Could Use All Your Support

“It sounds as if you are making good decisions.”

“Monkeyboy, if you'll reread my posts, you'll see that I am ALSO in a recovery program (for codependency). Thanks for the good wishes.

Waterdog, I know all about all of it. I've known him for 5 yrs. and for most of that time we were in a relationship. I know all about the lifestyle changes. I know all about the relapses. I know all about the stats, the facts, the myths, the different treatment programs, the different recovery programs, etc. I'm well aware, well educated, and very ready. It is the right decision. And you can be assured that I have protected my child as much as a mother can. It might be good to remember and accept that alcoholism is a disease. He isn't a bad person . . . it's a bad disease.

Mtnsteve, thanks so much. Stories like yours are keeping us going when the going gets tough right now. Congrats on your sobriety!

Briar, you are just tooooo cute!”

“I wasnt aware of any of this, guess I missed that thread. Glad its working out for you, I know more then one person who does fine so long as they keep a cork in the bottle.

People react to stess in different ways, some develop eating problems while others post in chat rooms :} what ever you do take good care of yourself for the sake of newergirl as well as yourself.

(shoot. Now I gotta get rid of all those life size posters on my wall.)

best of luck.”

“Newgirl, I hope that all your dreams come true. It sounds like everyone is doing their part. Congratulations on the engagement! =D”

“Newgirl, reading your post is uplifting. I hope all goes well for you and your family. It had to be a difficult time for you and you've got alot of sticktuitiveness to be where you are. Too many are quick to give up. I have learned the hard way to never say never about anything. My marriage is now healthy, growing, and moving in the right direction after some terrible storms. I carry alot of baggage not from my spouse drinking but from growing up in an alchoholic home. My Dad has been sober for many years, but Al Anon is my help to unravel the knots in me. I continue to work on it daily. It makes me a better human. My Mom finally got me to go about 5 yrs ago. I'm glad I listened. I am reading Courage to Change each day. It makes a difference. I've learned to value people who are honest and ready to get real about the way things are. I am excited for you and the possibilities that lie ahead. :-)”

“Good luck, newgirl. Give it your best shot.

But also, don't be ashamed or sad to some day call it quits if it doesn't work. You have given this your all. That's all you can do. Sometimes it's best to throw in the towel and work on something new and positive. There is just too much hurt from the past.

I speak from the fact I went with a guy for seven years. And the whole time he had this whole other woman in his background. Nicest guy in the world otherwise. When confronted, he said, oh it will stop.

It didn't stop. It had started long before me... and I have every reason to believe it continues today. Why it continues? I'm not sure. She's married. Maybe that's the allure, just flings with a good, longtime friend... no added baggage of trying to make a future.

I feel, if someone is seeing this guy, like I need to say, "Hey, have you talked to him about past problems with relationships??" But I don't. I feel bad for someone going out with him. lol... and from what his girlfriend before me said to me one time in a bar, I think she knew what was going on, too.

Anyway, I discovered in this that despite best intentions, sometimes things do not change. And even though dealing with the old, familiar problem might almost seem preferable to dealing with the scary new stuff out there in the world, ie, new relationships... sometimes it's best to move on.

Keep this all in mind as you go ahead. And I do wish you the best.”

“Sounds like things are going well for the three of you, newgrirl. I wish you and your family all the best on your long journey ahead.”

“Good for you guys! Keep the faith and just keep thinking about Newergirl.”

“Wow! Thanks everybody! I really, really, really appreciate all the good wishes. Also, let me clarify, we are not yet OFFICIALLY engaged, but we are working in counseling to get to that point. It is definitely our goal to get married.

Dana, glad to hear that there are others out there getting "real" about alcoholism. It is a deep disease and it effects entire families for generations. You and I can be happy. In our families it can stop w/ our generation, because we made a choice to do the hard work of changing.”

“Sounds like an improving situation, Newgirl! Even without problems like alcoholism, relationships (incl. marriage!) take a lot of work - I admire you for taking on such a big load. Hang in there - sending support your way....”

“God, what a thread! This site has it all. I need to digest this a bit, but right now I'm amazed to find something like this here.”

“Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable Ldhiker. But life isn't only full of pleasant moments for most of us. Something good is coming out of this for me and I just wanted to share the good news and ask for support. I'm being real and honest.

Thanks Martyb!”

“Oopps, I didn't mean to sound negative there. More power to you in this worthy quest. I, or people close to me, have been thru many of the same issues. If your daughter's accomplishments in life, which will be largely affected by your success of lack thereof, are as rewarding to you as my childrens' are to me, it will have been well worth the effort. You are in our thoughts and prayers.”

