Clinton and Media Bias

“It seems the RepubliCON controlled press just can’t let up on this guy.

Here is a very well-written account of media bias against Bill Clinton.


gainesvillesun.com

Speech coverage was biased

David Grant,
Gainesville

I went to see Bill Clinton speak, as did at least one reporter for The Gainesville Sun. From my perspective, he gave a thoughtful and intelligent speech in which he was careful not to bash the current administration.

He prefaced his speech with lines like, "I may be wrong, but..." and, "It's only my opinion." He responded to one question by saying, "That question puts me in a good light and the current administration in a bad light. I don't think that's quite fair."

I was very impressed with his views and the overall tenor of his speech. Of course, a sub-heading in The Gainesville Sun brayed, "Message a rebuke to Bush's policies."

Clinton spoke as a citizen, not as a national-policy adviser. I found him to be extremely classy in the way he addressed differences of opinion with the current administration. He could have easily taken the low road.

Before he took the stage, an overwhelmingly partisan crowd booed when a member of Accent named some of the people who had spoken before, including former President Bush.

But he chose not to tell people what he thought the current administration ought to do. Instead, he gave an opinion of what he would do. I did not form the confrontational impression, "Message a rebuke to Bush's policies," as was reported in The Gainesville Sun. Either they're too lazy at The Sun to read "Bias" by Bernard Goldberg, or, as the book suggests, they just don't have a clue that they're doing anything wrong.”

“Dat paw widdle puddy tat!”

“Wow Violin, don't you read anything counter to your own opinions?”

“Oh, he can read it all right. He just can't deal with it.”

“Nigal, the irony in this is that our own ultra republican, the esteemed Mr. arclite wrote the letter expressing his opinion.”

“So you are assuming that was written by a liberal Clinton lover?”

“chili stole my line!”

“Though I think arclite would object to the republican label too.”

“Yeah, violin, you are probably right. I am not quite sure what label to put on arlite. Then again, he makes a persuasive argument that labels are meaningless.”

“Who said anything about liberal vs. conservative. I just asked a question why Violin's cut and pastes always seam to serve his views and not others? He questioned my variety of media intake in another thread but it seems he is guilty of the same thing he accusses me of.”

“Libertarian/Anarchist”

“Would you care to see my ‘favorites’ news & politics folder Nigal? I read a broad range of points of view.

Now… what I choose to troll the reactionary right on this board is a different matter (at least under this handle).”

“I was just trolling back. I don't even read your cut and pastes for the fact I know it's there for trolling purposes only.”

“I read a broad range of points of view

Then how come you don't have many, if any, substantive, original points to make? Like stratdewd, your opinions appear to be completely plagiarized without the benefit of critical thought. The "cut-n-paste my way through an argument" that you and stratdewd engage in is so banal and cliche - not to mention boring. What a hack poseur.”

“"BURN!"
-Michael Kelso”

“Cut and paste = I don't feel comfortable saying what I think, so I'll let somebody else think for me.”

“I suppose paraphrasing The Weekly Standard is a display of brilliance.”

“I've found that the Far Side and Calvin & Hobbes suits my needs.”

“I suppose paraphrasing The Weekly Standard is a display of brilliance

Looks like I touched a nerve.”

“NOW I know why you were grinning. You fink! Violin, you busted my anonymity.

Not being a republican, chili, I don’t object to your calling me that. It’s just inaccurate.

I’ll tell you to what I do object. A funny thing happened in my office. A co-worker is a Purdue educated engineer who likes to call himself a liberal. When I gave him Bernard Golberg’s book he refused to read it. Then he went on about how the media IS biased, “Just look at Fox news,” he said.

I asked him if he refused to be open-minded or whether he just didn’t like to read, he had no answer. When I explained to him that Bernard Goldberg was a CBS reporter for 28 years, that he considers himself a “liberal”, and that he never voted for a republican presidential candidate, he grudgingly agreed to look at the book. He pouted for the rest of the day.

The ideas to which I object are the labels “liberal” and “conservative.” More so the label “liberal.” Conservative can mean a belief in traditional values. A belief in traditional values can mean a belief in unchanging principles. If a “conservative” believes in the principle that discrimination based on race or gender is wrong, then a “conservative” could believe that it is ALWAYS wrong based on that principle.

