Peace Marchers

“So tell me again Opie, why did we wage war? To liberate folks from a tyrant or to eliminate weapons of mass destruction?

Polls. I hate polls. I for one don't support the war, but respect the sacrifices/efforts/heroism of the troops. I also respect people who feel strongly enough about a cause to be seen and heard, and not just go along with the "powers-that-be." So yes, you could put me down as being in support of our troops, but please don't infer that I approve of the US and her cronies attacking a sovereign nation.

BTW, who gets to decide who the "allies" (the good guys) are?”

“Germany and Japan were sovereign nations too.”

“One waged war across Europe, the other bombed Pearl Harbor.”

“yeah, but both Germany and Japan attacked first. I think that is the difference here. There was not an aggresive action that directly prompted this war - it was the threat of something that could happen in the future. That's breaking new ground for the US and a fairly dangerous precident if other countries try and use it as a reason - Indai invading Pakistan for example.
While I'm pleased to see liberated Iraqis on the streets, I do have concerns about what this means for the future. No-one ever doubted the US would win, it's what happens from here that's important.”

““why did we wage war? To liberate folks from a tyrant or to eliminate weapons of mass destruction?”

Even though I support our actions I am not so blind as to see the transparency of how we went from rooting out Iraq’s nukes program down to simply liberating them. I may be thick but I ain’t stupid. LOL! At the same time we can’t disregard the fact that we are enforcing the 17 some UN resolutions that Iraq agreed to and defied. This issue is where we should have planted our flag from day 1. And as much as I hate the lame “Hitler/Saddam” comparisons, we also have to remember that Germany was a sovereign nation too.

I also may not agree with the protesters and the tactics of some of them I would never say they didn’t support our troops and hope for their safety. I’m sure they are just as concerned as the staunchest war supporters. I don’t think I’d even go as far as to call them unAmerican.”

“Iraq invaded Iran. Iraq invaded Kuwait. Iraq was still technically at war because they violated the terms of the cease fire of 91.”

“Whoo-hoo, I think Nigal and I have found common ground!”

“It took you guys long enough to kiss and make up.”

“I seem to remember things a little different than I have read in my children's history books. Their books say something along the lines of "peaceful, law abiding protesters". I seem to remember my history books saying something about them having torched a building or two, tossing a few bricks at the guards, and one incident leading to another that caused a lot of regret on both sides. I gotta wonder, is this revisionist hostory, or have I lost it all.”

“There was no violence at Kent State until the National Guard opened fire.

I was a senior in high school at the time.

Some of the kids were repeating stupid rumors about the students firing first and other bull$h!t.......none of it true.

There are just some people, then as now, who believe that any and all dissent must be crushed......kinda like the Chinese government does.”

“Tom do you ever read what you write?”

“"Nigal haven't you learned that is OK to break the law for the greater good?"
bacpac
12:27:01 PM
04/08/03
That's the only accurate thing I think I've ever heard you say bacpac :o)”

“On a lighter note I just had someone come up to me outside metro and tell me "we have to stop this war now." I didn't have the heart to tell him.”

“Civil disobedience is an alien concept to some.”

“I was in 4th grade, but did pay attention and have read about this many times, including just 2 minutes ago on-line.

Violence? The ROTC building was burned down:possibly by students , possibly by government agents.
Students did throw rocks and bottles at troops.
None of that justifies the killing of students....one walking to class, another an ROTC student.
Why would the NG purposely kill (aka murder) an ROTC student? Come on, The Chinese Government analogy is a bit much.
Gov Rhodes inflamed the situation by calling the protesters "nazis and brown shirts"
Wasn't the NG responsible punished?
This isn't China.....this war isn't Vietnam.

What about the massacre at JAckson State the next week?”

“bacpac, wu-di-do, mispell something?”

“Add: The NG was walking away at the time then many wheeled and fired. The closest student was 60 yards away. The NG had been firing tear gas, and students threw some of the cannisters back.

One odd detail: there was an FBI informant/operative with a gun and it was shown that the gun had been fired since its last cleaning, but it was not clear when it had been fired. I doubt he had anything to do with what happened, but it could fuel paranoia. After all, J. Edgar Hoover said the students got what thye had coming.”

“[BTW, they really need to scrape Hoover's name off the FBI building.]”

“Amen Tilt!


Dissent will not be tolerated!”

“As grotesque as this sounds, I think there ARE some people who would drive a tank into a crowd of protestors based on some of the things I've heard people say in the last few months. It's UNBELIEVABLE some of the things people say. I wonder what the hell planet I've landed on. It sure as HELL isn't the one I grew up on, is it?”

“Yeah, I know what you're talking about Tilt. When I was growing up I used to be able to ride my bicycle from one end of town to the other with my BB gun in hand. I'd go over to my buddy's house and we'd go plinking. Now days that kind of act would be considered criminal.”

“You'd get a plastic bullet in the side of the head for that now Ultra :o)”

“Wrong amendment.”

“I guess my kids will have to practice "civil disobedience".”

“See I get confused - if it's wrong to break the law in any circumstances, what's the point of being able to own a firearm to defend the constitution, when actually using guns to stop any form of Government tyranny would be breaking the law? - Can someone help me with this?”

“They call them reactionaries”

“How about a little peaceful marching through the mountains?
No rubber bullets, no tear gas (the farts may evoke tears), no awful repression of dissent by the MAN.
I'm done here and itching for spring break. 3 more days!”

