Clinton and Media Bias

“dan, your crusade to paint bush a horrible person are falling on deaf ears. the politics of personal destruction went out with clinton.....move on dan, it's over dood. gore lost and bush has earned the trust of the voters much to your chagrin...just like i don't care what clinton inhaled 30 years ago, i don't care that bush got out of the draft as you say. i would have done it too if i could, i rekon.....and it has nothing to do with media bias. this story would run if really had legs. there are countless elitist lefties in the media who would love to have a stuffed bush on their walls.....must be his membership in the skull and bones that keeps them from running the story, huh?”

“BTW, strat, finding six examples of seemingly left-leaning propaganda in the media without context does not constitute proof of a "media leaning"."
Phaedrus

phaed , i could show you so many that you would call me a spamming basterd(tilt's words)....would that convince you? tell me how many to show you in order for you to be convinced, i'll produce them. 50? how bout 100 examples? 500? do i hear 1,000?

tell ya what phaed, show me 6 examples that there is no left leaning bias in the mainstream media and i'll see if my mind changes....”

“Strattypoop, I won't argue that there are left-leaning journalists, just as there are right-leaning journalists. It's silly to paint this obvious fact as a "liberal conspiracy" to control people's minds.

Speaking of Jr High...”

“well that's pretty much the whole point of the thread ain't it? i mean, why didn't you just say that at the start of the thread and be done with it? you silly , silly man......”

“I thought the thread started with Violin posting arclite's article about a specific bias in a specific newspaper?”

“"dan, your crusade to paint bush a horrible person are falling on deaf ears. the politics of personal destruction went out with clinton.....move on dan, it's over dood. gore lost and bush has earned the trust of the voters much to your chagrin...just like i don't care what clinton inhaled 30 years ago, i don't care that bush got out of the draft as you say. i would have done it too if i could, i rekon.....and it has nothing to do with media bias. this story would run if really had legs. there are countless elitist lefties in the media who would love to have a stuffed bush on their walls.....must be his membership in the skull and bones that keeps them from running the story, huh?"

the point is your assertion that the WHOLE media is left leaning. The MEDIA cared that Clinton lied to a recruiter about ROTC so he could accept the Rhodes Scholarship. And no that's not illegal. But the MEDIA quietly swept Bush's DESERTION (which in time of war is punishable BY DEATH), saying that it was a long time ago and it doesn't matter. That is a double-standard. If you chose to ignore this fine, but if you want to see some hypocrisy in action look at the Nov 13th 2000 issue of The New Republic page 10.”

“no don ho, that is not the point. i never ever said anything like that. not once ever. show me a quote where i said that. the point, my point is....there is a huge left bias and no one has been able to disproove it on this thread yet. you say the media 'quietly swept this under the rug'...but i say there is no way in hadies they would do that unless the story wasn't proovable. since you are so upset about it, file a lawsuit against him and proove it. you can't, because there is no way to proove it, anymore than there is a way to proove that ted kennedy killed that girl at chappoquidic, or that reagan cut a deal with iran so the hostages wouldn't be released till the first day he was in office.

there are, thankfully and finally, some right leaners getting airtime on tv now. and no doupt conservatives dominate talk radio. these phenomina have been created by the fact that people are wising up. it drives libs crazy to see their power and influance melting awway.....like sands through the hourglass.....”

“90% of them vote for dems and you say there MAY be SOME who lean SLIGHTLY to the left. omg dood....CUT HIS MIC!

there's your quote... what's the point of debating with a liar who won't even back up his own words. I've given you proof, the New Republic even put a note in an issue about Bush's desertion. But all of the sudden the New Republic is a liberal publication...

as for Iran Contra... I'm sure you don't know or care but in the past few months Whitehouse emails from that time have been made public (PIA). Everything I've said can be backed up, but you tend to not believe anything that contradicts your dogma

Trust me, many letters have been written to the Whitehouse, Cheney is already under investigation. 2 million jobs have been lost since he took office...

I know most of your arguments are based on other words so here's one for you...

