Razing Appalachia

“I thought this was maybe like "Raising Arizona."

OK, sorry to get off-topic on my own little joke!! phhhhhhhht!”

“back atcha... phhhhht! LOL


(what happened to that phreakin' phont?)”

“coal mining can be an ugly thing indeed. will that only be on in SC tilt?”

“Ta-Da!

Tuesday at 9 PM on the Arkansas Educational Television Network, right after "Vikings".”

“And a story from 1999.”

“Cheaper.....faster

Industry can be like whores.....”

“"I still feel that it is impossible to have either strip mining or mountaintop removal and have adequate reclamation, which I characterize as putting lipstick on a corpse."

Ken Hechler
West Virginia Secretary of State”

“vikings!?!? i hate minnasota. thanks for the link though. nova looks good too....lincoln's secret weapon.”

“Sounds like an interesting documentary. Thanks for the heads up.”

“Vikings?

The Purple People Eaters?”

“Fran Tarkington flashbacks, no doubt.”

“""I still feel that it is impossible to have either strip mining or mountaintop removal and have adequate reclamation, which I characterize as putting lipstick on a corpse."

Ken Hechler
West Virginia Secretary of State"


I agree--kind of hard to reclaim a mountain top that no longer exists.
There was a fight back in 98 here in Kentucky to stop strip mining on Black Mountain, the tallest mountain in the state.”

“do they call it grey mountain now?”

“I'm almost scared to ask... who won?”

“I'll be honest Tilt, I don't know. I wasn't the least bit interested in environmental issues at the time, and since then I've not looked into it. Kentucky being a major coal producing state, some sort of "compromise" was probably reached, influenced by the deep pockets of a coal company--but that's pure pessimistic speculation on my part.

Strat--I think it's called Black molehill now.”

“I found this just on a cursory search: Black Mountain”

“I'll see if I can find a list of state highpoints, and see if it's still on there.

Well, according to these folks, it's still there.

I didn't get into any environmental issues either before I got into THIS hobby. Back in those days, it was all beer, girls, music and 8-ball (Not Necessarily In That Order, <G>)!”

“Yeah I just found the site you linked right after I posted. Apparently the state bought the mineral and timber rights in 2000, so it should be safe. I was in the middle of a job change then, so I must not have paid any attention to the news.
Same here with the interest in the environment. I've only been backpacking about 2 years now.”

“The posted article went well beyond the reality of coal mining in KY and WV. The coal mining described was about right for the way it was done in the 60s and even into the early 70s. I worked in one of the larger mining engineering companies in east KY, my father was the owner. I have been on hundreds of strip mines, both contour and mountain top removal, and in nearly as many deep mines (underground ). The legislation regulating coal mines is now so burdensome that 90% of the mining companies had to quit ruining the economies of these areas and the ones remaining aren't making the killing they describe. The rock to coal ratio is very high now and the regulatory issues are huge. There is no widespread problem with modern coal mining, reclamation done well returns the land to a condition better than it was before and in the case of mountain top jobs, actually useable. Few realize just how little flat land exists in these areas. There would be NO room for any industry, airports, etc without the land created by mountaintop removal. Anyway, the article proves you shouldn't believe everything you read. BTW the guy doesn't even know enough of his subject to know what the "YUKES" are. Coal is removed from pits with a large front end loader. and loaded into a dump bed truck (either a tandem axle or tractor trailer rig). the Yukes are from the company name of a manufacturer of enormous (like 120 ton capacity) "rock trucks" which is what most miners call them. They are green, CATs are yellow like most earth moving equip. They haul rock and soil to the spoil fill area to get it out of the way. Most later has to be brought back to backfill the area.
I do environmnetal engineering now but though it is messy I'm not ashamed of my coal mining roots.”

“The 1973 National Scout Jamboree was held in Moraine State Park PA. It was reclaimed from coal mining and oil drilling. It was a beautiful park with a several thousand-acre lake and numerous hiking trails. You would never know it's past from looking at it.”

“Yukes= Euclids, the brand name.

Mtnman--ever go through Letcher County? I grew up there. My dad worked for a coal company for about 22 years. I'd give anything if I could talk my wife into moving back. I think the coal mining history is interesting, but I hate to see strip mining.”

