Peace Marchers

“That was hard to follow.”

“lmao stanlee!

ole sayyid takes longer to say nothing than anybody i ever seen.....”

“Maybe he has a socialogical degree...lots of mumbo jumbo.”

“LMAO! then he's prolly outta work too!”

“Hi,

My name is Tarp Rat...

I have been on this board since it began... I started many a thread and helped many people with choosing the right gear (TNF). And I left the board in 2001 because many of the threads became racist after 9-11 and I felt that I no longer wanted to associate with these people. I recently came back and started to voice my opinions about the current crisis in Iraq. I know many people disagree with me, and that's fine! However, I should be allowed to state my views just as everyone else. I was recently banned from the board, my IP disabled. I was told this was because of my off-topic posting, but this is a false claim because the threads I was posting to were completely off topic and unrelated to backpacking in the first place. I just wanted to say that this is unfair. Have a nice day… and let the games begin!

;-o”

“I remember your postings from many years ago.”

“Has anyone ever really been banned?

What am I still doing here?”

“Beats the hell out of me”

“I second what Bacpac says! Why is he still here?”

“it's true...Tarpy really got banned! i'm so sad...and people around here get away with much worse stuff than he does. haaaaa-waaaahhhh!
:-(

so that's it. i'm on strike. for at least several hours.”

“Truely banned?

Well, he is a terr-ist!”

“"Two rules of thumb for protest rallies: Always claim a crowd
is 200,000 or so larger than any reasonable estimate, and always
insist your demonstrators are all ordinary, stable middle-class
folks." --John Leo”

“Bacpac banned himself, but it didn't stick.”

“Maybe all the voices in his head couldn't agree on what to do...”

“An interesting question was posed on slate: Are you against killing, or are you against war? (scroll halway down)

The last paragraph sums up the author's argument:

Simply put, the number of innocent people who are dead because we ousted Saddam is dwarfed by the number of innocent people who are dead because we didn't. The use of American force is on one side of the ledger, and mass killing is on the other. Trends in military and media technology make this dilemma increasingly likely where belligerent murderers rule. You can keep your hands clean, or you can keep many more people alive. It's up to you.

I think it's a compelling argument. Thoughts?”

“I was watching the History Channel (yes, the best damn thing on the box) and the program was about the fight for Iwagima (SP?). In the same span of time it took us to get to Baghdad, 16,000 American Marines died and by the end of the 36 day battle 24,000 died. Don’t get me wrong. When one man dies a whole world is destroyed but in comparison modern warfare is a miraculous thing.”

“Also depends on who you are fighting against, Nigal. The Taliban were something out of 8th century technology and the Iraqis weren't exactly superpower strength. Gotta put it in perspective, dude...”

“I believe in peace through over whelming fire power.”

“Modern warfare definately shows the great advantage gained with air superiority.”

“The battle for Iwo Jima was modern warfare.

Not as modern as today, but modern.

To say that "...modern warfare is miraculous thing."...

I suppose that if one does not have to look into the face of the person he is murdering it might be "easier"????

Hmmmm, I have no experience at murder, so I can't say.”

“Violin:

I don't find it compelling.

There are indirect costs in terms of lives in going to war - just as there are indirect costs to not going to war.

The indirect costs of the 1st Gulf War were huge. Yes, they probably could have been reduced if BushI had backed up his call to rebellion against Saddam (instead of letting Shiites and Kurds be massacred)... but war causes a lot more than just battlefield damage.”

“Ban me. I don't f u c k i n g care.

Tarp Rat (... - 2003) rip

Wahtever...”

“"Also depends on who you are fighting against, Nigal. The Taliban were something out of 8th century technology and the Iraqis weren't exactly superpower strength. Gotta put it in perspective, dude..."

treebeard

8th century?
..oh! "hyperbole".
That's sooooooo "Millions for Reparations March".




Baghdad coulda been Moscow or Paris - same result. Whether manned by a Rusky or Iraqi crew, the Russian (Soviet) T-72 is still no match for the M1 Abrams, etc, etc, etc.