“I gess I can say some theengs.

Me and my hubsand Gissmo are perty happy I gess. We take goooood care of eech nother.

Gissmo is a goood pervider. The nother day he sneeked a terky karkiss from the naybers hous. Me and my daddy sayed "ah ah ah! look byside the rode wher Gissmo is comin up the dribe way - he got a ded terky karkiss!"

It was a fun site to see Gissmo walkin aroun with that BIG ol terky karkiss!

Anyways, my daddy broke it in haff so me and Gissmo culd eet the terky karkiss.


Gissmo perteks me to and I pertek him.

The nother nite when me and Gissmo and my daddy was helping the Land Man get a cow in the fents the cow tride to RUN OVER ME AND MY DADDY! but Gissmo sayed "you crazy cow better get in that fents!" and he gave the cow bites on his nose and made the cow run the nother way and run in the fents! Gissmo is verry brabe.

Gissmo prolly saved me and my daddy from gettin ded!

Then the nother day we was all at Vents and Glorys hous and Hooch (Hooch is a rokwyler) keeped gettin Gissmo mad and I finely hopped on Hooch and sayed "you better leeve my hubsand along if you do not want to get resseled up!" and Hooch sayed "I am sawry Miss Sarabelle!" and runned to his fents. I was perdy mad!

And of cores me and Gissmo give eech nother good sniffys and regler likkys and kwikky likkys. Yall mite try that some nother time to.

Mebbe me and Gissmo will go to Monnaloosa and tell yall some nother ideers.

By.
We got to go to Norf Carliner Creek Woods now with our pakpaks.”

“Good luck and God bless you all.”

“I forgot to sign,

Doug”

“Newgirl, waterdog seems to give the only voice that does not offer the support you are seeking. I know it is not the warm and fuzzy, all the family is together kind of .... fairy tale dream, they all lived happily ever after outlook. That would be nice, and I think we are all hoping for that for you, myself included. But waterdog may have the voice of harsh stark reality here. Perhaps you should consider his words....”

“Monkey, I haven't just considered Waterdog's words. I've lived them. As I posted, I don't put every detail on this board, but I like to be straight about my life. You can be assured that I have been through a whole, whole lot w/ him. If it is likely to happen w/ alcoholism . . . then we've probably been there. Legal, financial, mental, emotional, physical . . . all kinds of impact for alot of yrs. now. Denial, realization, breakthroughs, set-backs. I have the T-shirt. I've gone on all the rides at the theme park.

I think what Waterdog had to say is valid and I'm not ignoring it. I just wanted to be clear that I understand all about alcoholism as an individual and family disease. We are taking care of things really well and in a healthy fashion.

Waterdog said help from the Heavenly Father can work wonders. He's working quite a few wonders for us.

I think someone like Mtnsteve might be able to elaborate. (If he is so inclined.)

Ldhiker, sorry, I think I misunderstood what you were saying. Thanks for the good wishes.”

“You deserve the best, and I'm glad to hear that things are working out for you. Good things happen to good people, and it looks like you prove that old addage.

Good luck Newgie!”

“Newgirl, I appreciate that you do engage the discussion. And this is, obviously, very important to you. You certainly have a desire to remain with Below Zero (Is that still his handle?) And if it was just you, I'd be inclined to say "have at it, it's your choice, and your life".

I have never been involved with an alcoholic in any manner. I have paid attention when I see a situation, heard all the buzz, and listened to stories from loved ones who have been involved with alcoholics. I can not, for the life of me, understand why anyone would want to involve themselves with an alcoholic. It must be love...or dependency, or duty... some driving force. I don't know what would happen were, say, my wife were to become and alcoholic. I doubt I would abandon her. I guess what I am saying, is that while I don't know why you want to stay with him and work with him to get through it, I am trying to put myself in your position, and I guess the motivation is there.

That being said, I do wish you well, and Below Zero also. We have a close family member who has married an alcoholic (pretty much against everyone's wishes). He seems to be in the program, and a pretty decent guy too. We have not seen him fall off the wagon, or any evidence of any kind of abuse, or anything at all negative. It seems to be all good. While we do not wish to be naysayers, we all do dread the day that he does fall off the wagon, so to say. ( I know, it sounds like we are expecting him to). Actually, things really do look pretty good for them, and we are happy for them so long as that continues. We haven't seen them "buy the t-shirt and go on every ride in the amusement park".

