water filter help

“HI
New guy & family.... I want to carry a filter(s) to protect my family on day hikes and cmping, but am having a hard time choosing a "system".

I think I'd like a few bottle purifiers and one large-quantity pump purifier.

Thanks very much for any input!
-Blisters”

“Hey guys, maybe answer how to keep it from growing critters between uses. (please!!!)”

“I would get the Pur Hiker. I love mine and have had no problems”

“I have the pur hiker and the First Need Deluxe. Both of them are great. The pur hiker is very light, the first need Deluxe a little heavier but spose to get rid of viruses too.

I use either one of them depending on my mood. (how safe I feel?? dunn know!)”

“Pur hiker is a good system. Has never failed me in the field after hundreds of uses. I did replace the o-rings on it after 5 years because it wasn't sucking water like it used to.

Inbetween uses, flush/soak with a solution of water and bleach.”

“G00SE and I haven't been too impressed with the Pur Hiker's performance for the both of us, although he was quite pleased with it when he used to hike solo. We're thinking of going to the First Need Deluxe. The gravity feed filtration seems like it would be so convenient in camp.

The bleach and water flush works quite nicely to keep it from growing in between hikes.”

“Really, Skully? What have been your problems with it? Just curious.”

“Well, we did have it clog once but I really think that was our own falt. Problem was, there's no way to backflush it so we had to complete the hike (two days) with no filter. It's good that I carry iodine. Also, the output is rather low compared to others I've seen. Plus, like I mentioned before, it would really be nice to get into camp and let gravity do the filtering. I also like the added protection of a purifier over a filter. That's just my personal preference.”

“I take a suitcase nuke with me when BPing. I just drop it in the selected water source, run about 5,000 miles away then BOOM. When the mushroom cloud settles for drifts go in for your clean and clear water.

LOL

I use a pur Hiker.”

“I use a first need deluxe.”

“with Polar Pure. If its good enough for Jerbear, its good enough for me.”

“Here's an excellant reason to go with the First Need: link. Granted, this type of thing doesn't happen very often, but it does happen. The First need is also totally field servicable and if, for some reason, the pump breaks, it works as a gravity filter.

It will still clog up with silt occasionally, but you can clean it in the field, very easily.

So, welcome to TT! Where do you hale from?”

“I used Iodine or boiling only for many years.
The last 8 years or so I have used both PUR Hiker (Scout trips) and Sweetwater Guardian (personal trips). I love the convenience of immediate drinking water and have not had a problem with either.

That said, reviews show that a lot of people do have problems with Sweetwater, and a lot of other reviewers do not understand how.

Fact remains the Hiker gets high marks from reviewers and does pump much faster than the Guardian.

You wanted a high volume pump, PUR Hiker meets that need.

As far as purifying goes, I do not think the iodine contact time in ANY of the purifiers is enough to kill bugs. Most of these use a charcoal filter to remove the iodine so the contact time is only a few seconds and when using the tablets the instructions say 30 minutes before drinking.

I have used these filters in both clean and very dubious water (puddles on the trail). Hiking areas in the NorthEast Pa, NY, NJ, NH.”

“Anyone have a Katadyn Minifilter?
It's 8 oz and $89 at campmor.
The Hiker is 11 oz and $60.
I'm a lightweight nut so the 3 oz matters to me.
Everyone seems to like the Hiker but I want to know any realtrail users of the Minifilter.

Comments?

Bye the way, campmor has the MSR miniworks on sale for $50. Weighs 14 oz.”

“My first filter was the First Need. Worked well, but after replacing several cartridges I switched to the Hiker. No problems whatsoever in 5 years. There is just very little need for a purifier in N. America, and the extra weight and bulk of the FN.

I tried iodine the fall before last and got Giardia. Could have easily been my own fault. That SUCKed!

I tried the Aqua Mira last summer in Yoho. I liked that, and didn't get sick. I'd buy some if they sold it at the normal 3 or 4 places I get gear.”

“What is the purfification system on the First Need? I am considering getting one for my upcoming trek through South America.

LeSubtil: How often did you have to replace the catridge? They ain't cheap!”

“Rosey, replacement is every 100 gallons, and it's a structured matrix system. There's all kinds of info and test results at the general ecology site.”

“Thanks, Sass. Just checked it out. Looks like a great purifier! Will definitely be getting one! I also like you can gravity filter even if the rest of the filter clogs or craps out on you in the field. Very cool.”

“First Need - cartridges lasted slightly less than a season.
Hiker - cartridges last slightly more than a season.

Not that this is necessarily a fair comparison, given the possibly different amt. of use, turbidity of water, etc.”

“no problem Roseymonster.

Did you notice the smaller, supposedly lightweight purifier? I think it's new....never saw it before, but the weight doesn't look so light to me. Cost was less, as was the cartrigde cost.”

