna lose every time. And let’s keep our perspective here. Drilling doesn’t even mean destroying the land. There have been huge advances in drilling techniques and the treatment of the land sense last we began drilling new places. Such as horizontal drilling. Hell, the companies even agreed to halt all drilling while the Porcupine caribou move through the area on their yearly migrations.

OK, now you make some dumb Tommy Chong type crack, call me a name and then avoid the issue.”

“The oil from ANWAR won't likely go to the U.S. anyway.

So how will this effect America's stability?

Dang, you sure have a hang-up about long-haired men, Curly.

You hated my @ss when I had a buzz cut.

I guess the hair is excuse of the month.
last edited: 3/08/05 12:23:41 PM”

“No just ignorant hippies.”

“some say that the liberal/environmentalist side is arrogant b/c we imply that the conservative bush backers don't give a phuck about the environment. maybe we should give you bush backers the benefit of doubt, and believe you guys just have different views, but still do care about the environment.

well phuck that. what i call arrogance is believing that you could know better than every single environmental organazation on the planet.

let me repeat that. every single environmental organazation on the planet thinks bush is scum and his policies are attrocious.

you bush backers think you some how know better? that's arrogance.”

“Dave's not here, man!”

“Who will be reaping the reward here? Us the consumers? The oil compaines? The foreign market?”

“That's OK sacco, I think pretty much all environmental organizations are scum (special disdain is held for that bunch of idiots who call themselves the "Sierra Club" keep wastin' your money and our environment by sending me huge envelopes packed full of freshly cut trees with pleas for donations inside ya whackos).”

“OK, so how about hearing from the other side?”

“"you bush backers think you some how know better? that's arrogance.”

It's about backing America, not Bush, you ignorant slut. If Clinto would have had the nuts to drill it I would have applauded him too. And just think, had the democrats NOT blocked this for the last 5 years we'd be benifiting from that oil. :)”

“

Oil Burn Off




An Oil Road”

“Nigal, how about the oil companies opening the upcapped oil wells before we drill??


WK, the oil companies will come out the winners.”

“look, here's my way of looking at the matter.

it's pretty simple. none of us really know all the facts. hell, the scientists running impact studies don't really know all the facts.

on one side is a group of nutcases(?) who's goal is to protect the environment. on the other side is a group of scumbags(!) who want to make money.

nutcases(?) vs. scumbags(!). i'll side with the nuts(?) every time.”

“That is pretty much how I feel Ewker. The talk around Chicago now is the upswing in gas prices. Analysists predict that gas will be going for around $2.50 a gallon by this sumer. That is the cheapest grade too.

I guess I picked a bad time to buy a car that needs the good gas. I filled it up yesterday, $52.00 total.

I am thinking about trading in the Jeep on the new Honda Accord V-6 Hybred. Going to look at one tonight.”

“and nigal, i believe america would be best served by protecting the global environment at all costs.

what good is all the material wealth in the world with a trashed environment?”

“The nuts are after money too sacco, don't be so naive please. They're in it for the cause, no cause no money, no money no cause. You fight on every front, no compromise, make things out to be worse than they are, becuase fanatics give the money that keeps the cause going.”

“"what good is all the material wealth in the world with a trashed environment?”

See, this is the type of demagoguery that gets us nowhere. As I stated before, it doesn’t have to destroy the drilling area. The bulk of the drilling would be done in winter. Ya know, when you can actually get out on tundra. There are few animals in the area at this time anyhow. By using the horizontal drilling techniques the foot print on the land is reduced by 68%.

If it’s so terrible for the environment why has the caribou population in the Prudo area gone from 3,000 to over 27,000 in the last 20 years?”

“bison, i'm not so nieve to believe that there is no corruption w/in environmental organizations.

i do however believe there is much less than in bush's cabinet.
you might find a few trout unlimitted and sierra club representatives in dante's hell, but i bet chevron and haliburton have their own level!

there's probably some dirtbags in the american lung ass. too, but i'd still take them over phillip morris in a morality contest!

nigal, i'm not talking about the specifics of drilling in ANWAR so much as the attitude of scraping every last drop of undeniably environmentally harmful oil - as opposed to putting more effort into renewable eco-friendly power.
last edited: 3/08/05 1:04:17 PM”

“hey that rode up there may have opened the way to a new trailhead. whoohooo, lets go there and leave trash in their jungle.”