how many guns you got?

“Have the laws governing fully automatic weapons been relaxed? There was a guy at the range shooting full auto last time I was there.”

“SuperT, it’d go more like this for me….

Run Two miles with weapon Holstered at your side....finish run and drop dead…get defribulated...stand (At the range table) and attempt to put 5 of 10 center of mass.....

Also, is there a time limit on that 2 miles? Is an hour unreasonable?”

““DNB do you also teach, or are you some type of LEO, or is it all personal?”

What’s a LEO? It’s personal.

“What course were you taking?”

In Ohio you have to take a basic safety and shooting course to apply for a CCW permit. 10 hours of class time and 2 hours range time. It’s the NRA’s basic pistol class. I think in Indiana you don’t have to do anything to get a permit. Which is why I’m not allowed to carry in Indi because they don’t have the same requirements. I can carry in most other CCW states though.

“I am interested in taking some courses in practical defense situations. You know the saying "shoot more, shoot more often"...”

Get a hold of the NRA. They can get you in touch with a local instructor.”

““Have the laws governing fully automatic weapons been relaxed? There was a guy at the range shooting full auto last time I was there.”

No it hasn't.”

“I don't need any guns. I'm very good at flicking coins with my thumb. I had to register this skill with the government and as of now, it is illegal for me to carry concealed change in my pocket.”

“There was a time limit then, we used the 70 point mark for the two mile run required for the Army PT Test based on the 17-21 year age group, regardless of the age of the actual runner; the maximum time allowed to pass in that age group is currently 15:12, Max is 13:00 even.

We used that requirement because the MINIMUM PT Standards for SF is passing the PT Test at the 17-21 year age group with 240 points regardless of your actual age.....(no less than 70 points in any one event)

http://alguard.state.al.us/20th/qualification.htm

http://www.us-army-info.com/pages/pdfs/PTreq.pdf
last edited: 5/26/06 1:10:37 PM”

“DNB

LEO - Law Enforcement Officer

I see. I wasn't aware of OH carry laws. I just thought if this was some kind of shooting academy you may have a recomendation or favorite. I am a life member of the NRA, and have tought and assisted with some shotgun, hunter ed and archery classes with 4H, and the DNR, for about 12 years but have only recently gotten interested in hand guns. I will check around to see what is in this area.”

“If you use a nuclear device, you don't need to do timed runs to hit specified targets. Guns are so outdated.”

“My Abrams tank is quite capable of those parameters and leaves less mess that nuclear devices. And, you can hunt game with it too.”

“your sarcasm font is broken, but I agree...REALLY.

We have 'em, and it's time we USE them...I will personally renew my offer during Desert Storm:

I volunteer to parachute at night into Downtown Tehran with an M8(SADM) Manpack Nuke.”

“Like, Ohmagawd! Super T is Jack Bauer! LOL!”

“I ain't no martyr sir, nosiree, that thar Nuke done got a TIMER...when a SADM is emplaced and the timer is set, ya run like blazes, keepin' yer head down an' yer feets a movin'!”

“FN five-seveN 5.7x28mm”

“Cats.. i want an FN P90.. for fun.”

“I am shopping for a holster and am not sure which kind to get; inside the waistband or outside the waistband? I’ve tried a Fobus outside the waistband holster and liked the way it fit but an inside the waistband holster is better hidden.

Pros? Cons?”

“holstering...with a Fobus, the weapon can be easily reholstered, with a lightweight inside the waistband holster there is an issue with returning the weapon to it's holster with one hand (the belt collapses the holster as the weapon is withdrawn).

Belt slide holsters are a decent alternative, get one that has an anti print pad, (Basically a nearly round layer of leather that goes between the weapon and the shirt you wear.....)prevents the weapons outline showing through the shirt.”

“I never thought about the issue of reholstering with an inside holster. I'm leaning towards the Fobus because I don't wear a belt 50% of the time and especially in summer.”

“http://www.ktog.org/accessories-holsters.htm

Ignore the first Two or three the links are dead...the rest, starting with Aker are really great holster links for all types of Holsters.....”

