how many guns you got?

“Yeah that willy peter will run the bears off though, and disincline them from further raids.”

“That's a Barrett in .50 cal Browning MG isn't it? All Americans should be required to own one of those and practice with it monthly.”

“"The Glock .45 is my favorite to shoot. It has a laser sight, but I don't normally use it for target shooting."

Nice gun. You could reduce a perp to "glockamoli" with one of those.”

“Your son should do one of those sweats on the world's first assault rifle, the StG-44. This is the rifle the Russians based their AK-47 on. As a matter of fact, almost all modern military rifles and machine guns are based on German designs of WWII. If you look at the M-60 machine gun used by our troops in Viet Nam and then look at an MG-43 the similarities are amazing. Here a link for a good view of the StG-44.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as51-e.htm
last edited: 5/24/05 8:44:55 PM”

“No guns here; way too high of a liability here in suburban NJ. Besides, we'd just rather let the bears overrun the place...”

“Sol, thats the Barrett XM-109. Here is its tag line:

Sniping just got a whole lot more deadly with the Barrett XM-109 sniper rifle, which marries improved range with the firepower of an Apache helicopter.
last edited: 5/24/05 8:46:57 PM”

“I have a cute little yellow Sponge Bob Squareparts water pistol....does that count?

I shot a bug the other day with it....I don't think the bug liked it too much....man i'm hip...”

“The caliber? Looks too stubby to be a .50 or is that an explosive round on .50 cal brass?

I guess it brings a whole new meaning to the old adage "Reach out and touch someone."”

“"All Americans should be required to own one of those and practice with it monthly."

im all for responsible gun ownership, but i hope youre kidding about this statement.”

“Sol, I am no expert. here is a sales pitch for it:

Hakkaa Päälle -- the term is Finnish for "Cut them down," and it's been passed down from the Finnish cavalry of Gustavus Adolphus in the 17th century to the Finnish infantry during the Russo-Finn Winter War in the 20th century.

With any luck, America's light infantry will soon be saying it as well. Already established as the world's authority and leader in the production of heavy caliber long range sniper rifles -- including the M107 .50 caliber rifle -- Barrett Arms hopes to raise the bar even higher with the introduction of its new XM-109 25mm payload rifle. Based on the existing M-107 design, the XM-109 will give infantry the ability to lethally engage light armored vehicles out to 2500 meters, with the firepower of an Apache helicopter. For Soldiers needing an edge in combat, that's a pretty good can of Hakkaa Päälle to open up on the enemy.

Deadly Combination

The XM-109 is essentially a reconfigured M-107 .50 Caliber semi-automatic rifle -- if you can imagine a .50 caliber rifle being mated with a 25 mm receiver. Thanks to the increased power, the XM-109 rifle is designated as a "payload" rifle, designed to destroy light armor, and light enough to be carried by a single sniper. Essentially, the 25mm upper receiver attaches directly to the lower receiver of the M-107 (in effect, swapping out the .50 caliber components for 25mm ones). In the process, the rifle's weight actually remains unchanged at 33 pounds, but its length has been shortened considerably, with the XM-109 (at 46 inches) being 11 inches shorter than the M-107.

Like the M-107, the XM-109 will come with a spiked bipod (to stabilize the weapon and help manage recoil), a large, multi-baffle muzzle brake, and a standard "flattop" optical sight rail, which will allow the rifle to use any existing electro-optical or thermal weapon sight currently in the US inventory. Ammunition is fed out of a detachable box magazine, though in the case of the XM-109, magazine capacity has been reduced from 10 to 5 rounds. Barrett is currently developing mounts to enable the XM-109 to be used in vehicles, helicopters, and soft-sided (rubber) watercraft.


The components of the XM-109; chief among them is the 25mm receiver.


The centerpiece of the XM-109 system is the 25mm HEDP ammunition it fires. A scaled down derivative of the low velocity 30mm HEDP M789 ammunition fired by the AH-64 Apache attack helicopter, the MX-109's 25mm ammunition has been judged to be 2.5 times more effective at destroying targets than a .50 caliber armor-piercing round. It is expected that this ammunition can penetrate nearly 40mm (an inch and a half) of armor plating at 500 meters, or blast open doors from around the corner. In other words, it gives the Soldier breaching capability on fortified positions, while minimizing exposure to enemy fire, thanks to its effectiveness at greater distances. Also in the works are a number of specialized rounds, ranging from solid core AP ammunition to non-lethal/ crowd control munitions utilizing inert rubber balls, and RC agents.

