Bush making America safer in the future

“meow
last edited: 9/26/06 10:06:16 AM”

“Whoa!

Feeling rattled, SS?

Stop name-calling and bugger off!”

“You truely are a fool, MarkO.

Feeling rattled, SS?

Nope, why should I be.

You two are showing TT what fools you are.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
[VBG]”

“WOW..mjw..as opposed to jwgacyO is quoting a man on Death Row looking for a way to rationalize his behavior...LOL...mjw, I guess you do know that the work gullible is not in the dictionary?

I see and accept that you understand the real threat, so why not go to the fifth step of grief and ACCEPT that the only way for our society to survive is to admit Bush won in 2000 and 2004 and we support him like the Republicans supported slick when he was bombing Bosnia for no reason except to cover up his multiple rapes.”

“blow you marko Wow. Well I don't think my new wife would like that and since I'm not gay like you I don't think so.

It is really nice to see that when I start showing you examples of how your words could mean nazi and hitler your final comeback is "blow me" I know mjw called me a child yesterday but really I think he should redirect that.

If you want to get down to personal insults well have at it.”

“poor stovestomper.

cant argue about things rationally so he yells alot.”

“WOW..mjw..as opposed to jwgacyO is quoting a man on Death Row looking for a way to rationalize his behavior...LOL...mjw, I guess you do know that the work gullible is not in the dictionary?

I see and accept that you understand the real threat, so why not go to the fifth step of grief and ACCEPT that the only way for our society to survive is to admit Bush won in 2000 and 2004 and we support him like the Republicans supported slick when he was bombing Bosnia for no reason except to cover up his multiple rapes

what in the hell does any of this have to do with you calling the pacifists cowards and demanding that peace will never be possible?

learn to read. im quoting a nazi who's words describe your behavior to a T. simply because you whine like a three year old when you get called out on something doesnt mean the subject will change.

im trying to find out when it was i denied that bush won, or where i said anything regarding bosnia? please explain what nay of those things have to do with the issues at hand. who raped who? what are you talking about? cocaine? drunk driving? failed businesses?
last edited: 9/26/06 10:10:44 AM”

“All the dimwitted MarkO and kleetn have are personal insults.
[VBG]”

“Oh he compared someone on the right as a Nazi! Very original!

”

“Oh he compared someone on the right as a Nazi! Very original!

what, its true.

theres a reason the comparison is made often.

go ahead: read it.


"Of course the people don't want war. But after all, it's the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it's always a simple matter to drag the people along whether it's a democracy, a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism, and exposing the country to greater danger."

-- Herman Goering at the Nuremberg trials”

“Did anyone figure out if MJW backpacks at all. Or even steps foot in the outdoors.

Sarge may have been a troll but at least when asked said he backpacked our that he used to (I remember something about his back being bad)”

“i go at least once a month. you think i just found this messageboard randomly?

the first thread i put up on here was regarding the roaring plains area in west virginia.

so whats your take on xl400's behavior when compared to that described by herman goering? any thoughts? it seems like exactly what he's saying. but thats just crazy old backpacking me.
last edited: 9/26/06 10:22:19 AM”

“mjw...take it in context you blithering idiot. The quote is from a sweating prisoner who knew he would hang shortly. He was looking for anyway to excuse he behavior. We went through this before. It is called Rationalization (much like you do frequently). It much similar to the final days of Ted Bundy where he was blaming porno mags like Playboy and Penthouse for his murder spree.
If you use a quote know the historical context. By your theory Timothy McVeigh is innocent becuase he claims his actions were caused by Clinton's only real successful WAR. ...you remember where he called in the army and spent 51 days (LOL LONGER than the Iraq War) to wipe out 83 Christians.”

