Is the Bush plan working?

“Mutt, I see what you are saying and what I expressed is only theory based on what I feel I have learned about human nature, but you don't seem to be taking into account my reasoning for what I said. I know it's more simplistic, but humans sometimes do certain things for frivolous reasons and this may or may not be an exception...”

“And of course the entire world now loves and respects the USA, well, er, maybe at least Spain and Britain."
~Alaska

"Loves"? Not necessarily - but "respects" for sure. Maybe not the entire world, natch... but Islam. Definitely Islam. Remember, Islam was borne of violence - Mohommad was a ruthless warrior first and foremost. They may hate us to no end, but they GOTTA respect us now. Bush proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that their violence pales in comparison to our resolute counter-violence.




"If Bush intended to get himself impeached then its working great."
~Dirty old man

Bush took a gamble, for sure. But then again, his placing the American people ahead of whatever political aspirations he may have was commendable and respectable.

I love it. Unlike most politicos, Bush doesn't rely on the opinion polls to form his opinions.

The "cowboy" gots some guts...
and a conscience.”

“While I supported our actions in Iraq, I hold no illusions of exactly what kind of sleaze Bush is.”

“Where did this myth the the Bush administration doesn't rely on polling come from? It's factually incorrect.

(or pick your own source)

Who are Jan van Lohuizen and Fred Steeper?”

“Pay particular attention to the last two paragraphs.


From Nic Robertson
CNN
Friday, May 2, 2003 Posted: 9:27 PM EDT (0127 GMT)



BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- When U.N. inspectors raided the home of Iraqi nuclear scientist Falih Hassan in January, they discovered nuclear research documents.

The inspectors were acting on a tip from British intelligence. For the first time, the team unearthed something unexpected, triggering the anticipation that Iraq's suspected weapons of mass destruction secrets were on the verge of being exposed.

Iraqi authorities held a news conference in which Hassan gave international reporters the impression he was fighting for his life.

Saddam's regime is in shreds but Hassan -- free from the pressure he admits he felt from Iraqi authorities -- still says he was telling the truth.

"As I said at my press conference and I am saying now and I say for sure, this thing belonged to the nuclear research center. This was academic work," he told CNN. "I didn't hide anything, I didn't hide my work. We were very clear, we very transparent in our declaration."

Hassan is not the only Iraqi scientist to say he wasn't lying.

Amer Al Sa'adi, the scientific adviser to Saddam Hussein, has turned himself in to U.S. authorities. Yet he also is sticking to his original assertion that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction programs.

The U.S.-trained former head of Iraq's biological warfare program, Nassir Hindawi, says fear of retribution from remnants of Saddam Hussein's Baath Party stops him from surrendering to U.S. troops searching for him, but CNN found him and interviewed him.

"In every street there are members of the Baath Socialist Party that are probably hoping and dreaming of getting power again," he said. "They have weapons and arms ... and so nobody knows how the country is going to be in the future."

Hindawi admits he lied to inspectors until his cover was blown in the mid-1990s. Since then, however, he says he has been telling the truth.

"As far as biological weapons are concerned, there is no need to search for that because the toxins were crude proteins," he said.


U.N. inspectors visit the Al Dora Foot and Mouth Disease Institute in Iraq.
According to U.N. inspectors, Iraq had several thousand scientists and engineers like Hindawi who were involved in Iraq's WMD programs. Not knowing where all of them are and what they are doing is raising concerns about post-war efforts to control what may be left of Iraq's weapons programs.

"Any weapons of mass destruction or the equipment to make them is unprotected, and given the looting, you have to assume that some of it has been taken away," said David Albright, a former U.N. weapons inspector.

"The scientists have to worry about their future, and they may opt to leave Iraq looking for a better future ... there may be some scientists who have a deep grudge against the United States," Albright said. "Who knows [if they] are going to try to find some way to get revenge?"

But it's not just the slow pace of finding the scientists that bothers Albright.

"If no WMD are found, then the fundamental justification for this war is not there, and there's going to have to be some real answers why we went to war and how did the U.S. make such a huge mistake about the WMD programs in Iraq," he said.

Questions have arisen about the quality of the intelligence cited by Great Britain and the United States to make the case for an aggressive U.N. inspection program.

In October 2002, President Bush spoke in Cincinnati, Ohio, and displayed a satellite image of a facility called Al Furat. He said the picture revealed the rebuilding of a past nuclear facility -- which bolstered his contention that Iraq was reconstituting its nuclear weapons program.