Liberal means open-minded. My experience has shown that most people who call themselves “liberal” are anything but open-minded. They believe in the unchanging dogma of their own unexamined belief structure. And they will take great pains not to examine their dogma. This makes them hypocrites by definition.

The person who calls themself “liberal,” and who believes that discrimination based on race or gender is wrong, but also believes in affirmative action (discrimination based on race or gender) to correct past injustice, is not only a hypocrite, but an unprincipled one as well.

I prefer the term “lefty” for these unprincipled hypocrites. It is a more accurate way of describing these people. Most folks have a very hard time examining their own beliefs. This is the sad state of human affairs. I don’t enjoy being around closed-mined people. I enjoy being around closed-mined lefties even less.


" The unexamined life is not worth living! "

Socrates (470-399 BC)


Are there any people here, who consider themselves “liberal”, who have read BIAS by Bernard Goldberg? It was #1 on the NYT bestseller list, but I can’t find a single person, who considers themself to be a “liberal,” who has read it.”

“People can say what they like about Clinton, but that Rhodes scholar is a smart SOB.

Can't we all express our "opinions", without degrading the opinions of another? Aren't we all allowed our own views? Do we have to play the politician's dirty game of throwing mud on one another?

American's as a united group are an extremely powerful force. The politician's job is to keep us separated & preferably fighting amongst ourselves.

Your local, state & fed gov do this because it works.”

“Actually I was going to leave it up to you to blow your anonymity arc - blame chili. He's the bad guy here.”

“Can't we all just get along, catskhiker?

It's a shame when people shy away from spirited debate. Scince I've been into quotations lately, here's some food for thought catskhiker:

“It is not best that we all think alike; it is difference of opinion which makes horse races.”

Mark Twain


“An adult who ceases after youth to unlearn and relearn his facts and to reconsider his opinions…is a menace to a democratic community.”

Edward Thorndike


“What plays mischief with the truth is that men will insist upon the universal application of a temporary feeling or opinion.”

Herman Melville (1819-1891)


“If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would no more be justified in silencing that one person than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind.”

John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)


“Error of opinion may be tolerated where reason is left free to combat it.”

Thomas Jefferson (1743-1826)”

“I like differences of opinion. I like to bring out emotions in people, but you can do it without disparaging the person.”

“I will have to admit, arclite sure jumps back in with a splash when he shows up.”

“Arclite - the problem I have with everything you say is you seem to try and place narrow-minded people in one category. Could it be that by doing this you are the narrow-minded one?
You accuse liberals of being narrow-minded, yet whenever "righties" hear news they don't like the dismiss it as "liberal bias". Those on the right often lable CNN the Communist News Network as events in the world do not fit in with some peoples values and ideas. To use your words - "They believe in the unchanging dogma of their own unexamined belief structure."”

“...and he farts a lot too!”

“If I'm left of center, am I narrow minded?

Or do I get to be one of the good liberals?”

“Uh, there's close-minded people all across the political spectrum - open minded as well. So I don't understand Arclite's post. In what thread did he and Chili discuss this in more detail?”

“Apparently a few people are having a hard time with the concepts I’ve put forward. I don’t understand the confusion. Maybe we have made some mistakes here.


“Truth will sooner come out of error than from confusion.”

Francis Bacon (1561-1626)


As I posted:
“Most folks have a very hard time examining their own beliefs. This is the sad state of human affairs. I don’t enjoy being around closed-mined people. I enjoy being around closed-mined lefties even less.”

Seems like a clear statement that acknowledges that people across the political spectrum have a difficult time with introspection. My intention was never to imply that it didn’t.


“Man tends to treat all his opinions as principles.”

Herbert Agar


As a matter of fact I thought that all the quotes I posted made this perfectly clear. It may be that I have not expressed myself as clearly as I would have liked, but it is also just as likely that people like ynamiynami tend to polarize themselves and become very defensive when they feel their beliefs questioned. Have you read the book ynamiynami? It might be easier for you to post constructive thought if you had.


Phaedrus, only you can answer that by your actions. Is that Zen enough for you?