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public... Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
-- Teddy Roosevelt, Kansas City Star, May 7, 1918


PS. I think I remember you are a Weinernation fan, look up Roy Masters and see who you are supporting”

“the point is your assertion that the WHOLE media is left leaning.
donman

90% of them vote for dems
stratdewd

ok, let's review our fractions and decimals don....90% would be converted to 9/10ths, which is 1/10th less than 'a whole'. see, if i meant THE WHOLE media, i would have said 100%, not 90%....

where did i lie don? where did i mispeak? where did i call the new republic liberal?


never heard of roy masters but i do like weimerainer dogs....


let's say you're correct don. the WHOLE media ignored that bush is a deserter....how come they ran the story, right before the election , that he had a dwi back 10 years ago? and how come they dogged his daughters for partying? these seem way more trivial than desertion. it makes no scence at all. they said he used cocaine, that he was a playboy, and i even remember them saying that he was a draft dodger. how bout 'gravitas'? remember that? every single newsie out there was saying that he lacked gravitas. their are many examples of these efforts being concerted. this is one example that you keep horboring over and over on don. can you provide another? afterall, phaeddy said my 6 examples proove nothing so how does your one proove something? can you provide others?


and your forgetting actors, fashion models, sports figures, musicians, teachers and professors...”

“"What's next? Will the Bush administration install
a puppet government in Iraq? ...Will American corporations with
uncomfortably close White House and Pentagon connections reap the
spoils of war? Will the United States use this victory as a blank
check to go after every other government we don't like? ...The
'thrill' of war and victory can become addicting."
Barbra
Streisand


"You know it's ironic we're fighting for democracy in Iraq
because we ultimately aren't celebrating democracy here. Because
anybody who has anything to say against the war or against the
president or whatever -- is punished, and that's not democracy --
it's people being intolerant. And you know, everyone's entitled to
their opinion, for or against, and that's what our constitutional
rights are supposed to be, that we all have the freedom to express
ourselves and voice our dissent if we have that." Madonna

"This isn't over.
We're just digging in now. Everybody, celebrities included,
can't suspend their principles because the Iraq war ended.
And thanks to all the Ed Asners and Susan Sarandons out there,
Bush did not have absolute complicity in the war. The whole world
was not going, 'rah rah rah'." Xochitl Johnson


"Tim reflects who we are
and what we try to teach in an undergraduate theater education
at UCLA." --UCLA theater professor Gary Gardner on the choice of
outspoken Leftist anti-war Hollywonk Tim Robbins as "Alumnus of
the Year" at the California university”

“"American policy and strategy is the weakest when it comes
to the Iraqi people. ...The first war plan has failed because
of Iraqi resistance; now they are trying to write another war
plan."

Peter Arnett, in Baghdad reporting for NBC, MSNBC and
National Geographic, granting an interview to regime-controlled
Iraqi TV; all three media outlets fired him


Would Edward R. Murrow,
William Shirer or Walter Cronkite have allowed themselves to be
interviewed on German radio as a 'professional courtesy' during
World War II? No, because they correctly viewed the Nazis as the
enemy of humanity and American forces as the liberators of Europe.”

“Peace is not
patriotic. Peace is subversive, because peace anticipates a very
different world than the one in which we live -- a world where the
U.S. would have no place. ...U.S. patriotism is inseparable from
imperial warfare and white supremacy. U.S. flags are the emblem
of the invading war machine in Iraq today. They are the emblem of
the occupying power. The only true heroes are those who find ways
that help defeat the U.S. military. I personally would like to
see a million Mogadishus. If we really ... [believe] that this
war is criminal ... then we have to believe in the victory of the
Iraqi people and the defeat of the U.S. war machine."

Columbia
University Professor of Anthropology Nicky De Genova addressing
3,000 students and faculty at a "peace" rally .....

OOOH YEAH”

“still waiting for examples from the dark side.......


oh wait, you're still not convinced, shall i get more proof?”

“You missed it the first time, so:

I won't argue that there are left-leaning journalists, just as there are right-leaning journalists. It's silly to paint this obvious fact as a "liberal conspiracy" to control people's minds.”

“i didn't miss iti was just feelin frisky......


buzz killer!”

