WMD?

“Yeah it's possible Bush didn't sign it for those reasons - I'm sure that's what he said in fact.”

“Bacpac. You said:

"You believe Saddam Hussein and accuse that the American men and women who are fighting this war will fabricate evidence?"

Just because believe that there are people who would plant or phony up evidence does not mean that I think US troops are going to do it, nor does it have any indication that I believe Saddam about anything. CIA, Bush operatives and a lot of other people have the contacts to do this - and weren't they planning to have a disinformation project before people got all ticked off? And aren't a lot of the people in the Bush administration connected to the same folks that brought us the web of lies and deceit in Iran-Contra?

If I had to choose who to trust, Bush or Saddam - I'd trust Bush (and I trust our troops far more than I trust the Bush boys). But I don't have to trust either. Saddam will lie whenever it suits him, but that doesn't mean he has a monopoly on lies and deceit.”

“isn't a rocket that can demolish an entire building, or city block a WMD? there are a ton of those over there...and most are ours”

“Just the way the good Lord intended.”

“More conspiracy theories.

What a bunch of boneheads.”

“The Bush Administration presented a lot of evidence to the UN. Try watching CSPAN instead of Sponge Bob."
bacpac
04:09:49 PM
04/09/03

And if you paid attention, the UN inspectors dismissed every bit of so called "US intelligence" as "total garbage." You just never give up with your propaganda, do you.”

“And if you like conspiracy theories, look no further then the Bush administration:

By Bill Press
Tribune Media Services

WASHINGTON (Tribune Media Services) -- "In this world," Benjamin Franklin once famously wrote, "nothing is certain but death and taxes." Were he alive today, wise old Ben would have to add: "the daily FBI terrorist alert."

For the last two weeks, FBI alarms have been ringing with alarming regularity. First, we were warned of a possible attacks on Washington-based financial institutions. Banks were closed for a day. Nothing happened. Next, warnings of attacks on shopping malls. Extra guards were deployed. Nothing happened. Then, direct hits on the Brooklyn Bridge and Statue of Liberty. They closed both. Again, nothing happened.

The latest: an official notice this week to beware of terrorists in scuba diving gear.

Next thing you know, they'll be warning us to watch out for terrorists masquerading as barnyard animals. Quick! Run down that cow crossing the road. It could be an al-Qaida member disguised as Daisy.

FBI alerts, in fact, have been issued with such frequency lately that nobody takes them seriously anymore. There is, after all, something to that old tale about the boy who cried wolf. The FBI has cried "wolf" too many times.

And besides, even if you did want to take their warnings seriously, the FBI never tells us what we're supposed to do about them. To most Americans, a warning to look out for scuba divers is not a lot of help. In most parts of the country, you could spend your entire day, if not your entire lifetime, without seeing one ?and, when you do, they're underwater.

Why is the FBI, which issued no warnings of possible terrorist attacks before September 11, now suddenly flooding us daily with dire threats? There are two explanations. The first is that the FBI is being taken for a ride.

Consider the source. Most of the warnings released in recent weeks have come from interrogations of al-Qaida and Taliban prisoners held at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. The primary source is Abu Zubaydah, believed to be Osama bin Laden's former chief of operations, who first warned about bombings of shopping malls, banks and apartment complexes.

Zubaydah hasn't been right about anything so far. Yet, for some reason, the FBI still continues to take everything he says literally, even to the point of absurdity. When Zubaydah recently suggested terrorists might be taking clues from the 1998 remake of the monster movie "Godzilla," gullible agents rushed out to rent the video, discovered scenes of the Brooklyn Bridge and the Statue of Liberty and, as noted above, immediately shut both landmarks down. Meanwhile, Zubaydah must have been laughing out loud in his cell.

Why believe Zubaydah, especially now? It was foolish, in the first place, to think a top bin Laden agent would so quickly turn tables and reveal the al-Qaida game plan. It is more foolish now, after so many wild goose chases, to continue taking him seriously.