As I said, if it were just you and him, have at it. But what about Newergirl? Does she get any say in this? Sure, she wants her Daddy, what little girl wouldn't? A two parent home for her!! But at what price? Is this poor little girl being dragged around "on every ride in the amusement park" and being forced to "wear the t-shirt"? You can't just drop her off at the kiddie rides and have a loving parent watch and wave to her while she goes on the merry go round. Not while the two parents are going the wildest craziest looping and twisting roller coaster. You have to bring her along for a ride that she is clearly not capable of handling, dragging her by the hand, no matter how scared she is.

If his act is not cleaned up, and he chooses to abuse alcohol, and you choose to be with him, for any part of this, Newergirl is right there also. She does not deserve this in any way.

I hope I am not making any assumptions that are out of line here. But I would assume there are some kinds of boundries and safety nets in place here. For example, our loved one who married an alcoholic. We have already discussed what should happen should there be an incident. Our home would become a temporary refuge, for our loved one only. He would not be calling here, visiting here (we have a good police department), or harrassing us or her in any way. This will be a base for her to clear her head, and decide what she wants to do. This is not a place for her to bring her problems, that she has chosen to take upon herself, and then place them on us. We won't take that upon ourselves. If she wants contact with him, she can arrange to meet him elsewhere, hopefully at a very public coffee shop. As adults, we are choosing to provide a safety net for her, but not have our lives ruined because she chose to marry an alcoholic. Yes, our hearts would ache for her, were it to go bad, but we are not going there. That's not the ride we want to go on.

Newergirl doesn't have the ability to decide for herself. You are doing that for her, and you sound as though you love her very much. You are her protector, the one she looks to for everything: food, hugs, baths, etc... did I mention protection from harm of all kinds. You posted: You can be assured that I have been through a whole, whole lot w/ him. If it is likely to happen w/ alcoholism . . . then we've probably been there. Legal, financial, mental, emotional, physical . . . all kinds of impact for alot of yrs. now. Newergirl does not deserve this, does not need this, and will not prosper with this.

The question is: Is this all behind you now???? Or is this still a work in progress with more of the same in the future? Do you really want to subject her to more of the same in the future? I don't know your situation very well at all, and really, I don't know you, Below Zero, or Newer girl. I have worked in too many Low-income housing projects, and seen too many alcoholics ruin too many lives. I have shaken my head in saddness too many times. Please consider what you are proposing to Newergirl. You are all she has.

Below Zero can get his act together, without being there for the downside. You can see him, and build a relationship with him. He can support Newergirl and you, without having to live there. The point is, if he is living there, and the "downside" occurs, what does Newergirl get to witness? What is your safety net if things go wrong? What is hers? If, if, if,.... if it were a perfect world, Below Zero would not be an alcoholic. But he is. He has made choices that have had a profound effect on his life. And you are making choices that will have a profound effect on Newrgirl's life, either for good or for bad. Consider carefully, her life is in your hands.

Perhaps, I am saying too much, and you are asking for support on this thread. In any case, I do wish all three of you well.”

“Allow me to fill in the consequences for monkeyboy. My ex had an alcoholic father and was ummm...mistreated. Between her problems and my not being prepared to deal with them,I was driven to the point where I belonged in a rubber room and will always bear the scars. While I can understand you giving him a second chance, If he ever goes near a drink again dont wait a single moment, take newergirl and leave.”

“If I recall, isn't this a third chance? Or maybe it's just a continuation of the "second chance." I was thinking you two had tried to be together (and "Below Zero" had then posted here, briefly) and had split up once after your initial try.

Or maybe that was the first time and you've been working on it all this time and I just haven't realized, cuz it hasn't been mentioned.

I know a business cohort married to an alcoholic. A closet acoholic. Before it was discovered, she left him once for a guy on the net. And then she left him again, again for a guy on the net.

When he made the decision to stick with her for counseling and see where it would lead -- as opposed to bailing out -- it seemed a sense of obligation. A son to graduate from high school this year... a family where no divorces had ever taken place (though his mother stressed she wanted him to leave this woman).

How does it seem now? I don't see her. Truth be told, I don't see him that much. At a couple company functions, they each have just gone their separate ways. Didn't seem like a happy couple.

He is a marathoner. He is almost anorexic. Waaaaaaaay thin. I can't help but wonder if he's running from things he could have walked away from. He started running about the time she first left him.

As for their older daughter, she had said to someone at the time, she wished her mother would just leave. That doesn't sound like a lot of respect, although -- on his part -- it was done "for the kids."

Just some things to think about. And let's not give your guy the moniker "Below Zero." It's cute in a tongue-in-cheek kinda way, but sheesh, you don't want that to be a self-fulfilling prophecy.”