“Who has a "crusade" to paint GW Bush as a horrible person? I'm just wondering if you want to hold him to the same standard that you hold Bill Clinton to? Did GW go AWOL? If so, doesn't that compromise him as a "war-time president"? What's good for the goose is good for the gander. Some people seem to want to avoid judging GW in the same way they would like to judge Clinton. I suggest everyone do their own investigation into GW and any other candidate, left or right.”

“hey dan.....do a few backspaces and you'll see that i don't care what clinton did back then....in fact if you look closley, you'll see that clinton was pretty 'slick' about getting out of the military himself....look i can accept it dan. it's not that big of a thang. it was vouge. i bet there;s lots of people whom you admire that did it too......”

“Very good, Phaedrus. How long did it take you to solve?

Oooooooo, bad form ynami. You have been unable to answer simple, direct questions. Locating the problem on the Internet does not answer the question. I used a different source than the Internet. Let’s try yet once again:

Robert and Rose went shopping for presents together. They had a total of $264 between them. Rose had $24 more to begin with but she spent twice as much as Robert and ended up with two-thirds as much money as Robert. How much did Robert spend?

Now, ynami, the question is how much time does it take you to solve this? (Hint: the answer does not depend on you finding this question on the Internet.)”

“How odd.”

“Clinton was a mathematician?”

“"How odd."

If you continue to cut and paste other's opinions please cite the source. LOL!”

“Am I here to do your homework for you arclite?”

“And if you're gonna try and set tests, try and make them interesting ;op”

“I like the Clinton bumper sticker on which the "C" is a hammer and sickle.~~~~%^]”

“I'm still curious what this has to do with Clinton?

MENSA tests are prerequisites for having a valid opinion?”

“Ok, I can't let arc get away with this.

Rose spent $96 of the $144 she had.”

“Thus, to answer your question arc, Robert spent $48 of the $120 he had.”

“I did it earlier Chili - though he asked about Robert's spending habits :o) - both the questions he's asked so far are pretty straightforward - I'm actually pretty good at tests like these (though I think it proves little more than being good at certain tests). But I'm certainly not going to get to the stage where I'm jumping through hoops for him.”

“I would hope that those puzzlers are interesting to some. I'm trying to find out some information while amusing myself, Phaedrus. I can’t tell the players without a program. I like asking questions.

Phaedrus, you mention people thinking that it's a “liberal conspiracy.” That’s not what it’s about according to Goldberg.

Talking about the fact that the NYT never saw fit to print a single word about the issue of bias that he raised; Golberg has this to say:

“That, however, did not stop the paper’s heaviest hitters, veteran political analyst R.W. “Johnny” Apple, from sounding off on television.
On CNN’s Reliable Sources, Apple said, “There’s no suggestion here that this man [Goldberg] went to CBS over a period of time and said, “Our stuff is all one-sided, we’ve got to do something about this.’… There’s no suggestion that he has done that.”
It’s fun to watch someone as respected and thoughtful and pompous as Johnny Apple make a complete fool of himself. Being a windbag is one thing, but being a windbag on a worldwide television network is a sight to behold.
First of all, I never said, “our stuff is all one-sided.” That’s not the nature of the bias problem. The problem is that bias pops up too often.”

As I discussed earlier on this thread, Goldberg does not suggest that there is a “vast left-wing conspiracy.” He suggests that most journalists are simply clueless about how they project bias into their choices of what they report and how they report it.

I am willing to accept that hypothesis for now. So far, media-pro ynami hasn’t caused me to change my opinion. That is why I have asked him a couple of questions from an intelligence quotient test. It certainly doesn’t provide absolute proof, but it provides me with more accurate information. It can already be shown that ynami either won’t, or can’t be bothered to anwser simple questions. So far, ynami has shown that he fits the definition of boorish. Maybe he can prove me wrong, but I hypothesize that he is also more than a few fries short of a happy meal.”

“Actually, I thought the math question was relevant to Clinton. Didn't the Clinton Administration propose a National Math Test for all students patterned similar to this ?”

“Arclite - your use of a comparison with a McDonalds product is appropriate, as like your views, they rely on a reasonably slick presentation to sell to the ill-informed - but in the end amount to little more than tasteless fodder, lacking in substance.