How would you suggest questioning beliefs and expressing opinions such as I have while being politically correct, catskhiker? I am afraid that political correctness has stifled freedom of speech to the point that many people are just looking for an excuse to be offended by someone else. That is not my intention. I think that this is a perfect quote for the ideas you are presenting:

“What plays mischief with the truth is that men will insist upon the universal application of a temporary feeling or opinion.”

Herman Melville (1819-1891)

What I was talking about was hypocrisy. Another thing that bothers me, is not ignorance, it is willful ignorance.

“They defend their errors as if they were defending their inheritance.”

Edmund Burke (1729-1797)


One of the best discussions I have ever had was right here on this site. Pedxing and Violin kept arguing with me that I was wrong on a point of logic. I was eventually proved wrong. And in that discussion I learned a great deal of useful information. It was a great debate from my point of view.


“I have made mistakes but I have never made the mistake of claiming that I never made one.”

James Gordon Bennett


Why should people’s feelings get hurt because we express our opinions and points of view? Why should political correctness trump intelligent discussion?

I still haven’t heard from anyone who has read the book. I would be interested in differing opinions. If everyone believed as I do, or were afraid to express their opinion for fear of hurting my feelings, it would be a boring place and I wouldn’t learn anything new.


Mutt, I've read what I thought were some really interesting posts from you lately. Have you undergone a sex change or something?

Nigal don't bust my anonymity too badly here. Only my fiancee is supposed to know about that, and she is sworn to secrecy.”

“"If I'm left of center, am I narrow minded?

Or do I get to be one of the good liberals?"
Phaedrus
03:21:45 PM
04/17/03

No Phaedrus, you suck, of course... ;-)”

“Arclite, I had meant to point out, somewhat sardonically, that you were lumping folks based on your (incomplete) experiences of them. You certainly can't determine, from a discussion we have on the internet, whether I hold my beliefs as truths, no matter how great you might like to believe your perceptive powers to be.

The fact of the matter is that many people put on a persona for the message board - knowingly or not - and try different thoughts and ideas out. Not everything here is based on people's actual beliefs.

Father Goose: bite me. ;)”

“"The fact of the matter is that many people put on a persona for the message board - knowingly or not - and try different thoughts and ideas out. Not everything here is based on people's actual beliefs."

Ya mean you people have been puttin' me on all this time? Jeez, I feel like such a dope...

Father Goose: bite me. ;)"
Phaedrus
04:32:44 PM
04/17/03

Not a chance, bubba, I'm not that kinda guy...”

“Arclite - you're arguments are very simplistic, even if dressed up with some nice quotations. To say that people have trouble with the concepts you put forward gives you understanding of the world a little too much credit. They are fairly simple to grasp. Given longer you may come up with a slightly better argument than most so-called liberals are hypocrites.

I don't need to read the book you point me toward to be aware of media bias. I suggest you take in a wider range of sources in coming to your opinions.”

“yamanamidoo, you are a pompus windbag. not that there's anything wrong with that. the world needs pinheads too....

i'm just a stupid guitar player but i can see what you just did. you told aclite that you don't need to look at a broader range of opinions and then suggested that he does do what you are above doing.

i say you're chicken!

BAWK BAWWWK BAWWWWWWK!



mutt, you are a vienna sausage...limp, wet, and stinky.....even though we often agree, you continue to infer that because of my writing/posting style, i am uninteligent and irrelevant. well, whatever dood, i don't really give a crap what you think about me, or how you may judge my syntax. i don't have all day to sit here on this God-forsaken box and type eloquent to prove my intelligence or worth. i use my instints, common sence, and logic and many times i use quotes to bolster my arguments. big STANKIN deal.



blather away, i'm gonna play ma guitar”

“glue,so every thing the right or left does bounces off me and cost you money,cost lives and wastes time,but sure blows your skirts up.”

“waht you say is what you are, you're a sniveling, banned moviestar!”

“I'm not wearing any pants!”

“Phaedrus, my perceptive powers sometimes even go beyond this message board and into the "real" world. I still haven't met a person who thinks of himself as a “liberal” who has read the book. Is that lumpy enough for you? Prejudice is one thing, but patterns are hard to miss if you only look.