“mjw...take it in context you blithering idiot. The quote is from a sweating prisoner who knew he would hang shortly. He was looking for anyway to excuse he behavior. We went through this before. It is called Rationalization (much like you do frequently). It much similar to the final days of Ted Bundy where he was blaming porno mags like Playboy and Penthouse for his murder spree.
If you use a quote know the historical context. By your theory Timothy McVeigh is innocent becuase he claims his actions were caused by Clinton's only real successful WAR. ...you remember where he called in the army and spent 51 days (LOL LONGER than the Iraq War) to wipe out 83 Christian


i dont see how that quote excuses anything. how does admitting that you had intimate knowledge of the mechanics of the plan you are being accused of free you from any responsibility?

it just explains, very dramatically (when taken in context), how fascist states come to be. and, quite obviously, how a person who expresses things like you helps to keep them in power.

youre saying that this quote shows goering is blaming his ability to carry out a way to control people for his ability to control people? how does that make sense? do you know what a tautology is? you're mincing words worse than Clinton right now ("it depends on what the definition of "is" is")lol.

can you reply to one matter singly, or do you have to try and loosely compare it to a bajillion other things that arent quite the same?

it's like i can hear the google of your brain running on overdrive.

maybe it would help if you just stopped and thought about things.
last edited: 9/26/06 10:33:41 AM”

“redeyeflasherreduction - if i remember correctly, sarge had a torn ACL and had it operated on and now is section hiking the pennsylvania AT on weekends. what a great guy that sarge was. just incredible. can't say enough good things about him. sometimes i wish i was him”

“LOL!”

“*chuckle* @ moonglo”

“Moonglo I like sarge to but alot of people called him a troll. I was just trying to play middle man. I should just stop and resume my postion on the right.”

““All the dimwitted MarkO and kleetn have are personal insults."
[VBG]

Hmmmm, if that ain't an insult........

Very Bigoted Goober?

moonglo=split personality?”

“Stratfor finally weighed in on the leaked report. It pretty much confirms what I suspected (and posted here) - that radicalism has increased, but the strategic importance to US security is unclear:

Geopolitical Diary: Assessing the Leaked NIE
September 27, 2006 02 00 GMT

U.S. President George W. Bush announced Tuesday that he will release a classified National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) that was partially leaked to The New York Times and published on Sunday. The NIE reportedly says the war in Iraq has increased the threat of terrorism by increasing the number of people who have been radicalized and are willing to be recruited by militant Islamist organizations. Bush argued Tuesday that, had there not been a war in Iraq, radical organizations simply would have recruited operatives elsewhere, and he reasserted the claim that the United States is safer from attack because of the Iraq war.

This report and the debate surrounding it go to the heart of Bush's strategy, of course. He has argued that the Iraq war helped disrupt terrorist attacks against the United States by diverting the jihadists' energies to Iraq -- while his critics have argued that the war created a breeding ground for both anti-Americanism and Islamic radicalism, swelling the pool of potential recruits. It would appear that this is an argument in which only one side could be right; but in fact, both sides could have part of the picture correct.

There is no question but that anti-Americanism increased in the region as a result of the war, as did Islamic fundamentalism. The pool of people willing to carry out terrorist attacks in Iraq certainly grew. The pool of people willing to carry out such attacks in the United States also grew. What is not clear is whether the pool of willing people capable of carrying out such attacks also grew. It is not the number of people who want to carry out an operation that matters, nearly as much as the number of people able to carry out the operation.

Begin by distinguishing strategic terrorism attacks from tactical terrorism attacks. A tactical terrorism attack is characterized by being carried out within a society where the attacker is able to blend in, on a scale that is relatively easy to organize and that causes limited casualties. A suicide bomber in Iraq or Israel who causes a few dozen casualties is tactical. By itself it does not destabilize a society. It rises to the strategic level only when a very large number of such attacks take place. Thus, in Iraq, a large series of tactical events combine to create strategic destabilization.

A strategic terrorist attack has three characteristics. It is carried out at some distance, and certainly outside the geographical area where the attacker is at home. It causes massive casualties, sufficient to destabilize a society simply by itself. In order to protect it from penetration by security, a relatively few conspirators are involved. The obvious example of a strategic attack was 9/11, an attack carried out on an intercontinental basis outside the attackers' society, causing massive casualties and involving relatively few people.