“Oh no...here we go with the evil gun stuff.”

“I love stirring the pot. 8)”

“yeah, ok, I guess I should have stuck to the subject ;o)”

“Government tyranny is not in the constitution and therefore is not to be defended.”

“If you're going to go off in that direction, Ynami, you're going to have to Start Another Gun Thread (then we'll have to kill you).”

“Couldn't come up with an answer for that one then Ultra ;o)”

“ok ok, no more guns...I mean no more talk about guns”

“BB's......

Hey, where the hell is BB?”

“Meanwhile....back to dreamin ' about backpacking with a beautiful companion. Let those handwringers don their cute 60s outfits and fight the power.....guard against the facist onslaught.”

“ynami

are you near DC? where do you backpack?”

“yeah, I'm in DC, I've done a few short day hikes in the SNP, I'm new to this continent though so I'm only just finding my way around.”

“Cute '60s outfits?

Skinny neckties and boo-font hair-doos?”

“Everything old is new again....”

“Having had a chance to do some reading now I want to open up by saying that Tom was right about the bullets. There seems to still be those who say the details were on both sides. Here is a good link I found that seems to clear up some of the misinformation.

http://dept.kent.edu/sociology/lewis/lewihen.htm”

“Nigal --


I am going to assume a lion's share of the credit (a little "eating the xians" humour there) . . .for your conversion from a follower of Christ to one who is simply waiting for the messiah.

I will assume that my haranguing you about the essential evil, immorality and fiction of the christian religion some . . .what was it . . .5 years six years . . .ago on this forum was what planted the seeds of your partial awakening (I say partial becuase it seems as though you are foolish enough to still believe in some form of higher power (beside me that is).



Oh TILT!!!!!!


It wasn't a "tank" through a crowd of protesters . . .it was a cement truck.

"i don't know what happpened officer . . .I popped the clutch, the acelerator got stuck and the next thing you know I had three abortion protesters stuck in my radiator grill"”

“Of course . . .I meant to insult the Christians and Nigal on the "Nigal Sux" thread


And run over protesters in my cement truck on THIS thread




Sorry for any confusion folks.

Carrion.


Carrion.




Get it???





Carry on.”

“I see a difference between protestors of today and yesterday. Back in Kings day and earlier when you marched you understood that you might die or get beat about the head and neck with a nightstick for a spell, but it was worth it.

Now protestors act shocked when the police come and crack some skulls.

Not saying I support the whoppin of protestors but I cant help but notice a huge difference.”

“I was channel surfing a week or two ago and it seems that the protestors DO expect violence to occur (whether they instigate it or not). They expect it and plan for it.

Have you ever heard of 'street medics'? There was some videotape on C-SPAN of some protestors planning a demonstration, and they were talking about where people with some knowledge of First Aid and supplies would be located.”

“Oh No....not that. Those are the ugly 60's outfits.”

“Those were a cement trucks in Tiananmen Square?



PD Wipes Out Protester Database

N.Y. Civil Liberties Union Questioned Practice

By Melanie Lefkowitz and Leonard Levitt
Staff Writer

April 10, 2003, 9:18 PM EDT

Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said Thursday he had ordered an end to the recent department practice of questioning arrested anti-war protesters about prior political activity.

Kelly said at a news conference that he had ended the practice after he learned that "concerns" had been raised about it. Kelly did not identify who expressed the concerns, but at a later press conference, the New York Civil Liberties Union said it had sent a letter to him on Tuesday documenting the practice.

Donna Lieberman, the Civil Liberties Union executive director, said that after questioning the arrested demonstrators about their political ties, detectives filed the information on a form with a federal seal and entered it into a database.

In addition, she said, the protesters had been denied the right to counsel after they had been arrested.

Joel Kupferman, a lawyer representing the National Lawyers Guild, said that demonstrators have told him that while in custody at One Police Plaza they were asked the following questions by detectives:

"What is your view of Israel? What is your view of Palestine? What do you think of 9/11? And where were you during 9/11?"

Lieberman said, referring to such questioning: "We don't know who in the Police Department is responsible. The Police Department has to find out who is responsible. It is incompatible with democratic rights."

Kelly said the practice of questioning protesters about their political activity while in custody had begun at the massive Feb. 15 anti-war demonstration in midtown. Before that rally, police denied marchers a parade permit to march past the United Nations, citing national security safety concerns. The decision was upheld by a federal judge.

Kelly described the start of this practice as "a good-faith effort on the part of some people in the department to help us determine what resources are needed to police certain demonstrations in the future."

He said the initiators were lower-ranking members of the department and that neither he nor David Cohen, deputy commissioner for intelligence, had known about it.

"These types of things can happen in a big organization," Kelly said.

He said he ordered the practice abandoned because "we didn't think it was particularly necessary."

Protesters did not have their constitutional rights violated because they were questioned during the arrest process, added the commissioner.”

“Protestors of the old days carry pitchforks, spades, axes and other farm implements.

Nowadays they carry spray cans, molitov cocktails, slingshots and facemasks to fend off pepper spray.”

“If you don't protest when you feel abject to current events you are a TTer.”

“All men are psychologically unable to bear. The basic need of any possibility of wrongdoing -- and must never commit the errors of warlordism. It is a powerful aphrodisiac. We cannot really learn anything until we rid ourselves of complacency. The discouraging fact is that copulation is inherently sinful. Certainly the game is rigged.”