“Having spent the first 20 years of my life surrounded by alcoholism/drug abuse and then losing one of my sisters to a drug overdose (3 months after leaving a treatment program), "Going on all the rides at the theme park" and "having the t-shirt" seem like pretty lighthearted euphemsisms. I have to agree with monkeyboy about the back-up plan. And always remember that YOU are newergirls back-up plan.”

“Wow! I think a little too much has been assumed here. When I said we have been through everything that alcoholism has to offer and I included physical impacts in that, I did not mean physical abuse. I meant physical health problems related to the stress of the situation. He has never, ever, ever abused me or Newergirl and never, ever, ever would. I assure you, if that had or was even remotely likely to happen, this thread would not exist.

Monkey, there are boundaries and safety nets, but they are not in place because I might get attacked. They're just there, 'cause I'm careful w/ my life and my child's. Often a side effect of alcoholism is financial strian . . . I have boundaries and nets for those possibilities.

I think very, very carefully about every decision I make and how it will play out for my daughter. I'm a young parent, but I'm not a crappy parent. I do everything w/ her in mind. I don't ever "just drop her off at the kiddie rides." She is the prime, top of the list, focus of my life.

Lizs, this is the 3rd chance. We've been working at it for close to a yr. now. The decisions have been made slowly, he has held up his end of the bargain and I have held up my end. We've gotten education about all aspects of alcoholism and we are dedicated to recovery.

Also, the name "Belowzero" that he posted under for a short time, was in ref. to his having done quite a bit of winter bping here in MT. He has camped in the mtns. at well below zero many times. It has nothing to do w/ his previous lifestyle or alcoholism. Alcoholics and addicts of all kinds are not "below zero" people, they are sick w/ a disease. I realize that is very, very hard to accept for most people.

RunningGirl, I agree that "going on all the rides at the theme park" and "having the t-shirt" are light-hearted euphemsisms. I try to be "light" about it whenever possible. That isn't to say that I don't take it seriously, that's just to say that the drama of it is behind me and I can choose to look at it in a humorous way. I don't have to be a victim of alcoholism. I can be a victor over it.

I wish I could explain in detail the disease and how it works in a whole family. I wish I could educate all kinds of people about it. It will just have to be enough to say that in my family it stops w/ me.”

“I've avoided posting my opinion, but newgirl, it's sounding like you're in denial. That "it won't happen to me" syndrome which when it does, leads to making excuses for him...etc.

If you think that getting pregnant at a young age and having an alcoholic boyfriend for a year or so, means you are "experienced" you've only touched the tip of the iceberg. You say you've bought the t-shirt, gone on the rides - has he stolen from and lied to you, your family and friends, has he left newergirl alone/been drunk while watching her, forgot where he left her, driven drunk with her, abused either of you (physically or mentally) - if he hasn't yet, he probably will in the future and that means you haven't ridden all the rides yet. If you think these things won't happen, that he won't do that, think again. Generally people with addictive personalities spend their lives trading one addiction for another - are you ready to deal with a lifetime of babysitting this guy? What happens if you have a fight or leave him - is he gonna fall off the wagon or what? You are knowingly and willingly bringing an addict into your family - have you thought about all that? Not just newergirl, everyone.

I appreciate that you feel you need to "explain things" to the rest of us, that somehow we couldn't possibly understand, but you're wrong. I think there's many "been there" done that's in this crowd.

I guess the most important question is - are you with this man because you truly love him or because you think you owe newergirl a two-parent family?

I hope this doesn't sound like I'm slamming you, I wish you well with whatever happens and I sure hope it works out as you wish. However, I'll join the others in saying, why would you enter into something like this on purpose? Your young, cute, smart, have an adorable little girl - why not have a GREAT life!”

“Newgirl, I suppose I can understand you giving him a chance, if you're up for the challenge. I'm sure this is something that mostly will be up to HIM to make the descisions whether or not HE doesn't drink again. It's very hard for an alcoholic to stick to it. It's not that it can't be done, but it will be up to him, you are only the supporter or enabler however you want to look at it.

I know this from personal experience, both my father and brother are alcoholics and now I have a son-in-law that is one also. I warned my daughter of it, it's very hard to watch someone that you love drink themselves to death. My father died, not from that, but that didn't help, he died from a heart attack at the age of 62. My brother(age 48) now is fighting with liver damage as well as other complications from substance abuse. I had a very close friend die from liver damage recently, a year or two ago at the age of 39...literally drank himself to death. I don't mean to scare you or anything, but that's the honest truth and reality of alcholism.

It is a disease without a germ causing it, only an individual choice, which no one knows until they find out the hard way. I do wish you luck and hope the best for you and your daughter. There may come a time for you to make decisions, maybe not, only you will know if it's all worth it or not, but you'll have to decide what is best for your daughter.”