The key to the 9/11 attacks was not the attackers' willingness to die. It was the ability to organize a small number of people to penetrate the United States undetected, to conceive of the attacks and to execute them. The primary skill was not carrying box cutters through security; it was the ability to operate covertly in enemy territory for an extended period of time and then execute the attack. If you think that's easy, imagine an American team of 19 people (plus support personnel) moving to Saudi Arabia or Iran and pulling off a 9/11-style attack. Strategic terrorism is hard to do.

There has been a massive increase in tactical terrorism in Iraq. That means that there has been a huge number of attacks in Iraq by Iraqis and by other Arabs and some Iranians. These attacks have certainly destabilized Iraq, but these attackers either have not been able to, or have chosen not to, conduct strategic attacks against the United States. This does not mean they will not do so later, nor that they will not succeed. It does mean that to this point, the very real upsurge in radical Islamist sentiment in Iraq has been tactical and not strategic in nature.

In this sense, the NIE is certainly correct if it winds up saying there has been a massive increase in the terrorist pool. Bush is correct in saying that, while this might be the case, it has not so far risen to the level of strategic operations. It might also be argued that the type of people being recruited are unsuited for strategic operations because of background or training. That argument is not altogether persuasive, as we would suspect that you could find 20 potential candidates in Iraq, assuming you had the training infrastructure needed to prepare them for strategic operations without detection.

The argument should be phrased this way. The number of tactical terrorists in Iraq has soared because of the war. The number of radical Islamists in the region has also risen by an indeterminate but substantial amount. This does not by itself translate into a strategic threat to the United States, because sentiment turns itself readily into tactical attacks but not into strategic ones. Therefore, until now, Bush's argument is compatible with the NIE.

The problem with Bush's argument is the phrase "until now." Bush can have no confidence that another team may not be in place or on its way. But his critics also cannot make the argument that if they are on the way, it was because of the Iraq war. After all, Osama bin Laden had no problem recruiting a strategic team prior to 9/11, without the Iraq war. Having a larger pool does not necessary increase or decrease the strategic threat.

There are many reasons to criticize the war in Iraq and Bush's execution of it; but even though on the surface this seems to be one of the strongest arguments against it, it seems to us to be one of the weakest. Strategic covert operations do not depend on large recruitment pools. They depend on strong expertise in strategic covert operations. Few people have that, few people are suitable for it -- and al Qaeda did not need a huge pool to hit the United States painfully.”

“And mjw666 goes down in flames (again).

Sorry, couldn't resist a childish jab.
last edited: 9/27/06 7:40:42 AM”

“WOW a leak, I bet the major media is going to jump on the hunt for the leaker like they did for the Plame thing...right??? Right? (LOL) Little Libbie Press...nope this damages the US the Libbie Press will jump on the investigation about the time that mjw's mom stops turning tricks.”

“I was watching Glenn Beck last night and he is of the opinion that the admin was the one to leak it knowing the left would go bonkers and demand investigations and hearings which they did in spades. Then Bush comes out and says, ‘Hey, we’ll declassify it. No problem.’ And all of a sudden the left is slamming on the breaks and wanting a secret meeting to review it first. Why a secret meeting all of a sudden?

These hockey helmet liberals are so damn easy.”

“The Inconvenient Truth is that the Bush administration had been in office 8 Months the first three of which the Liberacrats (heck lets call them who they really are THE CLINTONISTAS since Bill and Hill run the party like little robots) refused to let Bush appoint a Staff.
So now we look at the briefings from the ORAL administration...we find that Islamic Terroisim (despite what a bunch of Attacks on American Interests) rated...here it is..ONE FREAKING Sentence.
So Five Months, no pass down of intel and now it seems the entire Clinton policy was to watch football and get a BJ.