“oops, posted this on the NRA thread, meant to post in on this one

Nigal-
jus wondering, do classes like this offer training on how to defuse a situation WITH OUT guns?...like i said, just wondering, i'm by no means an anti gun person...for the most part i like gun laws the way they are i just think that for most of us having a gun for protection just makes an already chaotic situation worse...unless you're a high level exec, cop or public official you have a relatively low chance of being physically assaulted for seemingly no reason...i'm just a regular joe schmo, and if someone broke into my house it would most likely be to steal my stuff, not harm me...if i pulled a gun on him that would just elevate the situation...IMHO nobody's life, even a crook, is worth less than anything in my house...i wouldn't want to kill someone just to keep him from stealing my Daewoo TV, no my backpacking gear, that's another story””

“Exactly Thrifty! This is what the uneducated don’t know. Defending yourself with a firearm is the LAST act in the force continuum. You meet force with like force. In Ohio you must meet three criteria before lethal force can be used. 1) you are reasonably sure you are in danger of having great bodily harm done to you or that your life is in IMMIDIATE danger. 2) You did not start it. (You call someone an ass hole and he comes at you with a bat and you shoot him. You’re at fault.). 3) You must prove that you had no way of avoiding it or escaping the situation. And when defending someone else’s life you must meet the same criteria. Most times the mere presents of a gun will defuse the situation. Let’s face it, a gun has a way of chilling people out.

Also, take the home invasion situation. Everyone thinks of the gun toting cowbow who’s skulking his house after he hears a noise. This is bull crap. The best way to defend yourself in the home is to have a safe room. You lock yourself in this room, call 911 on your cell phone (criminals will cut the phone lines sometimes), and you give verbal warnings and commands from there. Only if that perp comes into your safe room to do you bodily harm do you use your firearm. Some states such as Texas do allow for defending property but I do not agree with this. Let them take whatever they want. You can always replace a TV.

Properly defending yourself begins with knowing how to avoid a violent situation all together. If you go to the post office and there are five gang bangers hanging out in front and you make a good target, what do you do? You go to the post office tomorrow. A person who is properly trained has a much higher level of awareness than the average Joe. Surviving a deadly situation begins with training and education as well as having the means to defend yourself. That is what the NRA does best.”

“i'm having de ja vue(sp)”

“Does anybody carry heat while backpacking?”

“In the winter when we're car camping I sometimes bring those things you shake and squeeze, but haven't used them yet.”

“I believe your home is your castle. I don't believe that you should have to hide in your own home. You would feel violated & your home would NEVER feel the same to you. If everybody hid, more homes would be robbed. Most burglars do-not-want a confrontation. They wait untill you leave.

I believe a motion detector operated video camera is a GREAT tool for catching bad guys.

I don't know about you, but looking at a shotgun would make me back up. A shotgun is VERY intimidating. Bird shot (for the most part)is not lethal. It probably won't go thru the sheet rock walls into your kids or spouses rm. It will probably put the intruder into shock (if forced to shoot)due to the bleeding, but they will be relatively minor wounds.

If someone should venture close enough, then birdshot becomes lethal.

I carry a gun occasionally, depending on the situation. In snake country,(bushwhacking) I'll carry a .410 (over/under)derringer (3" shells) which also chambers .45 long colt. I'll also wear snake chaps & given the opportunity, I will back away.”

“It probably won't go thru the sheet rock walls into your kids or spouses rm.

yea, cause when we're talking about the safty of my wife and kids i want to use words like "probably"

n snake country,(bushwhacking) I'll carry a .410 (over/under)derringer (3" shells) which also chambers .45 long colt.

can you actually hit a snake with a hand gun??!!...i must say, i am impressed”

“thrfty, do you even no what snake shot is for a handgun? If a snake is moving away from you there is no reason to shoot it. If its close enough to strike, then even my blind granny could hit a snake with snake shot.”

“thrfty, do you even no what snake shot is for a handgun?

do, i do not...care to learn me?

i would assume it's like buckshot?, anyway he mentioned nothing about snakeshot in his post ;)
last edited: 5/31/06 6:45:29 AM”

“To anyone with an agenda he didn't, but to anyone who knows why someone would carry a 410 derringer handgun in snake country he did.

I guess I wasn't really asking if you knew what snake shot is. I should have been more specific. Perhaps I was wrong but your comment "can you actually hit a snake with a hand gun??!!...i must say, i am impressed” and the gist of your other comment seemed to be a bit condescending. Which is uncalled for considering you didn't know what the hell you were talking about.”

“easy killer...ouch...i think you might be barking up the wrong tree here...i'm not trying to take your or anyone else's guns away, read my first post...i'm speaking from a strictly personal point of view...the risks far out way the probability that i might be in a life threatening situation...to ME, my tv nor anything else in my house is worth another humans life, even a crooks and i'm not someone special that someone would want to kill me...and as far as physical violence goes, and you can call me a #&%!$, but i'll take a good beating rather than to actually kill someone...that's just me talking ;)

...and i usually am a smart @ss but WAS being serious about the snake comment...it seemed like something that would be hard to do to me

LOL, that's funny...i've never been accused of having an "agenda" before...does that make me an activist now...i've always wanted to be SOMETHING, even if it is an activist ;)
last edited: 5/31/06 7:05:46 AM”

“Try here for the truth about shotguns and walls....

