French U-Turn

“France has announced it could assist any US-led military coalition if Iraq uses chemical and biological weapons.

The turnaround comes after strong French opposition to a war in Iraq, including threats to veto a UN Security Council resolution paving the way for armed conflict.


French ambassador Jean-David Levitte said: "If Saddam Hussein were to use chemical and biological weapons, this would change the situation completely and immediately for the French government."

Mr Levitte said a decision on any French participation in the war would be made by French President Jacques Chirac, if and when biological or chemical weapons were used.

Although he declined to give details on the possible shape of French participation, Levitte said, "We have equipment to fight in these circumstances."

And I thought that Saddam wasn't suppose to have any biological or chemical weapons!”

“France's opposition to the war had nothing to do with NBC WMD.”

“Just saw the story on Fox News. How typically French.”

“They are willing to give us some of their white flags.”

“Can you say . . .


Post war reconstruction contracts and access to oil??



I swear . . .if Bush let's the F-ing French anywhere near post-war IRaq he is a bigger moron than I think.”

“Probably so we can't see the "Made in France" stickers on the weapons of mass destruction.”

“hey does anyone have a link to the story somewhere?”

“Going to war with France as an ally is like going hunting without an accordion.”

“you're a little late bob, that quote's been posted about 10 times on TT.”

“I beleive Norman Scharzkopff (sp?) originally made the accordian comment.”

“The story is on CNN's homepage. Its been up there since morning.


I thought about making the link earlier today, just to stir the pot . . .but opted not to (lazieness more than anything else).”

“There's liable to be just as many if not more "made in the USA" labels on that stuff you know.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/16/national/16BIO.html

Why do you think we intercepted and edited Iraq's declaration to the UN?”

“Yeah, sure...like the French are going to send in troops AFTER these weapons have been threatened or used.”

“I don't see any inconsistency here, assuming the French do what they say.

Years ago when I was out to hear a band (at the old Armadillo World Headquarter's), a buddy of mine wanted to go beat the crap out of guy who knocked over our pitcher of beer. I told him I thought that was nuts and I wanted no part in it. Still, if the guy had pulled a knife on him I would have picked up a chair or anything I could get my hands on. I thought it was a stupid-a$$ reason to fight - but I wouldn't let a friend take a knife no matter how wrong he was at the start. I assume the same thing is at play here. (Fortunately, one of the guys at the counter heard the argument, gave my buddy a new pitcher of beer and talked him down).

Of course, he told me he was right - and that we never would have got the free pitcher if he hadn't been ready to kick some a$$. What could I do, but raise drink up.

You may think he was right, but let me tell you that the pitcher was Shiner (actually I don't remember what it was, but I thought that would make a good twist).”

“LOL @ pedxing! That's an interesting, and logical, way of looking at it. :-)”

“Ped, you're such a reasonable guy! I'll tell you why it steams me.

A. France has announced it could assist any US-led military coalition if Iraq uses chemical and biological weapons. Like we need their assistance? This isn't 1780 and the battle isn't at Yorktown

B. If Saddam Hussein were to use chemical and biological weapons... This statement implies that Saddam has these types of weapons.

C. Mr Levitte said a decision on any French participation in the war would be made by French President Jacques Chirac, if and when biological or chemical weapons were used. Again, I read "if" as meaning if Saddam chooses to use these weapons and "when" as the timing of their usage .

D. "We have equipment to fight in these circumstances." Duh, so do we dumba$$

So, the whole message is if and when Saddam chooses to use chemical weapons, all in violation of the UN resolutions that France hindered enforcement of. By the way if their chemical gear is anything like their cars, God help the person wearing it.”

“Savage, even though I can see your point about too little too late when it comes to the French- Keep in mind, we need their help. If the French do jump in, they share the casualties with everyone else, meaning more Americans get to come home alive, statistically speaking.”

“the French can u-turn up their ass”

“Who is the aggressor here? Who wouldn't use whatever resources were at their disposal, if attacked?