In response, Iraqi officials rushed hundreds of journalists to Al Furat to show Iraq had nothing to hide. When U.N. inspectors returned to the country, they visited Al Furat on their third day and journalists were allowed back.

"We don't have anything as far as this site is concerned. We don't have anything to hide," Hassan told reporters taking the tour.

Inspectors returned several more times to Al Furat.


U.N. inspectors came back many times to the former Al Furat nuclear facility but found nothing but junked radio equipment.
Then on March 7, less than two weeks before the war began, top inspector Mohamed ElBaradei, director-general of the International Atomic Energy Agency, said IAEA inspectors could not verify that Iraq had a nuclear weapons program.

"There is no indication of resumed nuclear activities in those buildings that were identified through the use of satellite imagery as being reconstructed or newly erected since 1998, nor any indication of nuclear-related prohibited activities at any inspected sites," El Baradei told the U.N. Security Council.

Like many places in Iraq, Al Furat was looted after the war. Even door frames were removed. The junked equipment left at the ravaged site seems to support the deposed Iraqi regime's claims that Al Furat was nothing more than a radio frequency testing and repair facility.

Al Furat wasn't the only site that the U.S. and British governments singled out. The Al Dora Foot and Mouth Disease Institute was once a key hub in Iraq's biological warfare program -- but U.N. inspectors had destroyed its equipment in 1996.

The new team of inspectors came to Al Dora Institute on the second day of work in November, 2002, to follow up on suspicions that bio-weapons work had resumed.

Inspectors found two mixers missing but those were quickly tracked down. Iraqis denied WMD work had started up again.

Plant Director Montasar Al Ani was eager to show journalists how the site was disabled by U.N. inspectors back in 1996. He repeated his assertion that he is unaware of a weapons program after 1994.

"I am not responsible for that," he said, adding that he had not been working there before 1994.

Despite more visits by inspectors to this and other sites flagged by the United States and Great Britain, the U.N. failed to substantiate any WMD programs.

Privately, inspectors told reporters they were frustrated by the bad intelligence information provided by the U.S. government. Chief U.N. weapons inspector Hans Blix hinted as much in a February 14 briefing to the U.N. Security Council.

"We must recognize that there are limitations [to intelligence] and that misinterpretations can occur," Blix said.

Since the toppling of Saddam's regime, more has been learned about intelligence gathering in Iraq.

The Iraqi National Congress revealed that Mohammad Mohsen Zubaidi -- the self- appointed mayor of Baghdad now in U.S. custody, accused by Iraqis of receiving looted funds -- was one of the INC's top intelligence-gathering officials in Iraq. The INC has close ties to the Pentagon.

"The problem isn't that the INC was dishonest, per se. What it is, is that they were willing to believe anything bad about Saddam Hussein that could help their cause of regime change," said Albright, the former U.N. inspector.

"And I think the Pentagon, particularly the hard-liners, suspended their analytical judgment in order to adopt some of these points of view and information."

U.S. officials, however, believe Iraqi scientists and former officials will eventually open up about WMD programs.

"Now, whether it is the mobile labs or weapons disguised as industry, we are finding ... that the capabilities were even more dispersed and disguised than we had thought," U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said in an April 30 speech to the National Defense University.

"The evidence of Saddam Hussein's programs is likely to be spread across many hundreds and even possibly thousands of sites in Iraq. It is going to take us months to find this material, but find it we will," Armitage said.

Hampering those efforts are many contradictory reports from various U.S. military teams searching for WMD.

For example, the U.S. Army's 1st Squadron, 10th Cavalry investigated a site at Baiji, north of Baghdad. They said they had detected nerve and blister agents in 55-gallon drums.

Another team got the same test results. But then a third, more senior team -- known as Mobile Exploitation Team Bravo -- could not substantiate the earlier results using more sophisticated methods.

Albright says the failure to find WMD so far raises larger concerns.

"One of the questions about whether the U.S. government or officials lied is if the U.S. believed its own story, that there were so many weapons of mass destruction, you would expect them to be completely panicked right now, because they are not protected, and they could go easily missing and get into the hands of terrorists," he said.

"And yet they're not panicked. So you do have to start to wonder whether the ... people who believed these stories, really were the American people and not the U.S. government."”

“"Pay particular attention to the last two paragraphs."

The very fact that the last two paragraphs are quoting Madiline Halfbright, and you believe her, is a true indication of just how deep your mental defect runs Alaska. Liberalism isn't a state of mind it's a mental illness.”

“NIGALS SHOOTS, HE SCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORES! ! ! !”

“When all else fails, make fun of the source and ignore the argument.”

