The Anti-War Elite

“The fact it's cool and shiek to want freedom for Tibet but not Iraq.”

“It's a very different situation... Tibet is has been invaded, and Iraq has not. I don't see the humor other than someone trying to take a stab at someone who is trying to make a difference and who is taking a stand. What do you stand for Nigal, other than the #&%!$ you're handing out on this board?”

“No it IS the same. Both populations are being oppressed by their “leaders” and both deserve to be free. How long have the “Free Tibet” kids been, going to Free Tibet Concerts to raise money for the Dali Lama to stay in a luxurious lifestyle, sitting around smoking dope and wishing for their freedom? Bumperstickers are nice but a country was never freed with bumperstickers.”

“I think the title of this thread is misleading. Shouldn't it be "The Pro-war Elite'?

In the early 90s after the first Gulf War, Paul Wolfowitz develped a policy for military intervention throughout the Middle East, beginning with Iraq. Others of like mind began quietly promoting the overall ideas of the policy: Richard Perle, Donald Rumsfeld and just a few others.

In fact, when Bush II took office, there were fewer than ten people behind the initiative that ultimately gave rise to the 'Axis of Evil' terminology and the subsequent invasion of Iraq. It would be difficult to be more exclusive than that.

But when the events of 9-11 transpired, the plans were already in Paul Wolfowitz' desk drawer at the Department of Defense.”

“What else was in Paul Wolfowitz's desk drawer? Don't tell me, let me guess. Paper clips? A pen? The secret ingredients for KFC's original recipe?”

“Nigal,

I thought you actually had some sense, but from your last post it is obvious that you are a complete dumbass.

China Invaded Tibet, and tried to destroy a religion and culture. Iraq has only now been invaded, the religion is in place, the culture is the same as it has been, and the people voted to keep SH in power. These situations are very different and your argument makes no sense.

If you want to make a correlation, you could compare Tibet’s plight with that of the Palestinians, people who have been driven off their own land by oppressive countries with large amounts of weaponry.

Further, the Dalai Lama would never smoke dope and does not live in a luxurious lifestyle and sit around wishing for freedom. I respect him very much, and so should you.”

““I thought you actually had some sense, but from your last post it is obvious that you are a complete dumbass.”

Wow, very sensible as well as eloquent Tarpy. It’s obvious we disagree on this (and that’s fine) but to go any further will only result in one of your patented hissy fits of rage and cursing. Let’s cut out all the crap in the middle and let you get your fit over with, ‘kay?

“Further, the Dalai Lama would never smoke dope and does not live in a luxurious lifestyle and sit around wishing for freedom.”

For having all the sense in this discussion you should have realized that I was not talking about the Dali Lama. I was talking about the KIDS here who follow the fashionable freedom trends of the left.”

“"and the people voted to keep SH in power"
Tarpy

Ha, Ha, Ha, Ha, your're killing me with your jokes!”

“You people are talking out your ass... go take some history courses or something so we can have an educated discussion... but then again that probably isn't possible with most of you... so I'm out of here!”

“TARPY

run off if you must, but come on .......they voted for Saddam? No amount of education could help with that.”

“If you would like to argue the validity of the voting, then we can, but the fact is that they did vote.

Please re-read the whole thread before you start to veer off course.”

“If you think that "election" was legite, than I have a few bridges I'd like to sell you, along with a recommendation for a great shrink who specializes in deprogramming the brainwashed.”

“"If you would like to argue the validity of the voting, then we can, but the fact is that they did vote"

Wasn't he the only one on the damn ballet? Yeah, that's freedom.”

“I Repeat!

If you would like to argue the validity of the voting, then we can, but the fact is that they did vote.”

“I REPEAT!

Please re-read the whole thread before you start to veer off course!”

“OK Tarpy, let's discuss. Who did Saddam run against?”

“Remind us who originally brought up the subject of the vote.”

“He ran against no one dude...

"Political power in Iraq is concentrated in a repressive one-party apparatus dominated by Saddam Hussein. The provisional Constitution of 1968 stipulates that the Arab Ba'ath Socialist Party governs Iraq through the Revolutionary Command Council (RCC), which exercises both executive and legislative authority. President Saddam Hussein, who is also Prime Minister, Chairman of the RCC, and Secretary General of the Regional Command of the ABSP, wields decisive power. A "referendum" was held on Saddam's presidency in October; Saddam received 99.96 of the vote for election to the presidency for a term of 7 years. This referendum was not democratic: it included neither secret ballots nor opposing candidates, and voters feared possible reprisal for a negative vote."

Released by the Bureau of Democracy,
Human Rights, and Labor
U.S. Department of State”

“Nigal,

It doesn’t matter if anyone else was on the ballet, because they could still have voted no, or not voted at all.

StickmanWalking,

My point is that Nigal made a stupid correlation between Iraq and Tibet and he was just looking for some way to bash hippies because he doesn’t understand them, or maybe he feels inferior to them. The correlation is incorrect for the above reasons I have mentioned.”

“"It doesn’t matter if anyone else was on the ballet, because they could still have voted no, or not voted at all."

You gotta be kidding me right? That's like running a restaurant that only serves cow balls but because you can choose NOT to eat the balls, they can claim to offer variety. And WE'RE the uneducated, senseless ones?

Bawhawhawhaw! Yeah, I feel inadequate to frickin' hippies. Yeah, that's it. It's the fact that most young people who call themselves hippies do so in an attempt to be a part of some kind of counter culture and think they are being an "individual". In reality they are falling right in line with the rest and they are just as much a sheep as those they feel they are counter to. Many of these types aren't even fully informed of the issues they choose to support or protest.