It sickens me that people are happy/elated that we are sending some of our best and brightest into harms way. I'm waiting to see our president don a "Commander and Chief" uniform (something Seuss-like, thinking Butter Battle) and shoot a rifle off a balcony.”

“I think it's funny... the biggest enemies of chemical weapons is fresh air and wind.”

“I like Ped's analogy, however, I think in this case, having the french help us would prolly do more harm than good. Imagine the logistical nightmare we'd have sending supplies from the rear when we had thousands of french troops retreating. Did ya think about that ped, did ya?”

“But what if we told the French the rear was in Baghdad, and painted unit crests on all their white flags? The sight of that many frenchmen running wildly toward their HQ, peeing their pants, might make Hussein think the French are actually battle mad lunatics who eat poison gas for breakfast. They could be useful.”

“Have any of you stopped to think that the German and French gov'ts might actually be trying to help us ---- by attempting to keep us from doing something stupid? I know; you might have a aneurysm.

I was too young to go to Vietnam, but I watched the body count on the evening news every night... from the time I was seven years old until I was seventeen. Then we pulled out of southeast Asia and the real mass murder began.

If things go badly in Baghdad, they can go very badly indeed. We already know Saddam is a butcher. Can we guess what he might be capable of when he's cornered? Another Jonestown or another Waco, only on a much grander scale?

No, let's not think about that. Let's make fun of the French.”

“I dunno if French support in the event of biological warfare use by Iraq would do any practical good. I was just saying that the French position has an internal consistency.

I take them as saying: we disagree about how to deal with the bad guy, but we haven't lost sight of who the bad guy is.”

“Maybe the French know that Iraq doesn't have chemical weapons. How easy to make a offer to help fight knowing fully well it won't be needed. Consider it analogous to pedxing offering to fight for his buddy if someone pulled out a bazooka in the bar. Not likely.”

“#&%!$ THE FRENCH!”

“What's with the French fixation? How childish. The Russians and Chinese made the same threat to veto the resolution.”

“Yea----#&%!$ THE RUSSIANS! #&%!$ THE CHINESE!”

“Hmmmmm, with all this brave posturing and pissing on France, where's all the macho bluster against Germany, Russia, and China?

Maybe they're too big to pick on.”

“LOL! Definitely Alaska... ifn the guy pulled out Bazooka Joe bubble gum, I woulda definitely had his back - my Wrigleys woulda been flying in no time.”

“I take them as saying: we disagree about how to deal with the bad guy, but we haven't lost sight of who the bad guy is.

How naive! I mean that's just risible! The French want a voice in the reconstruction of post-war Iraq. That's their biggest concern now that Bush has relegated them to the sidelines. France will insert their presence into Iraq one way or another. They're not about to let the U.S. soley dictate how the spoils of war are going to be divvied up. The French desperately want to remain relevant on the world stage.

I suppose you think the main motivation behind French opposition to the war was based on morality?”

“Hmmmmm, with all this brave posturing and pissing on France, where's all the macho bluster against Germany, Russia, and China?

Maybe they're too big to pick on."
Tom Terrific
07:19:02 AM
03/19/03

1. We never had to bail those guys out of numerous wars.

2. They may be allies, but precarious ones. France was supposed to be a strong ally of ours.

3. Germany, China and USSR are proven fighters, France is not, and doesn't deserve any sort of respect whatsoever from the US.

4. My great-grandfater, grandfather, and father put themselves in harm's way partly to free the French, or clean up after their mess, mainly so I and my kids wouldn't have to. Enough is enough, they are no longer an ally in my book.

5. Please note that all of the "old" European superpowers (Britain, Italy, Spain, Turkey), with the exception of Germany, aligned themselves with us, not France, prolly because they have had to deal with France's BS for hundereds more years than us.

In short, screw France and thier spineless opinions. Don't buy thier products, and don't travel there. Spain and Italy make some great wines, and obviously appreciate our long standing alliances.”

