Peace Marchers

“"I suppose that if one does not have to look into the face of the person he is murdering it might be "easier"????"

Who was the murder you referred to in this post Tom?”

“Sorry, Strat. I haven't viewed the media as left wing in mucho years. As a matter of fact, I think they have been more than kind to Bush. Without their help, he never would have been able to sell this war the way he did, either. The media is part of what you cut and paste from too, my friend...”

“Commie Tommie, here is your direct quote:

"The battle for Iwo Jima was modern warfare. Not as modern as today, but modern. To say that "...modern warfare is miraculous thing."...

I suppose that if one does not have to look into the face of the person he is murdering it might be "easier"????

Hmmmm, I have no experience at murder, so I can't say."

Tom Terrific
4/14/03”

“If it's justified, it's not murder, therefore, the phrase "There is however murdering going on in any war. Some of it justifiable, all of it involves the taking of lives" is flawed. In war, killing an enemy combatant is a legal action.”

“I agree with treebeard strat, you've only got to look at the lack of focus on casualties. I also think the media has to focus on some negative aspects of war, otherwise all you get in a narrow perspective on events. You'd just be taking the words of military spokesman, which while certainly not lies, they often try to cover the bad and promote the good, as they are bound to do.
And Savage, labelling Tom a Commie just makes everything else you say unimportant.”

“yomamayomama, I didn't say anything, just reposted Commie Tommie's post about our soldiers being murderers.”

“I looked through some of old posts of 'liberal' comments concerning our military. Some of the comments I initially felt were the most damning were actually just personal attacks against me so it is all good.

I appologize for lumping you in with Tom T.”

“Some of its justifiable, Savage.

All of its murder.

Big kiss for bacpac!”

“I feel like a broken record. Murder is an unjustified killing.
Therefore, claiming a murder is justified is self-contradictory. Before you argue an issue, you have to know the definitions.
Basic rule of formal debate, obviously of no relevance in this forum.”

“By Reggie Rivers, Denver Post

John Fleming of Alamosa learned recently that if you want to oppose the war in Iraq - or any other conflict, for that matter - you can't use the American flag to make your case.

Fleming, a self-proclaimed pacifist, owns a store called The Roost that sells books and music on State Street in Alamosa. He put an upside-down American flag in his store window the day bombing started in Iraq.

"I support the troops," Fleming said in an interview yesterday, "just not the political leaders who put them in harm's way." According to the Boy Scout manual, an upside-down flag communicates distress, and Fleming put up the display because he believes the war in Iraq is a sign that our country is in distress.



Military veterans James Damewood, Chuck Cooper and Ernie Roybal didn't see the distinction between criticism of the war and criticism of the troops. They complained to the police that the upside-down flag was disrespectful, and Fleming said he was in "physical shock" when Police Chief Ron Lindsey came to the store and told him he had to remove the flag.

Fleming argued that he had a First Amendment right to make a statement in his front window, but the chief told him he could not legally have an upside-down flag on public display.

"Either the chief was ignorant of the law, which is no defense," Fleming said, "or he purposely twisted the law to silence me. In either case, I wish he would have upheld the Constitution of the United States."

Fleming said he was intimidated by the threat of being arrested, "and the chief had a gun on his hip, and he had two guys with him who had guns," so he took down the flag.

Later, he called the ACLU for advice.

As the debate about his flag heated up, so did the intensity of the threats. Someone threw a dead coyote against the front door of Fleming's store, which he believed was evidence of domestic terrorism, but the police insisted it was just an incident of harassment.

In either case, Fleming got the message.

The ACLU threatened to sue on his behalf, and the Alamosa city manager and city attorney both agreed that the police chief was wrong. They affirmed Fleming's right to display an upside-down flag in his window if he wished. However, the effects of the intimidation may have more staying power than the ruling in his favor.

At the moment, Fleming's front window is decorated with a picture of the Earth as seen from outer space, a peace symbol and, notably, a sign supporting U.S. troops. He doesn't plan to put his flag back up.

Fleming's case illustrates the difficulty of protesting a war in a nation with such hawkish tendencies. War supporters don't fight back with words, they enlist law-enforcement officers, other government officials and corporations to silence dissent.