Clearly, he is playing mind games with the FBI. Unfortunately, based on his wild statements, the FBI is, in turn, playing mind games with the American people.

The second reason for the sudden flurry of FBI warnings: a giant, bureaucratic CYA. Or, as CBS national security correspondent David Martin more politely puts it: "Right now, they're putting out all these warnings to change the subject from what was known prior to September 11 to what is known now."

Every day brings more embarrassment to the FBI. We now know an agent in Phoenix wrote a memo on July 10, 2001, warning that bin Laden operatives might be training for terrorist activities in American flight schools. The next month, an agent in Minneapolis raised suspicions about Zacarias Moussaoui, expressing fear that Moussaoui ?who applied for lessons on how to steer a 747, but not how to take off or land ?might be planning to fly a jumbo jet into the World Trade Center. Both agents were ignored by Washington headquarters.

No wonder the FBI wants to change the subject. They fell down on the job. Now they're trying to overcompensate and cover their collective bureaucratic behinds. But it's too late.

A cascade of phony warnings today is no substitute for having failed to take appropriate action before September 11.”

“And if you paid attention, the UN inspectors dismissed every bit of so called "US intelligence" as "total garbage." You just never give up with your propaganda, do you."
Alaska
08:51:10 PM
04/09/03



That is a lie. It never happened.

Quoting Bill Press is perfect. He is the classic wacky liberal. King of Conspiracy.

Get some facts and try again.”

“(CBS) While diplomatic maneuvering continues over Turkish bases and a new United Nations resolution, inside Iraq, U.N. arms inspectors are privately complaining about the quality of U.S. intelligence and accusing the United States of sending them on wild-goose chases.

CBS News Correspondent Mark Phillips reports the U.N. has been taking a precise inventory of Iraq's al-Samoud 2 missile arsenal, determining how many there are and where they are.

Discovering that the al-Samoud 2 has been flying too far in tests has been one of the inspectors' major successes. But the missile has only been exceeding its 93-mile limit by about 15 miles and that, the Iraqis say, is because it isn't yet loaded down with its guidance system. The al-Samoud 2 is not the 800-mile-plus range missile that Secretary of State Colin Powell insists Iraq is developing.

In fact, the U.S. claim that Iraq is developing missiles that could hit its neighbors – or U.S. troops in the region, or even Israel – is just one of the claims coming from Washington that inspectors here are finding increasingly unbelievable. The inspectors have become so frustrated trying to chase down unspecific or ambiguous U.S. leads that they've begun to express that anger privately in no uncertain terms.

U.N. sources have told CBS News that American tips have lead to one dead end after another.


Example: satellite photographs purporting to show new research buildings at Iraqi nuclear sites. When the U.N. went into the new buildings they found "nothing."


Example: Saddam's presidential palaces, where the inspectors went with specific coordinates supplied by the U.S. on where to look for incriminating evidence. Again, they found "nothing."


Example: Interviews with scientists about the aluminum tubes the U.S. says Iraq has imported for enriching uranium, but which the Iraqis say are for making rockets. Given the size and specification of the tubes, the U.N. calls the "Iraqi alibi air tight."

The inspectors do acknowledge, however, that they would not be here at all if not for the threat of U.S. military action.

So frustrated have the inspectors become that one source has referred to the U.S. intelligence they've been getting as "garbage after garbage after garbage." In fact, Phillips says the source used another cruder word.

As international and domestic doubts and opposition to war grow, Secretary of State Colin Powell was dispatched to the United Nations to make the Bush administration's case for pre-emptive war against Iraq. The good soldier's message is likely to carry enormous weight in shaping public opinion. But he failed to make a compelling case.

Powell's multimedia presentation contained many specific allegations but little new information or proof of the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. There was no smoking gun. Instead, nearly all of the evidence was largely circumstantial or speculative. (Indeed, hours before Powell spoke, UN weapons inspections chief Hans Blix denied or discounted four claims central to Powell's indictment.)


Your certainly are a relentless propagandist, bacpac, I'll give you that.”