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot14.htm”

“One of the things you must do when you decide to carry or use a gun for protection is you have to mentally run through about any situation that you may encounter. You have to think, “OK, if I go into a 7/11 and it gets held up what will I do if ‘X’ happens?”. Same for the home. You have to know where the safe fire lanes are in relation to others in the house as well as external walls. Also involved with this safety aspect is ammo choice. A high quality Hi-shock round will go in, go splat and stop. I would venture to say a high frangible round would go splat before carrying through a wall with any velocity.

Yes shot guns are intimidating but for my personal choice a hand gun is the best. It is not as unwieldy as a long gun, you are able to handle it with one hand which leaves your other hand free for things like CALLING 911, or closing and locking a door.

Stalking around your house only puts me in unneeded danger. I am the protector. If I go down what of the wife and kids then? Surviving a break in is able SURVIVAL. Not saving your stuff.


If someone breaks in, lock your door, call the police on a cell and have a front door key on a glow stick. Call the police, hold your ground and wait for the professionals. Throw the lighted glow stick out the window so the cops can enter and clear the house. There is no room for cowboys in the real world. And of course the best protection against home invasion is make your house as secure as possible.”

“You have to think, “OK, if I go into a 7/11 and it gets held up what will I do if ‘X’ happens?”.

see, i just have a different mind set...when i go to the 7/11 i'm thinking "blue icee or red?" and is the jack @ss behind the counter gonna screw up my change again?”

“LOL! Even if you don't carry these things are good to think about. It’s not paranoia as I’m sure Y2 will say. It’s about knowing what you’ll do before it even happens. The few seconds it takes to decide what you’ll do could save your life.”

“The few seconds it takes to decide what you’ll do could save your life.

again, it's like you're reading my mind, only with icees...it's like, i start pouring the blue and it's all slow motion and i yell out one of those slow motion "noooooooos" like in the movies but it's too late, i've already poored the blue and i wanted red”

“I can also see you standing in the doorway of Donados during a hold up, “Man, what do I do? DO I try to grab my pie and run? Run now? Hey, I wonder if I’ll get my pizza for free now?” BANG! “Damn…””

“You're a good representative of responsible gun owners, Nigal. I agree with your take on home invasion and situational awareness and avoidance. That's the nice thing about the gun debate: when defensive gun use is explained in reasonable, logical, emotion-free terms, arguments like Y2's "paranoid gun owner" fall apart.

Regarding shotguns, I think there's a tendency for people to buy one and then never seek training because "you don't have to aim a shotgun", (at home-invasion distances, of course, the spread of the shot is negligable) or "the sound of the action will scare away a burglar." That's just giving a false sense of security. And then there's the issues of weapon retention and wieldiness. That said, though, proper training will more than compensate for any disadvantages of a shotgun, and will end up making the shotgun (arguably) the better defensive weapon. IF YOU SEEK PROFESSIONAL TRAINING! That said, I, too, rely on my pistol for in-home protection. As lousy as a pistol is at stopping people (compared to a longarm), it's what I train with, and I simply don't intend on seeking training with a shotgun!

Also, I don't think you'll find anybody with a decent knowledge of defensive shotgun techniques who would recommend birdshot. #4 buckshot seems to be in vogue right now.”

“http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

Read the conclusions at the end of the photo description of shotgun rounds...”

“I can also see you standing in the doorway of Donados during a hold up, “Man, what do I do? DO I try to grab my pie and run? Run now? Hey, I wonder if I’ll get my pizza for free now?” BANG! “Damn…””
DeadNBloated

i'd stick my hand in my pocket all "fake gun style" and pretend i was with the robber and demand all the pizza they had...and if i got shot in the process that's just one of the risks you take for THE BEST DAMN PIZZA ON THE PLANET
last edited: 5/31/06 8:34:51 AM”

“I liked conclusion #4 Super T...

4. I "racked" the shotgun several times during the tests, and no bystanders lost control of their bowels.
Conclusion: Racking a shotgun will not make the bad guy faint.

I agree with his final thoughts...

"A policeman told of seeing a guy shot at close range with a load of 12 gauge birdshot, and was not even knocked down. He was still walking around when the EMTs got there. It was an ugly, shallow wound, but did not STOP the guy. And that is what we want... to STOP the bad guy from whatever he is doing. To do this, you must have a load that will reach the vitals of the bad guy. Birdshot will not do this.

In fact, tests have shown that even #4 Buckshot lacks the necessary penetration to reach the vital organs. Only 0 Buck, 00 Buck, and 000 Buck penetrate enough to reach the vital organs.