Must-Have Gear



REAL-TIME MILITARY STRATEGY
Ripped from today's headlines, Act of War: Direct Action is a frightening tale of suspense, international intrigue and geopolitical military conflict.







Zeroing In

To enable the shooter to engage targets out to 2,500 meters, Barrett has developed an integrated ballistic computer/ riflescope system known as BORS (Barrett Optical Ranging System). Historically, long range shooting has been a highly technical endeavor in which the shooter had to make a number of calculations before the trigger could be pulled. These calculations included range to the target, the effects of barometric pressure and air temperature, and the type of ammunition loaded. BORS automatically calculates all these variables, and adjusts the sight reticule accordingly. All the shooter needs to do is enter the ammunition type into the BORS (using touch pads on the BORS console) determine the range (either mechanically or through a LRF) and crank the elevation knob on the scope until the proper range appears in the BORS display. The BORS automatically determines the temperature and barometric pressure, as well as the cant or tilt in the rifle itself, and incorporates these enviro-physical factors into its calculations. Once the proper range has been entered, the shooter need only put the target under the crosshairs and pull the trigger.


The XM-109 undergoing testing.


The Block I version of BORS is available now, while Block II (which will include an integrated range finder) is expected to become available in '05 with Block III (new optics, Night Vision capable, wide angle, stabilized image) becoming available in '06. Lastly, Barrett believes that the BORS system will be completely compatible with the 200mm air-bursting grenade featured on the OICW and that similar ammunition could be developed for use in the XM-109, as well as adapting the BORS to the OICW, to provide ranging and environmental information to the 20mm grenade launcher.


The Barrett XM-109 in all its glory.


Right Weapon, Right Time

The XM-109 isn't the first rifle designed with armor-piercing capabilities in mind. One of the great anti-tank rifles (ATR) was the Finnish L39 Lahti. Firing 20mm AP ammunition, the Lahti was deadly against pre-World War II Soviet tanks. Unfortunately, it was also very rough on the shooter as well. Dubbed the "Elephant Gun" because of its savage recoil, the Lahti was rendered obsolete as an ATR by 1941, and by the conclusion of WWII, ATR itself had became a thing of the past. Too light to penetrate tank (or even modern APC) armor, too heavy to be easily transportable, and too hard on the operator to encourage active use, ATRs were simply outclassed by the emergent ATGMs and RPGs.

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Well, ATRs may be making a comeback. While anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs) still reign supreme, there is a niche in today's battlefield where a weapon such as the XM-109 would do very well. Too heavy to be truly considered offensive weapons, both the M-107 and the XM-109 excel in the defense. In the environments American soldiers now find themselves (urban built up areas where the primary human threat is either dismounted infantry or modified civilian vehicles such as the Somali "technicals") a cost effective anti-vehicular weapon is just what they need. In this role, the XM-109 has several advantages over both ATGMs and RPGs. Since it is a rifle, it has no back blast, so it can be fired from within an enclosed structure, vehicle, or aircraft, without danger to the vehicle, or passengers. Firing a small DPHE warhead, the XM-109 is perfectly capable of stopping a vehicle without obliterating it and causing additional collateral damage (as would be the case if the target were hit by a TOW missile).

Finally, the XM-109 is usable throughout its entire range, unlike missiles (and at a significantly longer range than an RPG), and is capable of being employed at far shorter ranges (such as those encountered in urban block fights) than would be possible with helicopter launched ATGMs or unguided aerial rockets. The XM-109 isn't going to turn the tide in the war on terrorism by itself, but it will make it a little safer.”

“One.

The rest are weapons.”

“Nigal- I've seen it. It has significant recoil, but the heavy weight of the gun compensates...somewhat.”

“not enough”

“I headed out to buy a .45 once, but stopped and spent the money on a new guitar instead. My arsenal consists of one BB pistol.”

“Geobeat, you said you have a Firestar 9mm... Do you mean a Firestorm? I have been looking at a Firestorm 40 cal. What are your thots on the Firestorm?”

“No, it's a Firestar, made in Spain. It's a good enough firearm, but the Glock is better.

Not at all familiar with the Firestorm.”

“Just visited their US website and see that Firestorm is Argentinian manufacture.

I personally would not purchase one of those unless I fired it and worked the action. Some of these off brands can be good buys - cheaper than major manufacturers and just as good. Then again, ...”