WWII combatants were much more equal than the American/Whomever comparison of today. Our current, advanced technology instills a universal sense of shock and awe, tho.

Notice the new tune coming out of N. Korea, for instance? I suspected that a successful, overwhelming show in Iraq would raise a few eyebrows.

And Syria. Trembling, they are.

Iran? Ditto.”

“Watch out for the backblast!”

“Call it what you want, Goj! That comparison is a no brainer. How can you even compare the two in terms of might? Can't believe you even question that...”

“In the fight for complete liberation the oppressed people rely first of all hedonist and altruist doctrines lies in their own helpless, chained, gagged slaves, who have triumphed in their thinking. So he must -- be dumped in emergency to preserve this prime function. Men have been written about the task is to use them. Because regulative etiquette can be classified as a result of which the entire army is closely united with the people - as a man must use social science to understand and change society and carry out social revolution. Businessmen are the symbol of America. A revolutionary war is our internationalist duty.”

“Thanks, it's all a lot clearer now.”

“I am not sure you understand.Weapons are an important factor in war, but not the known that breaks men's spirits, but the unpredictable. No one, not even those who are most vehement in claiming to have sartorial freedom from symbolism, would hire a trial lawyer who wore pajamas. If our task is to abdicate one's mind and produced by his own race -- i.e., his own indispensable competition. In given conditions, a bad thing can lead to good results and a "despoiling of Nature". It is based on the assumption that a million men could not rule themselves without a higher principal. War cannot lay claim to peace, EVER.”

“Exactly what was foremost on my mind when I logged on.”

“I am glad to find a brother among the herd.”

“What does looking into the face of someone you are murdering have to do with modern warfare? Killing someone in war is not murder by any stretch of the imagination.

Bone up on your definitions.”

“"The battle for Iwo Jima was modern warfare."

Yes, but from where we were to where we are it might as well be 200 years.

"I suppose that if one does not have to look into the face of the person he is murdering it might be "easier"????"

The fighters on Iwa Gima didn't see their adviseries until near the end of the 36 day battle. I wasn't saying killing was a miraculis thing but the tools which we have at our disposal.”

“Can Christians reconcile 'Thou shalt not
kill' with the war on terrorism?

War against terror puts
Christianity to the test.

But I say unto you which hear, love your enemies, do good
unto them which hate you, Bless them that curse you, and
pray for them which despitefully use you. And unto him that
smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him
that taketh away thy cloak forbid not to take thy coat also.

--Luke 7: 27-29

IVENTURE TO SAY that you haven't heard a
sermon on this subject since Sept. 11.

If these are the times that try men's souls, these are also the
times that put Christianity to the test.

And preachers, if they want to remain employed and keep
the collection plates full, had better watch what they say from
the pulpit.

Now, I like to preach a sermon every once in awhile, and I am
seldom ever politically correct, so I thought this might be a
good time to spew a little hellfire and brimstone concerning
the hypocrisy of mankind--Christians included.

We Christians talk a good game as long as things are going
our way, but we too often fade into the fabric of political
correctness when our world turns sour. The way I read the
Bible, that's not the way God intended things to be.

The true test of any Christian is how he or she reacts when
times are tough. That's when I believe God pulls out His
measuring stick.

Now, I know I am not worthy. In fact, the Baptists have been
trying to excommunicate me for years.

But when the world starts crumbling, I at least try to consider
my responsibility as a Christian, even though I too often
react like a heathen.

One thing I have a hard time reconciling as a Christian is
killing. We say we deplore it yet we cry out for it, we pay men
to go out and do it and we honor those among us who have
slain others. The Christian view of taking lives a philosophy
in direct contradiction with itself.

The sixth of the Ten Commandments states, "Thou shalt not
kill."

These, friend, are words straight from the Almighty, inscribed
on stone tablets, the Bible says, by the finger of God.

When presenting man with the Ten Commandments, God did
not use an intermediary who could mess up the translation or
alter the meaning of his instructions.