“And psychopathic liars like Bush are your hero? And Reagan with his mental illness is your hero?

Anyone who admires and supports a psychopathic liar such as Bush is obviously psychopathic themself.”

“Hi Spock.”

“Phade, with all due respect, that's like saying the Inquirer is a good source of information because it is a paper just like the NY Times. If it's a paper it must be true. Halfbright was an absolute stark raving knucklehead and she left the state department in shambles. I wouldnm't believe a single damn word from her mouth even if she said the sky was blue.”

“Gojo,you've just opened the door to raid the rest of the world. Should the US become the looters of the world? Or,is it?”

“What now? U.S. credibility shot to hell, worldwide? Can't lay that on the opposition, boys. If WMD aren't found, we just look like the bigger bully. If we can't engender respect, we'll settle for fear. I guess that's the plan.

Did you happen to notice that when Newt crawled from under his rock and lit into the State Dept. last week, he was talking about the POWELL State Dept, not Albright's?

Most curious.”

“I hate to burst your bubble, but the quotes are from David Albright, a former inspector for the divided nations.”

“HAHA! That's what I get for just readiong the last two paragraphs. I absolutely hate the damn cut and paste bs. As I have shown myself, hardly anyone reads the things anyhow.”

“the world is now a safer place because our president had the nads to do something and to continue to do something......terrorism is not over with for sure, and America must be on guard here and to take our justice all over the world........and the beautiful part is >>>>> terrorists know it.”

“Chalk up another one for Karl.”

“my favorite was Chico”

“the other day i saw a donkey in my pajamas....how he got in my pajamas i'll never know...”

“Of course you don't read, Nigal. You just make up BS and lies. That's the hallmark of republicans.”

“NIGALS SHOOTS, HE SCOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORES! ! ! !"
stratdewd


Nigal and stratdewd are F*&%-ups.”

“Well, Osama made Sadaam hide them too well for us to find them. That joker, Osama, practically ran the country of Iraq, don't you know?”

“These republicans just keep gettin' smarter and smarter, "don't you know." If you don't know jack-#&%!$, just make up crap like Dunadan and Nigal.”

“This just gets better and better...

Dang, Dunadan. I had no idea you were such raving republican 'til just now, ROF!”

“alaska, don't think ole dan(whon i actually like alot) would agree with me and nigal on too many political matters.


what lies are you refering to alaska? if you would like to debate something, lemme know.......people are waking up and smelling the donkey doo. the truth will set you free....”

“Alaska is nothing more than a one trick pony. His views are so one deminsional he has to resort to the "squeeky wheel gets the greese"...even if that wheel happens to be politicly retarded.”

“Dun's response seemed more sarcastic than serious. Am I wrong?”

“Is the 'Bush plan' to show his contempt for those who actually served by slashing their benefits by nearly $29 billion over the next decade and restricting their access to medical care, in order to reduce taxes on his friends and patrons?

Yep, that's 'respect and admiration' Bush style.”

“They asked me how I knew
That the war was through
I of course replied
Sad Sack may have died
In bunker deep inside”

“Yeah, Alaska is quite the little booger, eh?

Who cares. As long as he keeps to Alaska - and keeps his a@@ out of America - he won't be an issue.”

“we could trade alaska for cuba... fair enough?”

“Ted Stevens is going to be somewhat surprised that Alaska isn't part of America, LOL. I was just thinking about Murkowski... I guess his daughter was the most qualified relative he had for that appointment.

Yes, V. How's about those midnight benefit cuts? Pretty Slick, eh?”

“Very slick indeed.

Clinton signed a succession of military pay and benefit increases and they said he was leaving us dangerously unprepared.

Little George cuts military benefits and his puppets in the lapdog press say that dissenters don’t support the troops.

Makes perfect sense to me.”

“Lapdog press.

Is that anything like Cat Fancy magazine?”

“Pethouse Mag?”

“Nigal shoots.....his mouth off......stratdewd shoots the follow-up......dud”

“LOL! Not the first time nor the last. Get used to it! 8)”

“Just out of curiousity, what was the "Gore Plan" to deal with world wide terrorism? What was the "Clinton Plan"? What is the "Democrat Plan"? I'd like to compare them with the "Bush Plan."”

“Fair question Bob. According to the NY Times, the Clinton administration did quite a bit:

- The CIA created a virtual station to track bin Laden.

- American diplomats pressed Sudan to expel bin Laden.

- State Dept. circulated a dossier that accused bin Laden of financing radical Islamic causes around the world.

- NSA eavesdropped on telephone lines used by Al Qaeda and broke up one Al Qaeda unit as a result.