“I finally got approved on the Accurateloader site so I could see all their vids and there are some great ones in there. The Arabs seem to have a fascination with guns. There were guys shooting the 700 Nitro Expresses, 460 Weatherby mags. Nothing makes me cringe more than seeing someone drop a $15,000 rifle on the concrete. They also had a bunch of safari hunting vids but I’m not into watching other people kill things.”

“I have a Glock 21 in .45 ACP. It is sweet. Kicks about as much as my Taurus PT92.”

“I have a Eureka tent, neat little number for solo trips in 3 season.”

“Of course I meant it. Every able bodied American man (and woman) should own and be proficient with at least a 300 meter shoulder fired weapon. So the even better logical choice would be to be good with a 1200 meter weapon. This new Barrett anti-tank weapon hyway so graciously provided the specs for would fit the bill quite nicely.”

“its a 2500 meter weapon”

“I own enough that if I were to buy just one more, I'd have to buy a larger gun safe to accomodate it. My favorite is the SIG P229 that I carry.”

““I headed out to buy a .45 once, but stopped and spent the money on a new guitar instead. My arsenal consists of one BB pistol.”
toejam

That's what I'm talkin' about!

I want a G-3140 Thinline......great range!”

“a body is a terrible thing to waste”

“I like your thinking, Bearmagnet.”

“bearmagnet! hold on a sec ...

I see you ...

http://www.thebackpacker.com/trailtalk/thread/36647,5.php
last edited: 5/25/05 2:41:42 PM”

“Strange kind of thread deterioration we have here.”

“Well to keep guns going, I have a Benelli M1 Super 90 with the pistol grip stock, extended tube and scope...

My rifle is a Browning A Bolt Stainless Stalker with a Leupold VX 3 4.5-14 50mm obj in 270 WSM.”

“2500 meters?!!! Well you or I could handle that kinda range but for the average American I'd say if they were good at 1200 meters we could give them a merit badge.”

“You wouldn't want to break into our house at night ;-)
An armed family is a safe family.
And no, I am not saying how many we have either :-P
But we do have a sweet post-ban AR15 though ;-)”

“Restoring old firearms is a hobby of mine. The most accurate military rifle I have fired in a non-mousegun caliber (i.e. .223) is the Schmidt-Rubin Karabiner-31, which was standard issue for the Swiss military from 1933-1958. It's not hard to get sub-MOA @ 100 yards with the K-31 even with the iron sights. The good ole M1 Garand is still my favorite though.”

“If I had to choose one single gun for survival it would be a deadlock between the .22 and the Ak 47. The .22 for meat and the AK for two leggeds.”

“Nigal - The Assassin

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA”

“Sol, you could train a monkey to hit targets at 2500 meters according to this description:

““"30-30 is a great brushgun"

Now all ya need is a toothbrush, hillbilly boy!!”
MarkO
4:11:53 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

Toothbrush? Is that anything like a bore brush?”
lumberzac
5:03:33 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“A bore brush? It's a bore. The damn thing was ment to be dirty. Wallowing in the mud all day like that, I mean, why brush him off anyhow?”
Nigal
5:15:41 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Sometimes ladies like to give a bore the brush-off...”
bitpusher
5:16:30 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“You use the toothbrush as a bore brush.”
squirrelbait
5:17:17 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Gawd that'd take forEVER!

bit- I don’t know what’s scarier? That you guys have a euphemism for sex like that or that there’s women who’d agree to use such a euphemism. LOL!”
Nigal
5:19:42 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Um, I was speaking in completely non-sexual idioms there...”
bitpusher
5:21:41 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Someone was caught in an idiom?”
squirrelbait
5:24:55 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Ruger M77,30-06, stainless steel with all weather stock.”
Pathman
6:10:15 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Glock .45, Firestar 9 mm, M1 Carbine, 30-30 carbine, .303 Enfield (Now more a museum piece than working rifle), Freedom Arms .22 modeled on the Colt .45 of the old wild west, .44 caliber Army model percussion cap six-shooter.

The Glock .45 is my favorite to shoot. It has a laser sight, but I don't normally use it for target shooting.