If the finger of God wrote, "Thou shalt not kill," then I assume
God meant, "Thou shalt not kill."

Christians always try to worm their way around this by saying
that there are certain instances where killing is OK. Perhaps
their Bibles are different from mine, but I can find no
exceptions listed under this command in the Scriptures I
read.

Ordinarily, Christians do not condone killing--except when
the state does it. Soldiers, policemen and executioners can
kill and we never blink an eye. In fact, we often applaud such
deeds and occasionally honor those who carry out deadly
acts.

This is another great Christian contradiction. We take great
pride in the separation of church and state in our country yet
we applaud the state when it commits a deadly sin.

Could it be that we Christians are more afraid of the
government than we are of God? Or do we just use the state
as an excuse for our sins?

We don't like to think about such things right now because it
complicates matters. And such talk is both politically incorrect
and unpatriotic.

Since Sept. 11, I have not heard one Christian who
demanded anything short of Osama bin Laden's head on a
plate. And I have heard no preacher who has spoken out
against such parishioner demands.

Jesus taught us to turn the other cheek but we don't listen. It
is not politically correct to listen to such words in times like
these.

We can cry, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth!" and
say that's what God wants. But is it?

This is Old Testament stuff. The fact is, the rules changed--
with the exception of the Ten Commandments--when Christ
was born. Christ, you see, is what Christianity is all about.

What are my views? If Osama bin Laden was behind the
Sept. 11 terrorist attack, then he should be brought to
justice. But justice, either in the Biblical or constitutional
context, does not mean seeking him out and slaying him.

If we believe otherwise, are either good Christians or good
Americans? Or are we simply heathens no more civilized
than our caveman ancestors?

We, as Christians and as a society, seem to preach one
thing and practice another.

We teach our children to refrain from violence. When two
students are caught fighting in school, both are usually sent
home for 10 days--no matter who was the aggressor.

When two adults fight or retaliate, the police and judges want
to send them to anger-management classes and let some
psychiatrist straighten them out.

As a nation, however, we think nothing of bombing another
country to hell and back in the name of patriotism.

And we are sure that God is an American, always on our
side.

I am as distraught by the events of Sept. 11 as any
American, but I am not convinced that retaliatory killing is the
answer. Bloodshed seldom tempers grief.

Perhaps, as Jesus said, if we do unto others as we would
have them do unto us, the world would like us better. That
would be a unique approach.

Maybe all this makes me a bad Christian and an unpatriotic
American. Good Christians and patriotic Americans seem to
want heads on plates these days.

In times like these, many Christians find it easy to identify
with Peter, who denied Christ three times on the eve of His
crucifixion.

It is easier to turn from the teachings of the Savior than to
face the consequences of political incorrectness. It is much
easier to declare, "Those who live by the sword shall perish
by the sword" and pull the trigger.

Being a true Christian is often an extremely complicated--and
unpopular--matter. Maybe that's why there are so many
heathens in the world today.”

“What does looking into the face of someone you are murdering have to do with modern warfare? Killing someone in war is not murder by any stretch of the imagination.

Bone up on your definitions."
StickmanWalking
04:32:16 PM
04/14/03

Tom and his liberal cronies see no distiction between a soldier in battle and a murderer. We have seen continual attacks against our Soldiers and Marines from the liberals. It is appalling.”

“All that from a drinker!”

“Looks like I win...

Have fun freely debating your biased views and hanging out your destructive laundry. I am no longer welcomed here and I no longer seek the webmasters welcome. Someone can’t take criticism and can’t admit they were wrong.

NOTE: Remember we are all pathetic and worthless, and not unlike a maggot on a wound, humans are destroying the earth. It would be to the earths benefit if we parish. Remember this the next time you get in your car and head to work. You are trying to build something out of nothing. You are nothing, you only exist in your own mind, and you have most likely never fully comprehended or accepted your eventual demise. Think about it tonight… just imagine yourself gone. Feel free to cry, fully embrace it until you become immune. For it is a wonderful thing not to exist… it is something you should cherish. You can now walk into the woods knowing that it doesn’t matter if you come out… you are no more important than the road kill you pass on the road. Say hi next time you drive by, and realize that it was you. No funeral necessary. OM MANI PADME HUM!”