“I had one of these filters but I never had enough hands to use it solo. Turns out I'm just uncoordinated, cause people on the last Maine trip were pumping with one of those just fine. Anyway, I returned it to LLBean after watching LyndyS effortlessly pump water all by herself. I won't need a filter until I go on a trip outside BSP or Maine.”

“It seemed to be just a filter, sass. Otherwise, I'd go for it!”

“I cant comment on the hiker But I can help on the first need purifier.

the gravity filtration on the first need is pointless marketing hype.

Before each trip or whenever you hit town back flush the cartridge untill water passes easily thru it.
Never take a ceramic filter like the first need into freezing weather as the ceramic can crack making the fiter useless.

The first need relies on the fine pores in a ceramic filter to remove both bacteria and viruses from the water. Most filters like the hiker only remove bacteria and if viruses are suspected additional treatment is required.

Viruses are not a big problem in the US but the finer filtration of the first need can remove some chemicals and other contaminents that the hiker would allow to pass.

I have heard complaints about filters clogging and I will say this. All filters will eventually clog, It means it was doing its job and stopped a bunch of stuff you couldnt see. Smile, You didnt have to drink it :}”

“That's a good way to think of it DOM. Next time my filter clogs and the top blows off, spraying me with water, and I have to back flush it, I'll smile instead of cursing. ;)”

“I remember that curse word when the cap blew off. You were very funny in apolgizing for saying it.”

“LOL , you needed a shower anyway I bet :P hope you remebered to drop a quarter in matts swear jar..”

“I've used the PUR Scout (purifier) through Ladakh and Nepal And had no problems with tummy bugs. I stopped using it as a purifier after finding out it supposedly wasnt doing the job. I now have a MSR Mini-works and drop Micro pur Forte tablets into the filtered water. I figure the MSR works 'cos I gotta keep cleaning the ceramic filter all the bloody time! I intend to swap the PUR scout purifier cartridge with a filter cartridge and use the tablets, and see if there is any diference.

In glacial melt water I found prudent to take some water out of the river and let it sit for about an hour so the some of the silt would drop to the bottom, the stuff is like cement dust and clogs filters up in seconds. One of the benefits of trekking in Asia, you always have lots of time. (Also dont let anyone know you've got one when your over there or they will be queing up for a mile to use it!!)”

“Bunyip! We've missed you.

Yes indeed, letting the water sit helps loads. We bought a Cohglan's pocket water bag after last trip. It's a fancy pleated nylon bag that you can set down w/o spillage, but that also folds up tiny, and doesn't hardly weigh a thing.”

“Hey, Bunyip's back!


It's like this. Until a year ago I always boiled or packed in/cached the water I would need for a trip. I'm new to this filtering thing.

So keep loading up this thread with info, I'm soaking it up like a sponge.

FYI, the filter that clogged was brand spanking new, it clogged on the first use. We were filtering out of a nylon bag that we hung on a tree in the hopes that the organic matter would settle out. We didn't wrap the pre-filter with anything to help keep the filter from clogging. File that under lessons learned. I want a field-servicible unit now.

Sassafras, about the First Need. Is the cartridge ceramic? I was under the impression that it wasn't.”

“I'm not sure what it is Skully, but you do have to be careful it doesn't freeze. We either sled in water in winter or go where there's a pump or one of us gets the pleasure of wearing the cartridge in a pouch under our clothes and sleeping with it. It's not a big enough hassle, imo, to switch to a filter.”

“Thank you ma'am. I emailed the same question to the company. I'll let you know what the response is. I'd think you'd have the same problem with any filter cracking since water expands when it freezes.”

“I know with the sweetwater guardian we followed the manufacturer's instructions for storage and kept the element in the freezer. I guess so no creepy crawlies started to grow or something.

The cartridge on the first need is sealed, can't see what's inside and what's inside can't get out, lol. I'll be interested to hear what General Ecology says the matrix is made from. I bet it is ceramic.”

“The first need purifier (delux) does use a ceramic filter by general ecology...

paper filters usually dont crack :D

dont freeze the ceramic, ever! if your storing it rinse it out with a solution of bleach and water, flush well before next use. Also a good time to test it with the blue dye...”

“Yes, but their plastic housings do ¦ ) .”

“...straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. LOL, I love mixing metaphors like that.


This is an exerpt, it was sandwiched between lengthy paragraphs of promotional marketing hype. I'll spare you that.

In reply to your inquiry - First Need canister is not a ceramic canister. General Ecology® “Structured Matrix™” canister is strong enough to handle backpacking as long as it is handled the way you treat any precision mechanical device.


Apparently in the interest of proprietary corporate secrets, etc they are unable to divulge the actual material contained in their cartridge but it is not ceramic. I'm betting on membrane technology or perhaps spun glass filtration combined with a solid phase extraction cartridge, but I could be wrong about that.

Just don't drop it or let it freeze I guess, lol.”

“Looks like once my filter does clog Im gonna have to cut it open and take a peek, Mine was originally listed as ceramic when I bought it and now ya got me really curious...

see what you started, next time I go out, Im going to sit up late wondering whats inside untill I go nuts.