Unless you expect to be attacked by little birds, do not use birdshot. Use 00 Buck. It will do the job."
last edited: 5/31/06 8:45:10 AM”

““That's just giving a false sense of security. And then there's the issues of weapon retention and wieldiness.”

In our classes we did a lot of weapon retention drills. The stuff you see in the movies where the guy holds someone at gun point with the gun at his head is a good way to lose your gun. We shot from the waist at 4’ and were taught to change the aim by rotating the hips. Fun drill but it does put a pounding on your hand.”

“Well I went holster shopping last night and split the difference. I bought an Uncle Mike’s Sidekick inside the waist holster and a Fobus. The Sidekick is pretty comfortable and I can see using it the most. I’d use the Fobus with a jacket or bulky sweater but with the untucked t shirt it’s not too concealing. I spent like $40 for both. I'll probably get one of the Gelcos or Bianchi later on.”

“First...um there is a small physics problem with the old 'blow them away" idea. For a weapon to truly knock a target down it would have to impart the same amount of force upon leaving the weapon...the Mythbusters did a great special on this. The reason people fall down when shot is ...we see it in the movies. I have a close friend who was hit with 2 .50 cal rounds in Vietnam, still ran 200 yards carrying his best friend. Granted he was gravely wounded but he was not KNOCKED DOWN.

As for weapons in the home. I try my DOGS, LIGHT and NOISE, your professional burlar hates those three things. Now if that fails my advice is "IF YOU DRAW A WEAPON YOU MUST BE READY TO DEAL WITH THE RESULTS OF KILLING SOMEONE."

Sorry but this is the real truth to ownership of a weapon, ARE YOU WILLING TO TAKE A HUMAN LIFE? Years ago in another city I rode one of the tough districts, the most violent and harshest reality there was. Our Chief had a strict policy, if we drew a weapon there better be a LIFE OR DEATH situation. But if we drew he backed up 100%.
My partner made the comment one night on a armed intruder search. We both drew our weapons and entered the structure Marion looked at me and said<'DAMN someone is gonna die here tonight."

That hit home. I know too dam^ many people who have a weapon to "scare" someone.”

“Very good thoughts XL. Many times a person in a stress situation will not even realize they are shot. This is why killing someone is NOT the object give of defending one’s self. It’s all about stopping them. Anyone who speaks so flippantly about “taking down the bad guy” probably should not carry because they are showing a lack of reasonable humanity. I do not think I would hesitate in shooting someone if my life was in danger but it would be very hard to live with and would probably haunt me for the rest of my life. But it beats being dead. I felt great sympathy for that ex-marine in Atlanta who was forced to kill that teen.”

“That’s a good point about knocking down the target XL. It just doesn’t happen. Last hunting season my cousin shot a deer that was about 30 to 40 yards away with a .44 carbine. The bullet went straight through the deer shattering the heart. The deer ran a good 100 to 150 yards before it fell.”

“Hey Nigal!
I carry a Fobus paddle holster. I really like it, but if you are worried about your gun keeping it's finish, I would not recomend a hard (kydex) holster. In the last year my holster has, in spots, smoothed out the non-glare finish on the top of the slide of my Springfield. Also it will wear on the trigger guard where the holster "clips" onto the gun. A carry gun should never be intended as a show piece, and you seem to be intelligent enough to know that. I just don't want you to be surprised if, say, your blued pistol suddenly starts showing some clean steel.

I was skeptical at first about a paddle holster, but now I think it is the greatest. It stays in place weather my shirt is tucked in or not, and makes going into certain places (i.e. gov't. bldgs) easy because you can just slide the holster and all out, and lock it in the glove box. Extremely convenient.

I do not carry IWB because of the "crush factor". However my dad has a leather IWB holster, and it does not seem to flatten out like the Mikes will.”

“teehee.. needs more cowbell
”

“I’ve been subtly warming the wife up to the idea of me getting another gun. I’m very torn as to what to get though. On one hand I’d love to have a .45 compact custom like a Kimber or a Springfield for concealed carry. But on the other hand I’d love to get a M4A1 but that’s a bit impractical. On the OTHER hand I’d like a Thompson Encore for hunting. They’re all about the same money.”

“Cool!!!
The Govt is looking at bringing back the .45 as standard issue! They are taking entries from Glock, Taurus, FNH, Para, Springfield, H&K, S&W, Berretta, and Sig. They finally figured out that a bad guy can still get up and shoot you after being plugged w. a 9mm.
They've got some pretty tough stipulations though. Any body read this article in Rifleman?
Doesn't look like the 1911 will qualify though. :-(”