Yada-yada-ynami, if my concepts are fairly simple to grasp, why don’t you address them? I’m sure that YOU don’t feel the need to read any more than you already know on the subject (are you seeing a pattern here, Phaedrus?). What sources of information on media bias would you suggest?

Stratdewd, awesome post. May your fingers move over the strings like the immortal Jimi.

You better not go out hunting like that, Nigal.

I’m still wondering where catskhiker was coming from. Maybe she (I’m assuming here) objected to my harsh views. Concepts such as, “I don’t enjoy being around…” may appear shocking to some folks. Let me try to get this pc thing down:

Closed-minded hypocrites as well as people in the KKK, JDL, and NAMBLA are regular folks, I just wouldn’t want to marry one.

…No, no, wait, I can do better…

When meeting a closed-minded hypocrite, I will be polite and tip my hat. Then we will move on, like two ships passing in the night.

Pretty good, huh?”

“wasn't gonna bite.... but what the hell.

Strat - not reading a single book someone tells you to is not narrow minded. I could say you know nothing about backpacking unless you've read Beyond Backpacking - would that be true? - no.

Arclite - You don't really raise any points beyond this guy (now two guys) wouldn't read your book - therefore liberals are narrow-minded hypocrites. When you stop chasing your tail on that one and raise some points worth considering, then lets talk :o)”

“baaawwwk bawwk BAWWWWWWK[walkin around like mic jajjer]”

“Shush now chicken boy, the grown-ups are talking.”

“[playin 'chiken in tha breadpan, pickin out dough' on ma strat]”

“Now this is what I call serious discussion, seriously!”

“"Shush now chicken boy, the grown-ups are talking."

I don't agree with ya but, gosh damn, what a great burn!”

“[eyeroll]

have a great day everyone!”

“See, now here's a point of discussion, yani. I don't say, “liberals are narrow minded hypocrites.” Are we still having problems with that concept?

What I say is, that (by definition) a “liberal” is open-minded, as in open to new ideas. In keeping with the idea of open-minded, a “liberal” should be willing to listen to other points of view. Since Bernard Goldberg’s book is THE ONLY book written on media bias about which I am aware, I would have hoped that some “liberals” would have been interested in what he has to say on the subject. Or in your case, you could have provided me with more sources, as you mention in you post. What I find in my experience is that many people, who call themselves “liberals”, like the guy in my office, often DON’T WANT TO read a point of view that conflicts with their dogmatically righteous morality. A similar type of righteous morality to what they accuse the religious right of pushing on them.

Kleetn mentioned, on an earlier thread, that Rush Limbaugh would tell you how to think if you listen to his show. He doesn’t mention that ABC, CBS, NBC, and the NYT will also tell you how to think. I may be wrong, but I don’t think he’s ever considered the possibility that the mainstream news media are OBVIOUSLY slanting the news and pretending that it’s objective reporting. Listen to all of the journalistic talk about FOX news. Then read BIAS.

I have always made the point that labels are pretty much meaningless. The idea that I put forward here is that if you call yourself a “liberal”, and you DON’T WANT TO listen to other points of view, then you are a hypocrite by definition. If you don’t want to address that, why not address my argument about affirmative action policy. Do you think the "liberal" stance towards affirmative action is hypocritical?

If you can’t find anything to discuss in either of those subjects, my guess is it’s because YOU DON’T WANT TO discuss differing points of view.”

“I think Noam Chomsky has written extensively on media bias. On the other side of the political spectrum, Ann Coulter has written a few things about the subject.

Not familiar with either of these or the multitude of others arc? You self-righteous hypocrite you!”

“What about cathode bias?

What's the value of your bypass capacitor?”

“"Liberal means open-minded. My experience has shown that most people who call themselves “liberal” are anything but open-minded. They believe in the unchanging dogma of their own unexamined belief structure. And they will take great pains not to examine their dogma. This makes them hypocrites by definition."

ermmm, is it me or do you say here that in your experience most liberals are closed-minded and hypocrites by definition?

I work in the media, my wife works in the media, many of our friends work in the media - and yet unless I read this book I'm closed minded?”