“I just find it strange that inspite of US intel capabilities we cant seem to find a single WMD. I also find it odd that the administration backed off the issue about thirty seconds after the war started. We will see in the next few months....”

“Haven't you heard Syria has them all...... I also heard that the Laplanders were developing WMDs from snow, weaponising it and delivering it using Santa's Reindeer - Rumsfeld will turn on them next.”

“Al Jazeera is wondering too:
http://english.aljazeera.net”

“Link:
http://english.aljazeera.net”

“They'll also be claims that the Axis of Evil - Santa, The Easter Bunny and the Tooth fairly - were seen chatting and smoking crack with Osama in a Damascus Cafe.

On a serious note I do hope they find something. If they don't it means everyone has been lied to.”

“Oh come on... they claim 'objective and balanced global news coverage and analysis'... just like Faux News.”

“They'll - make that "there will" :o)”

“SHUT THE #&%!$ UP!”

“NO!!!! Our goverment wouldnt lie to us would they?!!!”

“The UN inspectors couldn't find their butt with both hands.”

“Even with all the directions the US gave them”

“Tarpy throws his pacifier out the pram”

“Tarpy- decaff son.

I want to ask an honest question. Do you think the Iraqi people will better off now that Saddam is gone? Do you think it was worth it reguardless of the reasons for going in? And if not, do we stand for freedom only for Americans?”

“Tarpy - that was truly obnoxious.


Bacpac: Have you been watching the news, observing the facts. Alaska exaggerates tremendously - but yes, it has been shown that some (not all) of the evidence the US presented regarding Iraqi WMD were faked. The US says that it didn't fake them - they just happened to come across documents that someone else had phonied up.”

“THIS WHOLE #&%!$ING BOARD IS OBNOXIOUS!”

“No-one's asking you to stay buddy.”

“I want to ask an honest question. Do you think the Iraqi people will better off now that Saddam is gone? Do you think it was worth it reguardless of the reasons for going in? And if not, do we stand for freedom only for Americans?

I think this could have been sold on humanitarian reasons. I've been reading a lot about the plight of the Kurds and it is really heart wrenching. I'm not sure why this angle wasn't used as I think it is part of Wolfowitz's reasoning. To answer your question - I don't really see how they could be worse off than they were - no matter what the future brings.”

“C-YA!”

“I have supported this war effort Nigal, but not for the reasons the administration has listed. I don't appreciate their lies and I think Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowizt have an agenda and present a huge threat to the future. I think, as many have said, that what happens from here on in will decide if they were right or wrong - I will be happy to say the administration did the right thing if they bring a future of international peace, prosperity and security. But I fear, through the methods they have used, that their actions could come back to haunt them.”

“I don't think they want to play that up because it reminds everyone of how the previous Bush administration left the Kurds and the southern Shia twisting in the wind last time out.”

“The whole concept is a radical gamble. If this plays out wonderfully and brings about a safer and more free world I’ll be happy that my worst fears weren’t realized.

I’m also very surprised that the operation was carried out with so few civilian and US military deaths as it was. The UN was estimating 500,000 civilian casualties (including injuries) before the war.”

“I agree somewhat ynami. What we do now is going to be under the microscope. We have a great opportunity here to show the Arab nations we do NOT want to defeat and occupy their countries. We should help Iraq set up a government of Iraqis, by the Iraqis and for the Iraqis. My biggest fear is this will take longer than they see as acceptable. It’s a big job but I think that the people involved have the intelligence and experience to do it the best way.

As I told fly guy, I too have seen the shifting reasons to invade go from “they have nukes”, to “they have WMD”, to “We must set them free”. Should have started with the latter and stuck to it but they pretty much needed to use the 17 violated UN agreements as the catalyst.

There will be bumps in the road but I think it’s going to be exciting to see a free nation being born.”

“"I’m also very surprised that the operation was carried out with so few civilian and US military deaths as it was."

It really is amazing. I heard on one report that more troops died in the first three days of the ground war in GW I than in some two and a half weeks of this one. My stomach still wrenches every time I hear reports of the civies being killed though and I don’t mean to downgrade these deaths but in comparison to past wars like WWII and Nam where carpet bombing of entire cities was the norm this one has been super-surgical.