Oh yeah, My M1A1 Abrams tank is a sweet shooter, and the optional flame thrower attachment is good to get fires started in the wettest of weather. The comfort level leaves a bit to be desired, but what the hell, it's great for bushwacking! And with the .50 caliber machine gun, hell, you don't have to be loaded down with a lot of food. The grenade launcher is the best for dealing with problem bears. They only come 'round once. And if you get tired of your hiking partners, the smoke attachment leaves 'em confounded. Now where did that Geobeet get to?”
Geobeet
7:07:44 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“I have one gun and I target practice every day.”
bearmagnet
7:13:04 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Sheesh Geo, the grenade launcher only launches SMOKE grenades, not the kind that blow up. Granted they are White Phospherous, and would burn like hell, but they have no destructive capabilities through explosion. The smoke attachment would chase people away because all it is is fine mists of diesel fuel sprayed onto the extremely hot (900 degrees F) exhaust ducts, causing a billowing white cloud of stinky diesel fumes. The comfort level of an M1A1 is awesome, especially the driver's position. Imagine sitting in a La Z Boy recliner with complete body support while driving a 73 ton tank.”
squirrelbait
7:15:14 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Yeah that willy peter will run the bears off though, and disincline them from further raids.”
Geobeet
7:24:22 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hyway
“That's a Barrett in .50 cal Browning MG isn't it? All Americans should be required to own one of those and practice with it monthly.”
solitary hiker
7:27:47 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Celebrate Diversity”
Phil
8:11:05 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“"The Glock .45 is my favorite to shoot. It has a laser sight, but I don't normally use it for target shooting."

Nice gun. You could reduce a perp to "glockamoli" with one of those.”
Nigal
8:50:30 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Phil
“Your son should do one of those sweats on the world's first assault rifle, the StG-44. This is the rifle the Russians based their AK-47 on. As a matter of fact, almost all modern military rifles and machine guns are based on German designs of WWII. If you look at the M-60 machine gun used by our troops in Viet Nam and then look at an MG-43 the similarities are amazing. Here a link for a good view of the StG-44.

http://world.guns.ru/assault/as51-e.htm
last edited: 5/24/05 9:44:55 PM”
solitary hiker
9:38:23 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“No guns here; way too high of a liability here in suburban NJ. Besides, we'd just rather let the bears overrun the place...”
PhantomSoul
9:40:42 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Sol, thats the Barrett XM-109. Here is its tag line:

Sniping just got a whole lot more deadly with the Barrett XM-109 sniper rifle, which marries improved range with the firepower of an Apache helicopter.
last edited: 5/24/05 9:46:57 PM”
hyway
9:46:24 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“I have a cute little yellow Sponge Bob Squareparts water pistol....does that count?

I shot a bug the other day with it....I don't think the bug liked it too much....man i'm hip...”
stratusloop
9:49:28 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

hyway
“The caliber? Looks too stubby to be a .50 or is that an explosive round on .50 cal brass?

I guess it brings a whole new meaning to the old adage "Reach out and touch someone."”
solitary hiker
9:53:50 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“"All Americans should be required to own one of those and practice with it monthly."

im all for responsible gun ownership, but i hope youre kidding about this statement.”
crash bang
10:01:13 PM
5/24/05
ignore this user

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

“Sol, I am no expert. here is a sales pitch for it:

Hakkaa Päälle -- the term is Finnish for "Cut them down," and it's been passed down from the Finnish cavalry of Gustavus Adolphus in the 17th century to the Finnish infantry during the Russo-Finn Winter War in the 20th century.

With any luck, America's light infantry will soon be saying it as well. Already established as the world's authority and leader in the production of heavy caliber long range sniper rifles -- including the M107 .50 caliber rifle -- Barrett Arms hopes to raise the bar even higher with the introduction of its new XM-109 25mm payload rifle. Based on the existing M-107 design, the XM-109 will give infantry the ability to lethally engage light armored vehicles out to 2500 meters, with the firepower of an Apache helicopter. For Soldiers needing an edge in combat, that's a pretty good can of Hakkaa Päälle to open up on the enemy.

Deadly Combination

The XM-109 is essentially a reconfigured M-107 .50 Caliber semi-automatic rifle -- if you can imagine a .50 caliber rifle being mated with a 25 mm receiver. Thanks to the increased power, the XM-109 rifle is designated as a "payload" rifle, designed to destroy light armor, and light enough to be carried by a single sniper. Essentially, the 25mm upper receiver attaches directly to the lower receiver of the M-107 (in effect, swapping out the .50 caliber components for 25mm ones). In the process, the rifle's weight actually remains unchanged at 33 pounds, but its length has been shortened considerably, with the XM-109 (at 46 inches) being 11 inches shorter than the M-107.