It all hinges on the fact I pointed out the irony in how these young people call for freedom in one place but not in another. It’s irrelevant what the cause of the lack of freedom is. The fact is that it’s just cooler to support Tibet than Iraq.”

“I guess now the bumper sticker should read "FREE IRAQ"

China/Tibet
USA/ Iraq




j/k
j/k
j/k”

“--Bumper Stickers--
Your Karma just ran over my Dogma


Smile, Jesus loves you--everyone else thinks you're an idiot.

Thank you for pot smoking”

“LOL@Buddha's posts”

“I always thought that Free Tibet stuff was a tad bit ridiculous. Another opportunity for people to profile and feel smug. Being hip is very important.”

“Nigal:

Since when did any Tibetan Freedom group call for the invasion of Tibet?

You have managed to totally confuse ends and means.

The vast majority of anti-war people do want freedom for Iraq and loathe Sadam.

I have never heard of people at Tibet freedom rallies call for the US - or any outside force to invade Tibet.

The irony is only a function of your confusion.”

“Only a madman would suggest that the US take on China in Asia.
They have more people than we have bullets.”

“If you want irony, look at US government policy toward Tibet. The US won't even impose or support the tinniest sanctions over Tibet. They make almost no noise. They do not talk about Tibetan sovreignity or regime change.

The positions you criticize are consistent: I think what Saddam did was terrible. I always opposed the US supporting him (which they continued to do even after he used nerve agents). I also think what China has done in Tibet is terrible. Sanctions, UN initiatives, diplomatic pressure... inspections would have been warranted in both instances - invasion is innappropriate.”

“Only a madman would suggest that the US take on China in Asia."


Flyguy6x
12:26:04 PM
04/11/03


I dunno. We's pretty darned lethal.
I'm certainly not suggesting anything, but I believe we could march against anyone, anywhere, at *almost* any time...”

“"China Invaded Tibet, and tried to destroy a religion and culture. Iraq has only now been invaded, the religion is in place, the culture is the same as it has been, and the people voted to keep SH in power."
--- Tarpy

I think the Sunni Muslins and Kurds might take an opposing stance to that remark Tarpy. Is it better or worse that the folks in Tibet were invaded and oppressed by another country, as opposed to being invaded and oppressed by your own "elected" government.

If we look at this in the context of the Tibetan Situation (being invaded, oppressed, etc.) what makes Iraq different from Serbia, Afghanistan, Nigeria, Somalia, etc., etc.?”

“Saddam's pretend election is largely irrelevant. You'd have had to be ready for martyrdom if you'd vote against Saddam under those conditions.”

“Here's a bit from an e-mail of a Brit acquaintance over here on business. Thought it was interesting...

"I was a little shocked at the TV coverage of the war in US. The
politicians
hardly got a hard time from the journalists. One guy actually stood up
at
one of the press conferences & asked the military officer "Colonel, how
do
view the way the media have been reporting this war"!! Boy that made him
shake in his boots.

You should see some of the stuff being thrown at Blair & co over here! I
think his only friend on earth is GWB. His ministers are spit roasted if
they dare give a radio or TV interview. Quite a difference in style. I
finally had to switch off at one point, when bush was introduced to a
military base in Florida. A grinning Jeb lurking in the array of guests.
The
Officer introducing him did a cheer leader build up & then said "A big
welcome for the man who represents everything good about America".

Was that an accurate portrayal of how he's seen? I got the impression
there
was a lot of anti war feeling but the only coverage of it I saw, was an
item
on how it reduced the number of shoppers in downtown Seattle! I'd be
interested to hear the views from a reliable source such as you guys.

Forgive me if I repeat myself, I can't remember if I told you of a
picture I
saw in YVR of 2 girls holding a banner saying "Bombing for peace is like
#&%!$ing for virginity". It has brought out the inventiveness of the
human
race at least."”

“Rosey: Thats an old one (fvcking/virginity) I remember it from the early 70's.

I liked "toxic war-head found in Washington DC" with a picture of Bush.”

““Since when did any Tibetan Freedom group call for the invasion of Tibet?”

I never said they did. This is your mistake, not mine. I also think it’s funny that they forget that freedom isn’t free and sittin’ round in a circle passing a bong and discussing it wouldn’t free a nation.”

“Nigal - that's my point. If there was any inconsistency here - then the anti-war in Iraq people would have to be calling for war in Tibet. Since they never did - you are imaging the irony.”

“I see what you're say now Ped. I still find it funny though. I wonder if these people would even fight back in order to be free?”

“nigal, no they wouldn't. it's too much trouble. they don't want to hassle with it. just take your kids to soccer practice and pretend everyone in the world is nice.”

“What about Hacky Sack?

Or baseball practice?”

“Hi,

My name is Tarp Rat...

I have been on this board since it began... I started many a thread and helped many people with choosing the right gear (TNF). And I left the board in 2001 because many of the threads became racist after 9-11 and I felt that I no longer wanted to associate with these people. I recently came back and started to voice my opinions about the current crisis in Iraq. I know many people disagree with me, and that's fine! However, I should be allowed to state my views just as everyone else. I was recently banned from the board, my IP disabled. I was told this was because of my off-topic posting, but this is a false claim because the threads I was posting to were completely off topic and unrelated to backpacking in the first place. I just wanted to say that this is unfair. Have a nice day… and let the games begin!

;-o”