It was weird as I watched the celebration yesterday and thought, “I wonder what the people who lost family members in accidents must be feeling right now as they watch these people celebrate? It must be too bitter sweet to even stand.”.”

“I'm sorry, did I miss something, is the war over?”

“I hope the Administrations attention span for Iraq is better than it was for Afghanistan. They forgot to put anything in the budget for the rebuilding Bush promised. Congress ended up correcting the oversight and putting in 300 million (prolly still far short of what it would take make things work there).”

“I haven't seen any information about faked documents. I did see arial photos of the Iraqis moving WMD materials from a bunker while the column of UN inspectors passed nearby heading to another bunker.”

“I hope the Administrations attention span for Iraq is better than it was for Afghanistan. They forgot to put anything in the budget for the rebuilding Bush promised. Congress ended up correcting the oversight and putting in 300 million (prolly still far short of what it would take make things work there)."
pedxing
06:00:57 PM
04/10/03

Wrong again. The President included money for rebuilding. Congress added pork. Check the facts.”

“BAGHDAD, Iraq — U.S. Marines may have found weapons-grade plutonium in a massive underground facility discovered beneath Iraq's Al Tuwaitha nuclear complex, an embedded reporter told Fox News Thursday.
Coalition forces are investigating a stash of radioactive material found at the site south of Baghdad, the reporter, Carl Prine of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review, told Fox News. The material was discovered at the complex, which is operated by the Iraqi Atomic Energy Commission and is located south of Baghdad's suburbs. While officials aren't prepared to call the discovery a "smoking gun," two preliminary tests conducted on the material have indicated that it may be weapons-grade plutonium. The discovery of the underground labyrinth of labs and warehouses was unexpected, Fox News has confirmed, and forces in the area are testing a variety of things to best determine the significance of the find. So far, Marine nuclear and intelligence experts have found 14 buildings that have high levels of radiation, Prine reported Thursday. His report noted that some of the tests have found nuclear residue too deadly for human contact.

Go to Fox News for the rest of the story”

“And it was a Fox reporter who filed the last report that turned out to be bogus. I'll wait for independant confirmation from an organization that's fair and balanced.”

“sorry fella but still nothing, nada, zip, zero, goose eggs...

The Chief UN inspector had some interesting observations last night on the telly... He said he felt the reason Iraq never cooperated with the teams wasnt because they had WMD but rather because the CIA had "embedded" operatives in the team and Iraq didnt want them gathering military intelligence on thier installations that could be used against them during an invasion.

A year ago Bush went to Congrees and told them he had PROOF that saddam had WMDs... Isnt lying to Congress a crime? If we are willing to impeach for lying about a B-job what will we do to a Prez that lied about something that was important?”

“It'll be interesting to see what turns up with that "mobile food proccessing lab" the Mariens found.

Hey, bacpac, where's your son stationed at now? How he's doing well wherever it is.”

“Did you see the size of the one Mobile lab that they found. It was pretty small. I thought when they talked about moble labs, they had huge trailers, like a moble retirement park. Double wides. It looked like a ice cream truck.”

“naw, toys R us sells everything you need including microscope under the guise of education.....”

“Do you suppoes they used Iraqi midgets to do the work in that little truck Bigpoppa?

In stead of the Lollypop Guild it could be caller the Serin Guild or Anthrax Guild.”

“Ah yes, pretty music plays as a small truck trolls up and down the neiborhood looking for small children to sell its sarin filled rockets too.... middle iraq :}”

“It's funny how much differently the Baltimore Sun covered this story, compared to Faux News.

Iraqi nuclear site lay at the mercy of looters
Guards left as U.S. forces neared; Marines did not realize site's significance
----------------------------------------------
By Bob Drogin
Special To The Sun
Originally published April 11, 2003

WASHINGTON - Three Iraqi warehouses filled with 2,500 barrels of uranium that could be enriched for nuclear weapons - plus 150 radioactive isotopes that could be used for "dirty bombs" - lay unguarded for several days this week as Iraqi mobs swirled around.