If you criticize the Bush administration, Congress or U.S. foreign policy, you're being unsupportive of the troops and the police may visit you.

If you protest through diplomatic channels - as France, Germany and Russia have done - you're cowardly and disloyal, and you'll be punished later when contracts are awarded in the rebuilding of Iraq.

If you go on Iraqi TV and criticize the war, as NBC's Peter Arnett did, you'll lose your job. If you make disparaging comments about U.S. aggression during a music concert, as the Dixie Chicks did, you'll be the target of a widespread corporate boycott.

All of this makes Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's recent comments extremely interesting. On NPR this week, Rumsfeld responded to reports that Iraqi citizens were protesting the interim government. He said that we shouldn't be surprised or dismayed that people in Iraq were protesting. Instead, we should celebrate because protests are a sign that they live in a free society.

Talk about irony.

Copyright 2003 The Denver Post”

“The guy is a traitor...next thing he'll do is burn the flag...claiming it's his right to express himself freely.”

“We need a constitutional amendment allowing for the immediate lynching of traitorous scum like this!”

“Quite obviously we need more police chiefs like Ron Lindsey.

I never thought someone could make a career out of whining and complaining, but the Democrats have developed a political platform with it.

I am sure it will serve them well in the next election.”

“Are we being lectured on how to be Good Americans by a Canadian?

Just curious.”

“Canadian? Is there a story here?”

“Your story is the same one over and over. We got cheated.”

“Wow, bacpac, I almost get the feeling you're an old, bitter alcoholic. Nah, couldn't be.”

“Budda Bing.

Thanks for the rim shot phaedrus.

I see you rationalize all of your arguments with baseless accusations.”

“We were arguing? I thought we were just bashing each other. Sorry about that. What was the argument again?”

“So,please make this clear for me Bacpac. You are saying that the store owner in Alamosa did not have the right to free speech?”

“I never said that. The store owners speech was not the issue. He is free to say what he wants.”

“Well the guy does have a right to hang the flag upside down, sideways, backwards or even burn it. Even though I totally disagree with that as so much as it disgusts me, this is the US and he has that right.... just as a guy up here in the Pacific Northwest has the right to burn peace flags, which I think is a funny and good idea, at rallys to show his disgust at the actions of the war protestors who burn the flags.”

“Phaedrus, If I recall stanlee is Canadian.

The storeowner should grow a set and fly the flag how he feels and stop whinning.

Does everyone have to make a cause outta everything?”

“Yep, Canadian..that I'm.

Actually, I'm pretty disgusted if anyone from any country, hang their flag upside down. That's a sign of disrespect. Hang the logo/symbol of the party, that's running the country upside down if you don't like their policies.

Btw, one of the reasons the Japanese flag just have a red circle on their white flag, is so that their soldiers can't use their flag to surrender (looks the same upside down or right side up).”

“"Btw, one of the reasons the Japanese flag just have a red circle on their white flag, is so that their soldiers can't use their flag to surrender (looks the same upside down or right side up)."
stanlee
12:05:00 PM
04/20/03

Now why didn't France think of that??? :D”

“That's true, the British and French flags looks the same hung either way. Guess they have to use a white flag to surrender.”

“No, hanging a flag upside down is an internationally accepted signal of distress not surrender. Has been for years and years.

It's a symbolic statement, which is consistant with the role of the flag as a symbol.


I don't believe the Japanese ever went into battle under the Nisshoki. You meant This One, I suppose....

”

“HELP! I BEEN HYPMOTIZED!”

“Yep, that's the one.

I like the burning of the Japanese "war flag" in that link...must be protesting against something.”

“What's wrong with this picture?

”

“Yeah, who'da thunk?”

“The page cannot be displayed

The page you are looking for is currently unavailable. The Web site might be experiencing technical difficulties, or you may need to adjust your browser settings.”

“Worked earlier.
It was just a pix of two female protesters holding a "Lesbians against Bush!" sign.”

“I've had troubles in the past posting pics from my albums if I remain logged in and I was sure to log out. I'll tell ya what guys, tt is great and all but I think Matt needs to drag this dinosaure out of the 20th centurey and into the 21st. The other programs out there just make this thing look antiquated.”