And Arclite, I may take an IQ test for something worthwhile - but not for you.

Do you know the definition of boorish? If you intend to insult me then at least use words which actually work with other things you have said. I'll now try to fit in with your usage.

At least you've finally put forward something we can talk about though.

I would say that the basis of his argument is wrong. Most of the professional news organizations require high professional standards from those working for them. I do not count local TV news stations as "professional news organizations" btw.
By working to these standards, reporters aim to get at what actually happened - and in doing eliminate most of the inate bias. Some does still exist, but in the main things balance out.
His whole premise is wrong. If a news paper or news station were to give biased coverage of events, this would happen through its story selection, and the prominence given to certain issues. The average reporter doesn't have much control over this.
From what you've said, isn't he just claiming that most journalists are "liberal" or to use a word you seem to prefer "lefties". A pretty weak argument really.
The only reason his book sold well as there is an audience of people in the United States are ready to believe anything which tells them their views are justified, and why they don't like reading, hearing or seeing certain things in the news which don't fit their perceptions. I suggest these people need to look more closely at themselves than looking at the media as a scapegoat.”

“Good job, chili. I'm glad some folks find those interesting. I had hoped that you might.

How about this one:
3 is to 9 and 18, as 2 is to 8 and _?

You consider the New Republic a liberal publication, Donman? I hadn't read where anyone in the administration has.

Example of media bias:
"In 1981, having worked out of CBS News bureaus in Atlanta and then San Francisco, I was named a national correspondent, which allowed me to cover bigger, more important stories anywhere in the country. … It was in New York that for the first time I started noticing things that made me feel uneasy.
I noticed that we pointedly identified conservatives as conservatives, for example, but for some crazy reason didn’t bother to identify liberals as liberals.
Harry Smith, the cohost (at the time) of CBS This Morning, introduced a segment on sexual harassment saying: “…has anything really changed? Just ahead we’re going to ask noted law professor Catherine MacKinnon and conservative spokeswoman Phyllis Schlafly to talk about that.”
It sound innocent enough but why is it that Phyllis Schlafly was identified as conservative, but Catherine MacKinnon was not identified as a radical feminist or a far-left law professor or even as a plain old liberal? MacKinnon, after all, is at least as far to the left as Schlafly is to the right. Why was she simply a “noted law professor”? The clear implication was that Catherine MacKinnon is an objective, well-respected observer and Phyllis Schlafly is a political partisan.
In fact, during the Clarence Thomas-Anita Hill hearings, NBC News actually brought MacKinnon in as an “expert” to bring perspective to the hearings. MacKinnon is the feminist ideologue who had famously implied that all sexual intercourse is rape. This did not deter NBC News.
This blindness, this failure to see liberals as anything but middle-of-the-road moderates, happens all the time on network television.”

Goldberg gives plenty of examples to back this up. I have noticed many examples in my newspaper. I’ve been made much more aware of it since reading the book.”

“too many 'reporters', as opposed to 'journalists' set out to change the world, which is not their jobs. this is passed off as news. their job is to report what happened, not tell us what to think of what happened....”

“arc, I think there is more than one logical conclusion to your problem, but the most logical seems to be 16.”

“Seventeen”

“Newspaper editors club reporters over the head when they make "editorial" statements that commonly crop up in radio and television reports. They will report a story and then offer a subjective statement to wrap it up.

News reporting is supposed to be based on provable fact, but radio and TV journalists consistently make statements that not only cannot be supported, but which often reflect a bias one way or another.

This is not to say it does not surface in print journalism, but it's nowhere nearly as common as it is in electronic media.

Electronic media are under pressure to report things first, and in that milieu, they often go out with reports that are incomplete or sometimes wrong. The newspaper does not hit the streets until the next day, and then the take is that we got scooped, or that we didn't have the same report they saw on TV. One would hope not.

Radio and TV often crib stories from newspapers, reporting the story without attributing it to the newspaper they cribbed it from.

A Morning Call billboard once appeared in Allentown, Pa., reading: "Television journalism is an oxymoron."”