The facility, known as Location C, was Iraq's only internationally sanctioned storage site for nuclear material. It thus was a potential prize for U.S. forces - or for anyone seeking to steal radioactive material for sale to other countries or to terrorists.

Iraqi Republican Guard troops abandoned the site late last week as U.S. forces approached the nearby Tuwaitha nuclear research center south of Baghdad. Looters soon cut Tuwaitha's electric fences and began ransacking homes and offices, hauling off televisions and carpets in stolen luxury cars.

Initial reports indicate that U.S. Marines who entered the complex last weekend did not realize Tuwaitha's significance. Nor did they immediately look for the nuclear warehouses about a mile away.

Marine combat engineers finally secured Location C on Wednesday after a State Department counterterrorism task force warned Central Command of the danger, U.S. officials said.

It was not clear yesterday whether special U.S. weapons teams had reached the site. Officials at the Pentagon and in Qatar said they did not know if anyone had breached the steel doors and removed any of the 500 tons of unrefined uranium and uranium dioxide, 1.8 tons of low-enriched uranium and 150 transportable radioactive devices from Iraqi hospitals and research facilities that were stored at the site.

"The most immediate concern is the radioactive isotopes," said David Albright, a former nuclear weapons inspector in Iraq who now heads the nonprofit Institute for Science and International Security in Washington. "You worry that some idiot will take them and spread them around. We don't need a radiation accident. Or that someone will try to sell them for a dirty bomb. Or that they'll try to sell the uranium on the black market for someone else's nuclear weapons program."

Experts say the security lapse also points to a larger concern: the immediate need to find and protect Iraq's nuclear weapons blueprints, ballistic missile manuals, precursor chemicals for nerve gases, microbe feeder stocks for germ weapons and countless other potentially dangerous materials that could supply terrorists or illegal weapons programs around the world.

"There's a tremendous danger that materials could slip out of the country," warned Rolf Ekeus, who headed United Nations arms inspections teams in Iraq in the 1990s. "It's very important that these sites be taken under control immediately."

Another problem: the 3,000 or so Iraqi scientists, military officers and engineers who provided the intellectual heft, technical expertise and command structure for Saddam Hussein's clandestine weapons production and procurement systems, according to U.N. records. None has yet been interrogated.

Experts warn that Iraq's weapons designers may flee the country and offer their services to other rogue regimes before they can be rounded up. Most of the scientists and engineers at Tuwaitha disappeared.

"There could be a brain drain like we saw after the collapse of the Soviet Union," said Jonathan Tucker, a former U.N. inspector now at the U.S. Institute for Peace in Washington. "These are people with valuable technical know-how. Presumably they're now unemployed. They might be tempted to work for other countries or for al-Qaida."”

“Wouldn't that be the supreme irony and self-fulfillng prophecy. wow.”

“This could be a possibility Violin but you can't just let the neigborhood bully keep running around for fear of what his friends might do. I'm amazed by those who say that we shouldn't have gone in because it just creates 1,000 more bin luadens. That's just kooky talk!”

“Bacpac you remind me of Sarge Schultz on Hogans Heroes "I saw nothing! I zaw nutttink!"”

“Jeeze Savage, if you believe Fox News, everytime they find a barrel of shaving cream they're SURE it's WMD.

The majority of the American public is going to do exactly as I predicted: get into a hysteria over the purported WMD that Bushie said Saddam had in order to justify an pre-emptive invasion of a soverign country and when no WMD are found, go to the whole, "See, aren't those people better off anyway?" I really hope they find some WMD. In fact, I hope they find Saddam because I don't if the US can stand to let another "bad guy" get away. I can see it now, "Well, we found a finger tip and DNA proof shows it's Saddam's. He must be dead."

Sheeyat, the Iraqi underclass looted all their museums, burned their government buildings to the ground and are raising total hell. It really is a great jumping off point for "Democracy!"”