The truth is most of the Clintonistas want more deaths in America so they can say," See this administration is just as incompentent."
Pretty sad wanting your own nation to suffer so you can legitimize the most corrupt administration in history.”
XL400236
10:11:13 AM
9/25/06

Now there is a fractured fairy tale if I ever saw one. I'll need some evidence before I take history lessons from the guy who said there were no weapons inspections during the lead up to the Iraq invasion.”

“UM ped...Weapons Inspections...you mean where we informed the Iraqis WHERE we were going and if they had not cleaned out the place we were refused entry...okay so that is an inspection? OKEE DOKE.

Now you are aware he HAD WMDs, He HAD USED WMDs and we have FOUND them. Not in the sapacity of say Redstone Arsenal, but enough to kill a couple hundred thousand Americans....”

“the only wmds that saddam hussein ever had were the ones that we gave to him in the late 80's”

“mjw...you mean the soviet stuff he used on the Marsh Arabs and hit the cities in Iran with...the stuff he made? Okay, thank you now get the aluminum foil hat on tighter.”

“show me one source that says any wmds were found in iraq between 1995 and 2003

show me one source that links saddam hussein, pre-2003, to al-qaeda


if you take all the things that the bush administration claim are true as representative of a whole, you quickly realize that nothing adds up.

turn up your AM radio, talk about wwII some more, and keep on making excuses to blow people up.
last edited: 9/27/06 8:46:41 AM”

“Beer not fear.”

“http://blog.washingtonpost.com/earlywarning/2006/09/the_nie_the_president_and_the.html

many of you wont even read this cos you already think you know what it says.

but you should probably read it.”

“in eyes of most in the world, the United States has been "in" Iraq since 1991. We continued to bomb Iraq for a decade, we occupied the Middle East with our military forces, and we propped up and supported the most repressive and corrupt governments.

Ah, so it is all our fault!

At least the author acknowledges part of the real truth: Corruption, repression, and inner battles within Islam and Muslim states are the sources of the spread and growth of today's jihadist movement.”

“Say,' oil money' twenty times.”

“There are reports that shortly after the Iraqi invasion Iran made overtures about talks with America.
With Saddam brushed aside the world of the possible talks was taken to Cheney's office, where it was brushed aside in a way that can be sumarized as "We don't talk to evil."
Now three years on the realization that there could be no talks with America ended in the election of a hard-line regime and the ongoing nuclear crisis with Iran

Not so smart on the foreign policy front these boys.


And the growing threat to the US comes from Muslim's in Europe, carrying EU passports and typically finding it easier to enter and exit America.”

“If you are interested, you can read the 4 pages (of 30) that Bush chose to declassify: http://www.dni.gov/press_releases/Declassified_NIE_Key_Judgments.pdf

You have to use your imagination on the 26 pages he wanted to keep hidden.

Also, reports are that there is a second NIE that focuses specifically on Iraq. I wonder if we'll get to see that one before the election.”

“The cowardly trolls finially got out of bed today. LOL”

“Violin, that graph doesn't distinguish between tactical and strategic terrorist attacks, now does it. Very misleading.”

“Here's what Stove Stomper has managed to add to the discussion since I last looked at his posts.

MarkO works as a librarian's aid (pink collar) and he calls me a sissy.
He thinks cowardly trolls are 'real men'!
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!
[VBG]

"He also continues to skate free from the rules of participation demeaning others with impunity." - MarkO
Just like a stupid liberal. Blame others for your own sins.
What's the matter marko? You like to dish out the crap but cry like a little baby when you get it back. Some 'Real Man' you are. You keep up the crap and I'll keep dishing it back.”
StoveStomper
5:07:56 PM
9/25/06
“Hey InconvenientTruth!
You are a cowardly troll.
LOL
[VBG]”
StoveStomper
5:09:43 PM
9/25/06
You really make yourself look like a fool
“Cute how you are trying to make yourself into the victim. LOL

I'm doing nothing more that returning tit for tat.
If you can't take it, don't deal it out, crybaby.

Who repeatly said I was dropped on my head as a child? You.
Who told me to go kill myself by drowning myself? You.
Who expressed pleasure at my home damage from Katrina? You.
Who expressed the wish for me to have homosexual sex? You.