“I worked in breathitt and Knott (whew those are rough places, at least they were 20 years ago). I lived in Floyd Co and mostly worked in Pike, Johnson, Martin, Magoffin, Martin and Lawrence. I believe I worked on a job or two in Letcher but can't think of which ones. I remember the first Euclid 120 I ever saw, wow. That was in the day when a D-9 was as big as dozers got, the tires on a Yuke 120 were about 12 feet high. I saw an F-250 one backed over, looked like a beer can crushed.”

“mining has rarely left the environment in a better condition, morraine state park is the extreme exception. few mining companies effectively reclaim mined areas like they should.

take a drive through western pennsylvania, where THOUSANDS of miles of streams and rivers are lifeless (and orange) from acid mine drainage.

my grandfather mined anthracite here in NEPA; considering the sickening environmental abuse of past mining operations, i understand why there are stringent regulations now.”

“They actually mined acid?

Far out man!”

“no, groundwater seeping through mines becomes highly acidic as it absorbs oxidized heavy metals exposed during the mining operation. this acidic water then enters the watershed.”

“who knows, drink enough of this water, you may start tripping, or have acid reflux.”

“Haha this is like a family reunion Mtnman! Some of the older State Troopers I work with used to call Breathitt County "Bloody Breathitt."
I played a lot of basketball in Knott County. You were there when I was growing up. My dad worked for Southeast Coal Co. till they went bankrupt after losing a lawsuit to Ky. Utilities. Yeah, those D9s used to be the king of the hill, and the big 988 front end loader was top of the heap until the 992 rolled in. Oh well, now I'm just rambling.”

“i've been to hazard and harlan, now there's a different country. despite the mining, there are many beautiful places in eastern KY.”

“Yeah, Letcher county is between the two. Hazard was the nearest "big town" we could go to for shopping. For those of you who are unfamiliar with the area, by big town I mean over 3,000 people.
I love it back there.
I'm such a hillbilly/redneck, lol.”

“Last reminder, <G>....

Tonight's the Night (check local listings).”

“Yep those were the days. We've definiately been up some of the same hills and hollows. Great Lake Dewey was our weekend skiing destination, and yeah 3,000 people is a big town, PigglyWiggly and all. I've been on a D-11N now and its incredible how much material these things shove. they make a D-9G look like a tinkertoy. I've ridden to the top of the highwall in the bucket of a 992 or a 475 Michigan numerous times, there's something OSHA would freak over now.
To those that mis-understand. There was definiately a period when mining really did rape the land. The theory back then wa sto shoot (meanig blast) rock as far as you can so you don't have to push it over the hill. I've seen the mine put off a shot that broke windows for half a mile then have a guy with a check book at the bottom of the haul road to write checks to everyone that had a complaint. Those days were long ago. If you let a shot get away or do not reclaim to the exact letter of the law, you forfeit bond, i.e. loose your butt on the job. Reclamation now provides better habitat ( Post May 3, 1978 anyway) than ever before. I give you open deer seasons and turkey seasons in counties previously always closed as an example.”

“If you're ever back this way, we should go try the new Pine Mountain Trail. They're opening up new sections all the time. It looks like it will be awesome. I think they're wanting 128 miles out of it. I haven't done any of it yet. I live in the Lexington area now, so I usually hit Red River Gorge or Big South Fork, which I tried out for the first time a few months ago, but I'm going to get back home to try the PMT.”

“it was a pretty good show. thanks tilt.

mtman, i bet you're current job is very interesting...”

“I used to help design and work on changing farms into subdivisions and shopping/industrial parks and mountains into mines. I'm not ashamed of mining and development has to be done (btw a lot of the stuff on NPR's mining exposee last night was bunk that related more to the mining of 50 years ago than to modern times and one woman ranting on there was certifiable)buttttt I've found I prefer working to heal a site that's an environmental mess. Now I mostly do remediation on train wreck sites and the like.”

“You ever do any work with the RJ Corman company? They're a big raliroad outfit here in the town I live in now.”

“Do you mean a literal train wreck or an environmental train wreck?”

“Both- I cover environmental issues related to derailments and spills for a major eastern railroad. 24-hour call deal.”

“Big one near Golden, Co. today. Coal train, ironically, given the subject of the thread.”

“"Both- I cover environmental issues related to derailments and spills for a major eastern railroad. 24-hour call deal."
mtnman


do you think you could do anything to reclaim my kids' rooms? talk aboutcher train wreck! what's you pager number?”

“There was a really nasty one last year in eastern Tennessee, too, wasn't there?”