Like the M-107, the XM-109 will come with a spiked bipod (to stabilize the weapon and help manage recoil), a large, multi-baffle muzzle brake, and a standard "flattop" optical sight rail, which will allow the rifle to use any existing electro-optical or thermal weapon sight currently in the US inventory. Ammunition is fed out of a detachable box magazine, though in the case of the XM-109, magazine capacity has been reduced from 10 to 5 rounds. Barrett is currently developing mounts to enable the XM-109 to be used in vehicles, helicopters, and soft-sided (rubber) watercraft.


The components of the XM-109; chief among them is the 25mm receiver.


The centerpiece of the XM-109 system is the 25mm HEDP ammunition it fires. A scaled down derivative of the low velocity 30mm HEDP M789 ammunition fired by the AH-64 Apache attack helicopter, the MX-109's 25mm ammunition has been judged to be 2.5 times more effective at destroying targets than a .50 caliber armor-piercing round. It is expected that this ammunition can penetrate nearly 40mm (an inch and a half) of armor plating at 500 meters, or blast open doors from around the corner. In other words, it gives the Soldier breaching capability on fortified positions, while minimizing exposure to enemy fire, thanks to its effectiveness at greater distances. Also in the works are a number of specialized rounds, ranging from solid core AP ammunition to non-lethal/ crowd control munitions utilizing inert rubber balls, and RC agents.

Must-Have Gear



REAL-TIME MILITARY STRATEGY
Ripped from today's headlines, Act of War: Direct Action is a frightening tale of suspense, international intrigue and geopolitical military conflict.







Zeroing In

To enable the shooter to engage targets out to 2,500 meters, Barrett has developed an integrated ballistic computer/ riflescope system known as BORS (Barrett Optical Ranging System). Historically, long range shooting has been a highly technical endeavor in which the shooter had to make a number of calculations before the trigger could be pulled. These calculations included range to the target, the effects of barometric pressure and air temperature, and the type of ammunition loaded. BORS automatically calculates all these variables, and adjusts the sight reticule accordingly. All the shooter needs to do is enter the ammunition type into the BORS (using touch pads on the BORS console) determine the range (either mechanically or through a LRF) and crank the elevation knob on the scope until the proper range appears in the BORS display. The BORS automatically determines the temperature and barometric pressure, as well as the cant or tilt in the rifle itself, and incorporates these enviro-physical factors into its calculations. Once the proper range has been entered, the shooter need only put the target under the crosshairs and pull the trigger.”

“An armed society is a polite society.”

“damn, gotta watch the highlighting when I cut and paste. Sol, just read the last paragraph”

“well, i dont wanna. so whatcha got to say to that? ya gonna make me?”

“hyway, it may not be too late to edit”

“between mike and I we own 7 guns and a portable missle launcher.”

“some ppl think world peace can be achieved by owning more guns. i think it would be great if we all became nudists and sat around weaving baskets. twould be a lot harder to carry a concealed weapon”

“i'd rather poke my eyes out than be forced to look upon the naked bodies of most humans”

“I shot more bugs today with my handy dandy bright yellow Sponge Bob Squirt Pants water pistol.....those bugs were really pissed!”

“ill give you spirit and mikes missile launcher and you can shoot your eyes out”

“Just don't accidently weave your pubes in there . That'd smart. LOL!

I have heard there was and still is an obscure law on the books in England that all Brits have to pratice shooting a bow.”

“Does anyone know where there's stats on crime rates in countries where gun ownership required?”

“and well they should, freaking bows get into your gardens and eat all your carrots.”

“Nigal,
In Switzerland all males are issued assault rifles and pistols for militia service, and keep them at home. Even after being dischared from active duty they are issued bolt rifles and periodically required to qualify with them. The country is literally awash in firearms and yet it is one of the safest countries in the world.

quote from a BBC article: "Guns are deeply rooted within Swiss culture - but the gun crime rate is so low that statistics are not even kept."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/1566715.stm
last edited: 5/26/05 8:34:14 AM”

“I just found this thread. There is a site called something like ultimatereloading that has dozens of videos of the guys shooting the TRex. I started to post it a few weeks ago but found you now have to be a member of their forum to view. The vids are great. Another good one they have is called "Don't poke the cat." It's some guy in Africa in a pickup with a big cage on back. Inside is a cheetah. The guy is hanging out of the window with a stick trying to poke the cat so that it will leave the cage. It leaves the cage alright and runs around to the open window and dive in the truck. It's whole upper body is inside the truck with this guy clawing the hell out of him.”