It never fails to amaze me how you think you can say anything, without getting anything back. You have made so many slurs against me they are to numberous to list.

You are an ignorant foolish twit. A real a$$hole.

Keep the crap up. You will get plenty back and more.”
StoveStomper
7:23:42 PM
9/25/06
MarkO is a liar in addition to being a crybaby
“?Little toe broken???

Soak your head for 10-15 minutes and that should clear right up.?
MarkO
2:01:42 PM
7/12/06”
StoveStomper
9:38:58 AM
9/26/06
“You guys still messing with the cowardly trolls?”
StoveStomper
9:52:30 AM
9/26/06
“Proven Liar.”
StoveStomper
9:58:54 AM
9/26/06
“You truely are a fool, MarkO.

Feeling rattled, SS?

Nope, why should I be.

You two are showing TT what fools you are.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
[VBG]”
StoveStomper
10:03:24 AM
9/26/06
“All the dimwitted MarkO and kleetn have are personal insults.
[VBG]”
StoveStomper
10:11:29 AM
9/26/06
“*chuckle* @ moonglo”
StoveStomper
10:37:11 AM

“The cowardly trolls finially got out of bed today. LOL”
StoveStomper
1:00:25 PM
9/27/06
9/26/06”

“http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120268,00.html

Thats a start

as for Al Qaeda in Iraq...there is the 9/11 commission

http://www.nationalreview.com/mccarthy/mccarthy200406170840.asp

But more importantly is WHY we went to Iraq. See There is this thing called the UNITED NATIONS, Big Building in New York full of useless idiots who pass resolutions. They passed a number of resolutions providing us with the right to enter Iraq and enforce a response to sanctions.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/5862/authority_for_use_of_force_by_the_united_states_against_iraq_under_international_law.html

But can you show me where President Bush said we were going after WMDs' (as a reason for the invasion) or after Al Qaeda (as a justification)

Now shall I show you a list of your heroes who were quoting the WMD and Terrorist mantra up until the invasion of Iraq.

Face it the libbies peed themselves at the thought of having to take action. As they have for 40 years they backed down and yammered on. The Republicans had to be adults....”

“The cowardly trolls still jabbering?”

“KL - Bush was very carfeul what he said. You can tell he and his team knew they were telling lies by the way he got Cheney, Condi, Powell and Rumsfeld to make all the accusations.
Bush's language always skirts round the issue.
If the rest of the team was so sure then why didn't Bush say anything?
I mean he wasn't trying to avoid something that it could be proved he lied about was he?”

“So Mutt - a American-born Muslim carrying out an attack on the Us would be considered tactical and not strategic?

The tactical and strategic division seems to have been created just to claim that the invasion of Iraq has been a success.”

“Uh huh....I am sorry but lets see someone else actually DID FREAKING LIE...and we were told it was no big deal. Lets see...he kinda skirted (LOL GOOD PUN) around the issue..what was it he said, "I didn't have sex with that woman." So since he came right out it probably wasn't a lie...”

“Lie about a BJ, lie about going to war and costing the deaths of 2,700 american service men and women, countless more injured, and the killing of tens of thousands of Iraqis and counting.
And you seek to compare the two?
last edited: 9/27/06 1:45:14 PM”

“So Mutt - a American-born Muslim carrying out an attack on the Us would be considered tactical and not strategic? - InconvenientTroll

Why do you automatically assume it's a Muslim? Why are you so RACIST?”

“Your own post does Mutt.

the war in Iraq has increased the threat of terrorism by increasing the number of people who have been radicalized and are willing to be recruited by militant Islamist organizations”

“Incontinent Truth..no it was a lie to obstruct an American Citizen from being able to have fair access to the American legal system. One of the hallmarks of the country is fair access to the system. His lie prohibited a citizen from getting a fair trial...not exaclty Defending the Constitution huh?”

“So you admit this administration lied to you then XL - thank you. A GOP voter who wants some accountability - at last.”