{:O”

“I've been using a Pur Explorer for the past ten years and it's definitely time for me to learn about newer filtration systems. I've always been suspect of numerous claims made by these companies. In a half-baked attempt to get info, I emailed Pur for more information regarding their tritek iodine filtration system and just got a bunch of company BS.

How does the tritek system release iodine "on command", or is it really just a slow release system?How long does it really take for iodine to kill different microbes and parasites? The iodine needs to move from the resin to the bug and then absorb into the bug, AND then kill the bug! Also consider that in colder temperatures, contact time has to be appreciably increased (ALOT!). I would imagine with such a short contact time (unless the bug and iodine is stopped by the mechanical filter) at best, I'm just swallowing a bunch of half dead buggies.

Then there's the issue of the charcoal filter. Sounds good, right? As Manuka mentioned, won't a properly working charcoal filter just take the iodine right out of circulation?!? Activated carbon/charcoal is very good at removing chemicals, bacteria and small materials, but once the charcoal filter become saturated with materials, they will start releasing captured materials back into the water. So you have to bring along the crystal ball to know when to change the filter!

I fashioned a Sweetwater Silt-stopper prefilter to the Pur and it has extended filter life, you can really see all the crap the prefilter pulls out. I also carry iodine tablets as a backup. Speaking of iodine tablets, once again, I'm skeptical about how long the iodine water needs to sit to really be effective. I crush the tablets (especially for really cold water) before putting them in, this helps to get the iodine into solution much quicker.”

“There is only one sure way of water treatment and that is to boil. With any type of chemical or filter treatment there is always be a small chance that you could get sick. None of these thinks are fool proof. Filters like the Pur Hiker or the First Need have many hours of use by many people on this site with exellent results so I don't think the risk factor with those is high.”

“Yeah I know DOM. It's getting to me too. I must know what's inside it now.”

“Must Hike, the great thing about the First Need is you can test it everytime you want to use it. Simply put a drop of food coloring in some water and pump away, if your clean water comes out clear, you're good to go. If it's colored, there's something not working right. Maybe not fool proof but darn close.”

“Sass, is that a valid test for the Pur Hiker too? Because I just tried that, and my water comes out colored still.

I think I might need a new element on my Hiker anyway. When I shake it, it rattles...”

“WOW looks like I asked the right question! Sassafras, sorry I didn't reply right away (you may not even see this), but I don't get on the Net more than once or twice a week. I'm form So Cal and as my two daughters get older we have been spending more time away from the cities. It's tough to hike now as my oldest is only 4, but we slowly 4-wheel to quiet areas and then soak in Nature.

All of you, THANKS very much for your help! :) I had considered the Exstream individual bottles, but I think I will go with the PUR Hiker.”

“Bunyip-- what are those Micro pur Forte tablets you mentioned? Are they iodine tabs?”

“hmmm.

Well, after the handle broke on my First Need broke a couple of years ago, I bought a PUR Hiker, and it's still in the box. If it's warm outside I treat with polar pure. If it's cold, I boil it.

As far as filters go, I remember folks saying, "East of the Mississippi, filter. West... purify". How well do you think that Rule of Thumb applies?”

“Bit, the pur hiker is a filter so it wont filter out the dye like the first need will. This is because the first need uses much smaller pores to remove viruses which the pur hiker cant. The first need is unusual in that it mechanically removes virii down to the .1 micron size where other purifiers add iodine after filtering to the .3 micron level. The hiker filters to the .3 micron size but stops there. Additional treatment is needed if a virus is suspected. Virii arent a big problem in the US so the hiker is in fact adequate to keep the bugs out. One major problem in the US is chemical pollutants in the water but how well filters or purifiers do with them is unknown...”

“Sas I have the First Need and it's been great, I like the fact that it has a smaller pore size for me that is important. I'll be doing the dye test today to get ready to head out next weekend.”

“OK thanks DOM. I was wondering if that was the case. I'm going to switch back to my PUR hiker. My other filter, a Safe Water Anywhere, just takes too long to filter the water.”

“Blisters, Too bad you're so far away! I was going to invite you and the kids to the "It's all about the kids hike", here in MI. Of course, you're still invited....just a LONG way to come for a weekend!”

“Yeah, Sass, MI is a ways! But thanks for invite, that's great. Few decent people here, though my new job has put me among outdoors- and kid-oriented people.

One of my reasons for asking about filtration is my concern for potable water after a chemical or biological attack (yes, I think there are idiots out there who would do it), or even just another big earthquake. A couple of the guys (older, divorced) say just expose my daughters to the attack and end their suffering, but I couldn't do that. The majority of our water comes through an unmonitored, often unfenced aquaduct hundreds of miles long; it would be extremely easy to poison our water here.
That's also why I expose my girls to the outdoors; to be self-reliant one day. Good thing my wife grew up on a ranch!”

“I thought you were from S. CAL... for a second there you sounded more like montana....

:}”