“I think French opposition was complex and multi-layered - economic interests, distrust of Bush, unease at the doctrine of prevention, concern about public opinion, belief that many more options should have been tried, national pride... etc. were part of the equation.”

“I see. In part you're right about economic self-interest. But, France was more concerned with making the EU a counterbalance to the U.S. than anything else. The big European fight over support of the war was more a reflection of the future of EU leadership - the France-Germany block or the pro-U.S. block. The actual issue of war with Iraq was not particularly salient compared to this overarching struggle of internal politics.

But knowing your perspective on this certainly makes clear your take on French offers of help.”

“I gotta go with Buddha on one of his last points: Spain and Italy make better wines for the money.

I also remember with great American pride - the day that McDonalds shut down a Paris franchise for poor food quality. The news definitely made my day.”

“Glad to see you still own the truth Muttster.

On a more important note: I should add that this friend did get me involved in fights at other times. One time he followed a car with his high beams on after a passenger gave him the finger. At a light, that passenger came over and kicked our headlights - both cars emptied. I ended up with a black eye but wrestled the guy to the ground (I'd worked at a mental hospital, and had over-drilled on how to take downs).”

“Please note that all of the "old" European superpowers (Britain, Italy, Spain, Turkey), with the exception of Germany, aligned themselves with us, not France, prolly because they have had to deal with France's BS for hundereds more years than us.

That's the only valid point you made.”

“Mutt owns the truth, but is willing to share.”

“Glad to see you still own the truth Muttster

Still can't defend your position, can you, pedxing? For one who obviously gets off on his image of "reasonableness", you don't make much of an attempt to consider other positions or defend your own.”

“Ped --

nice analogy . . .but too simplistic for my tastes.


While its great that YOU would have had you buddy's back . . .out of your deep and abiding friendship (and maybe he owed you some money). . .and for all the other right reasons . . .


I ascribe no such altruistic feelings of friendship to any nation . . .let alone to France.

France is angling to remain relevant on the world stage and to make some money in reconstruction.

Considering the the US has committed $1.5 billion of MY tax dollars to reconstruction, I'll be damned if a single f-ing dollar is going to go to the French.

Maybe if they send some ho's over to entertain the troops we can throw some money in their direction . . .but that;s it!”

“Well well well. Pedxing, it seems I can't claim sole ownership of the truth! LOL.”

“4. My great-grandfater, grandfather, and father put themselves in harm's way partly to free the French, or clean up after their mess, mainly so I and my kids wouldn't have to. Enough is enough, they are no longer an ally in my book.

This is not relevant?”

“The French have a history of being a sorry ally to America. have we forgotten how far our planes had to fly when we had to bomb Libya. ll the way around France, because they wouldn't allow flyover rights. Hell, we didn't even want to land there and they would have none of it.”

“Hyway, the U.S. wasn't a very good ally to the French. You do remember how the U.S. humiliated the French (and English) in Egypt, don't you?”

“You stupid dick munching crack babies. Washington wines are much better than Spain, Italy OR France's.”

“This is not relevant?

Only to you. Your jingoism and bigotry is sickening.”

“France sucks
France sucks
If they get invaded again, they're out of luck

[Deep Voice says]
France, they suck.

[Quick low-tone voice]
Piad for by the "france sucks, please subliminaly link that with wine and drink ours instead", Spanish Winemakers Coalition”

“No remind me how we humilaited them. I can only think of giving Isreal a country in the mideast, but I am sure our policies have pissed them off on more occasions than that. If it would make them happy, I'll check with the keepers of Time and see if we can go back to the aarly 1900's and keep America out of European affairs.”

“http://www.ehistory.com/middleeast/WarView.cfm?WID=33

International pressure = U.S. pressure.”

“See, Fance can't even take a lousy canal. The reason we probably put pressure on them is because we knew if it fell into French hands, they would probably lose it to a powerful Falkland Island force or somethin'.”