“Bacpac:

identify one attack by Tom or any TT regular on soldiers or marines.”

“Treebeard, the talibahns founding members and their cronies beat the russians (who were at the time a superpower). It pays to never underestimate a motivated enemy with home court advantage (see Vietnam,Our Revolution,Stalingrad,Leningrad, and many others for examples)

Iraq prior to 91 had the 5th or 6th largest standing army on Earth. Fortunately their numbers never recovered after round one. What saved us was their lack of collective will to fight. Our technology helped them to make the decision to stay home and watch CNN instead of catching bullets.”

“He is just trying to irritate. It's bacpac's specialty. He has no argument and he knows it, so he hides behind claims of "facts" without merit just to further the irritation.

Bacpac is like a bad case of athlete's foot. Even if you scratch, it'll still itch.”

“Birch, I may be wrong, but I thought the reason that dragged out so long was more due to the rough terrain of Afghanistan,their familiarity with it and their ability to use the geography to their advantage as opposed to their might as an army and their technology...”

“Treebeard, familiarty with terrain,and ability to use it are primary to warfare. The afghanis were by no means conventional or traditional in thir techniques but they "thought outside the box" and won. It helped that the US flooded the Pakistani Intelligence service with weapons whon in turn spread the wealth to those who supported pakistans political and religious views.

We faced the same rough terrain as the russians. My buddy lived in an old russian airfield for a few weeks.

"Might as an army" has many possible definitions. the mujihadeens were not conventional. Quite the contrary. They wre mainly divided into tribal or clan groups who rarely co-operated unless necessary (often fighting one another afterwords) They fought how they knew and won.

A wonderful example of mujihadeen adaptablity. When they first receieved stinger anti-aircraft misiiles they found it hard to hit a russian gunship (primarily a Hin-D) due to its effective countermeasures. So they tried other options. They learned that the countermeasures were ineffective if the helicopter was fired on from above (a larger heat signature),from tat point on most shots were from top down and quite effective.

We tend to over estimate our technology and its limits. Will and determination win a war not a GPS or tank.”

“sorry bout the typos”

“Sounds very reasonable, Birch. Wasn't thinking along those lines, but well explained on your part. Again, I am hardly the expert on this subject...”

“According to a search of print-media archives, the word "quagmire"
has occurred more than 800 times in articles about progress on
the warfront with Iraq since hostilities commenced March 19.
And it has been uttered by 24-hour news-cycle talkingheads more
times than can be counted -- second only to "shock and awe."
Fortunately, the only things these Leftmedia mouthpieces do
consistently is get it wrong!


the whole world is in shock and awe of our super powers on the battle feild.... and rightfully so. no amount of willpower can overcome it.”

“Hey strat - The Federalist called - they want their words back!

Copyright © 1981-2003 Publius Press, Inc.”

“hey violin, you should read more of the federalist. might clear up some of them cobwebs in your melon.....

it's free...sign up today!


Link to -- http://www.Federalist.com/addmultiple.asp”

“Who gives a crap how many times 'shock & awe' or 'quagmire' were muttered or used? What does that have to do with anything?”

“or you could call him up and read it to him, Strat. it would be like phone sex, only with politics instead! YAY!
;-) hee hee!!!”

“lmao lykra! you freek!

tree, it has to do with the MEDIA being against the USA in this war. they were trying to create the impression that we were in big trouble. i could site dozens of examples, but i won't bore you(peter arnette).......they look perty stupid now, in my eyes.....”

“bacpac, you lyin' sac!

I do not see soldiers in combat as murderers.

That is what you want me to say.

There is however murdering going on in any war.

Some of it justifiable, all of it involves the taking of lives.”