“For a start it's 24 - damn - I said I wasn't going to play.
It's an interesting point. I'm sure the guy can go through a long list of examples of bad journalism. In this instance I would ask what were the credentials of the "conservative" to see if something else should have been detailed in the introduction instead. I would also say that her credentials of a law professor outweigh those of the opinions she's put forward, but again more information would be ideal. At first glance this does look like an example of an introduction which should have been handled better - but to judge it properly it needs to be taken in context with the rest of the interview.”

“Ynami's right, it is 24.”

“Arc, in the pre Reagan days, to pick an arbitrary, on a scale of 0 to 10 with the extreme liberals at 1 and the extreme conservatives at 10. The center would be at 5. Correct?
Currently, with the polls showing major support for Bush and his conservative policies, in your opinion, has the center shifted to 7? Or is the center still at 5?”

“I am really impressed, and you have proven me to have weak hypothesis, ynami! The answer is indeed 24.

(3x3) = 9; 9x2=18
(2x2x2)=8; 8x3=24

Nav, I believe that the polls show support for Bush on his Iraq policy. I think that it is a general tendency to “rally-round-the-flag” in times of war. I’m not sure that they show support for his economic policies, environmental policies, or “domestic agenda”. I would have to know exactly which polls you were talking about. I don’t know what is the political stance of the country as a whole. I would guess that it’s pretty close to center. You can’t get much closer than the last presidential election, and congress is fairly evenly divided. It depends on which issues we are talking about. I agree with Goldberg when he says that the rise in “conservative” talk radio and the correlating drop in TV News viewers is probably a backlash from years of slanted journalism. Fox News, according to Goldberg, is the ONLY news channel that consistently presents ANY “conservative” views. I was watching Hannity and Coombs the other night. Hannity repeatedly makes the assertion that Fox presents balanced news. Goldberg says much the same thing in his book. “Liberals”, however often talk about bias in the media as it relates to Fox News or Rush Limbaugh. I find that interesting.

Did anyone see lawyer Stanley Cohen on Hannity and Coombs last night? I found his views a little EXTREME.



If a jet has a value of one, and a plane has a value of 2, what is the value of a Concorde?”

“3+6=9. 9+9=18.
2+6=8. 8+9=17.”

“Sheeat! Now we're down to fuzzy math questions? LOL!”

“arclite, i was thinkin that guy was prolly related to pheadrus , last night. geesh, whatta kook. i thought weinburger's comments were right on about that cohen guy...

weinburger also said something about the poles and bush's popularity .....he was asked why the left(like cohen) seems so frantic and hostile these days...and he said the left can't stand seeing bush have any sucess(like iraq & terrorism) and so it makes them try even harder to find faults and it just makes the public like bush all the more. i think that happened in the clinton years. the republicans keep freaking out, trying to bust clinton on every little thing( for the record, i think the rep's went too far), and it made the public overlook some of clinton's flaws and support him more than they ordinarily would have. the backlash effect, if you will...pretty interesting dynamic....like pullin for the underdog....”

“Arclite - you seem to have hit a particularly weak point. How does Fox news present a "balanced" news when the man in charge there, a certain Mr Hume, acts as a pundit on a his show his own channel produces. How can it present "balanced" news coverage when it took an editorial decision not to cover certain aspects of the war in Iraq.
The list can be much longer.
You suggest my arguments are weak - when you've presented no evidence to back yours up. Please provide at least some original thought, rather than the rambling passages you've managed so far.

You still haven't managed to do any better. Please try harder.

You can start by explaining how my hypothesis is "weak" - then build one of your own - this time using some factual examples rather than "in my experience" or "this book says".
I also suggest you find a few more trickier "puzzles" for me. The one's you're listing aren't up to much.
I thought this could be fun arclite, but you're not really up to the task.”

“I think ynamiynami is right with his answer. I think Dundan's answer has merit. And I also think that 3 is a third of 9 and a 6th of 18; while 2 is a fourth of 8 and an 8th of 16.

I stand on my original position that the question has multiple acceptable answers.”

“Chili can be my negotiator any time.”

“2+2=4. What'd I win?”

“lolz dan, he's good ain't he....”

“Yeah, Strat. You just have to watch which side of his mouth he's speaking from.”

“Generally speaking, it is the one away from the Bud can.”