- Ordered cruise missile strike on Al Qaeda camp in Afghanistan.

- The United States disrupted other Al Qaeda cells, and got several Al Qaeda members prosecuted in Egypt.

- President Clinton approved the use of lethal covert force against bin Laden and a dozen of his top lieutenants.

- Four times Clinton authorized the CIA to kill or capture bin Laden.

- The C.I.A. stationed submarines in the Indian Ocean to track bin Laden's movements in preparation for a cruise missile attack.

- The White House asked the Joint Chiefs of Staff to develop plans for a commando raid to capture or kill bin Laden. The Pentagon balked.

- Clinton administration tried to choke off Al Qaeda's financial network by threatening states and banks with sanctions if they dealt with the terrorist group.

- In 1999 and 2000, some $255 million of Taliban-controlled assets was blocked in United States accounts.

- Arrested Ahmed Ressam when he tried to enter the United States in Port Angeles, Wash., on Dec. 14, 1999. Ressam had 130 pounds of bomb-making chemicals.

- In March 2000, the FBI, started a series of anti-terrorism seminars with agents who headed the bureau's 56 field offices, encouraging them to hire more Arabic translators and develop better sources of information.

- The FBI asked for money for a computer system that would allow various field offices to share and analyze information collected by agents--the Republican Congress initially said no.

- In September 2000, an unarmed, unmanned spy plane flew over Afghanistan searching for bin Laden.

- In October 2000, the administration unsuccessfully tried to kill bin Laden.


The Gore Commission on Aviation Safety and Security made numerous recommendations to improve airline security but the Republican controlled congress bowed pressure from the airline industry and refused to fund the vast majority of it.



Of course the Bush team realized that not nearly enough had been done to combat the threat from worldwide terror groups and immediately upon his swearing in up to 9/11/01 they did exactly --- nothing.”

“"The White House asked the Joint Chiefs of Staff to develop plans for a commando raid to capture or kill bin laden. The Pentagon balked."

I thought for sure the Pentagon worked for the White House. Maybe these so-called facts are just made up lies by the left? If Klinton ordered the Joint Chiefs to do something and they "balked" they should of been fired and replaced.

Anyway the funny part about the left's argument is that if Gore had been elected in 2000 and he took the same actions as Bush they'd be 100% behind Gore. No questions asked.”

“gore would not have taken the same actions as Bush. gore would have surrendered to Afghanistan, France, or al quaida on 9/12/01.

After crapping in his pants, of course.”

“Not only do these guys know what politicians who are not in power would do if they were in power, they know exactly who we would back. You guys are pretty intelligent. How come you have only been promoted to armchair generals?”

“That's Armchair Field Marshall!”

“Head for the mountains of Bush.

Ooops, they were bulldozed flat for mountaintop coal removal.

Tooooooooooooo late!”

“Geo, you should see East Ky. I'm all for coal mining, but it's a shame to go back home where I grew up and see the top 1/3 of the mountains gone.”

“<grim laughter>”

“Penguin for Pres!”

“Former Navy secretary blasts Bush on Iraq

By DENNIS O'BRIEN, The Virginian-Pilot
© August 30, 2003

NORFOLK -- Former Navy Secretary James Webb blasted the Bush administration's policy on Iraq, saying it was sold to the American people on false premises.

``I am very troubled by the fact that we went into Iraq and very troubled about how we're going to get out of Iraq,'' Webb said Thursday to about 200 naval officers, veterans and civilians at the Radisson Hotel Norfolk. The lecture was sponsored by the Hampton Roads Naval Museum and the Naval War College Foundation.

The United States should quickly get the United Nations involved in administering and patrolling the country, he said.

``We need to get out of there before the mistake we made gets worse,'' said Webb, a Marine Corps veteran.

The Bush administration this week began making efforts toward getting a U.N. force on the ground in Iraq, but a sticking point at the United Nations has been the administration's insistence on a U.S. commander for U.N. troops.

Webb said the troops in Iraq are facing combat experiences similar to those he saw as a platoon leader and company commander in Vietnam, where he was awarded a Navy Cross, a Silver Star and two Bronze Stars for heroism, and two Purple Hearts for wounds.

Webb, who resigned as Navy secretary in 1988 to protest cuts in the size of the fleet, said military leaders have an obligation to their troops.

Bob Briner, a retired Navy captain from Virginia Beach, said he appreciated Webb's observations.

``What I like about Webb is that he's been there, he knows what he's talking about,'' he said.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.”

“Webb sounds like a pretty squared away guy.”