I may stop using empty soda bottles

“As if the news I posted on the water purification thread wasn't enough, I got the following from a link (http://www.irc.nl/source/item.php/1253)in todays "health letter" that I have an email subscription to.

Canada/USA: re-using water bottles may be a health risk

Dangerous bacteria and potentially toxic plastic compounds have been found in the types of water bottles typically reused in classrooms and workplaces. A study of 76 water bottles at a Calgary elementary school in Canada found bacterial contamination in children's bottles that would prompt health officials to issue boil-water advisories had the samples come from a tap [1]. Total coliform exceeded water quality guideline values in 13.3% of 75 samples, while faecal coliform and total heterotrophic criteria were exceeded in 8.9% (of 68 samples) and 64.4% (of 76 samples) respectively. The bacteria likely came from children's hands and mouths over time as they repeatedly used the same bottles without washing them or allowing them to dry.

A US study suggests the kind of thorough washing that could kill bacteria might make the bottles unsafe in another way [2]. Frequent washing might accelerate the break-down of the plastic, potentially causing chemicals to leach into the water. Preliminary research at the University of Idaho found that with repeated use, toxic chemical compounds such as DEHA, can migrate out of plastic bottles made from polyethylene terephthalate (PET). This contradicts earlier research at EAWAG, Swiss Federal Institute for Environmental Science and Technology, which found no indication for migration of possible photoproducts or additives from PET bottles into water [3]. The use of PET bottles for solar water disinfection (SODIS) is widely promoted for developing countries.


Web address: Solar Water Disinfection (SODIS), http://www.sodis.ch

[1] Oliphant, J.A., Ryan, M.C. and Chu, A. (2002). Bacterial water quality in the personal water bottles of elementary students. Canadian Journal of Public Health ; vol. 93, no. 5 ; p. 366-367. http://www.cpha.ca/shared/cjph/archives/abstr02.htm#5:366-67
[2] Lilya, D. (2001). Analysis and Risk Assessment of Organic Chemical Migration from Reused PET Plastic Bottles. MSc Thesis Environmental Engineering, University of Idaho - Environmental Science Program. http://www.riskworld.com/Abstract/2001/SRAam01/ab01aa189.htm (abstract)
[3]Wegelin, M. ... [et al.] (2000). Does sunlight change the material and content of polyethylene terephthalate (PET) bottles?. Aqua ; vol, 50 ; p. 125-135. http://www.sodis.ch/files/aqua00.pdf [PDF file, 8.1 MB]”

“Or maybe I just need to find out if soda bottles are made with PET.”

“What aobut pliable Nalgene bottles and Platy bags? Are they made of a different plastic?”

“I guess this means that reusing gatorade bottles is a "no, no!" Drat!”

“It means you need to wash your dishes. A Nalgene bottle will have the same level of bacteria over time.”

“I'm with Nowslimmer, in that I use the wide mouth 22 oz gatorade bottles for water, for everyday use. They go in the dishwasher after each use, but if they are made out of PET, this sounds like it may not be good.”

“pedxing, you keep ruining everyone's Fun With Bacteria!
;-)

hey, how do you guys wash your Nalgenes? i once washed mine with regular dish detergent and the taste of it stayed forever...even though i rinsed it really well! since then, i don't think i've actually washed it. wheeeee!”

“We just run ours through the dishwasher or wash them by hand with all the other dishes. I've never had a problem with them not rinsing out like that. A vinegar rinse might help that.”

“Tarpy peed in it.”

“how do you know? he won't even let ME watch him pee!

LMAO! okay, skullmaster, i shall try that. :-)”

“I wash mine by hand. Nalgene bottles, that is. Never had a problem with lingering tastes, but I usually just drink Gatorade out of them.”

“I would also watch out for the pthalenes from soda bottles. They are not intended for re-use and so the plastic they are made out of is allowed a higher pthalene level than other plastics used for beverage containers (like water bladders). They are released upon washing, etc. Negative health effects from chronic pthalene exposure has not been definitively determined but neither has it been disproven. Until it's known for sure one way or the other, I'm not taking any unnecessary chances.”

“Likewise. I don't want to die prematurely in my youth.”

“That's funny!




When my Grandmother turned 80 I told her she ought to eat whatever she wants. Once your DNA is that old it makes it's own cancer.

I don't think she appreciated my intent.”

“I re-use a soda bottle and have not seen any data that would cause me to stop.

Cola's (Coke/Pepsi) are corrosive and will take the paint off a tractor. It sits in these bottles for days if not weeks before being sold and drank.

Water is a lot less reactive than cola's. And will be in the water bottle for about 1 day before drinking. I think the water contact time with all those bad plastic chemicals is insignificant compared to drinking the original soda/pop.

Reasonable washing should remove both bad bugs, and leaching chemicals.

Most of the water bottle problems seem to come from the persons (lack of) hand washing after going pottie.

I give my water bottle a good wash before going out on a trip and after I return home. I have not experienced any problems in many years of backpacking.

The 2 extra fingers on each hand are also useful for campsite tasks ;)) LOL.”

“Glad I'm not the only one that happens to.

My elderly neighbor was taken away in an ambulance the other day, while I was at work. He ended up being okay, he had just been overcome by paint fumes, but before we knew that, I said to my wife, "I guess we'll be getting new neighbors soon." She looked at me and said, "I know what you mean, but don't you think it's bad to put it that way?"

The truth sucks sometimes.”

“Right. I was serious, skullcap. Now you have me feeling depressed.

It's time for the pool hall. Today could mark my last game! And just when I thought that I was playing better.”

“Manuka: The point about the corrosiveness of cola is a good one. Maybe I won't have to change my ways.

Skullcap: What do you think of that argument. Would the pthalenes be a problem with washing and not with colas? Or do I need to worry about the pthalenes in my cola? Or am I probably OK using my soda bottles? They are so much lighter and cheaper than nalgene. (I also take wide mouthed gatorade type bottles sometimes)”

“I look at it this way: everybody's gotta die of something.”

“I re-use pop bottles - but I usually only bring them on one trip - then I dispose of them
dawn”

“I wonder if chemical disinfection has an impact on chemicals leaching from the plastic.”

“I've been washing out my bottles and plats with a weak clorox solution. Get it to strong and I'll burn the skin on your hands.”

“The phthalates are organic chemicals (organic = made up of carbon molecules) that are not really very soluable in water. Therefore, they are not soluable in an acidic water solution (that's what the cola is). Also, acids tend to break down organic chemicals.

The saliva in your mouth is an organic solvent. It dissolves organic chemicals. Backwash anybody? Also, dish detergent (any kind) is also capable of dissolving many organic chemicals, that's how it works to clean. Combine that with the mechanical agitation of washing which tends to increase the leaching action.

Now compound those factors multiple times with repeated use...




I don't know how much of the phthalates leach into soda. I don't know how much of the phthalates leach into the beverage when soda bottles are re-used. I don't know what health effects they do or do not have on people. But I don't re-use soda bottles.”

“In 37 years I've drang all sorts of disgusting things out of all sorts disgusting containers.............I'm still here so they can't be all that bad because I'm not that lucky.”

“People have said the same thing about smoking. That's not exactly conclusive scientific proof.”

“My Mom said when she was in Med School they put a 1-inch cube of beef into a beaker of CocaCola... and a few weeks later it was Gone, LOL

I only re-use the gatorade bottles a few times... <gulp>


Platypus FAQ (care & feeding, etc.)”

“SS, Chlorine Bleach is what we use at the Red Cross to disinfect our manikans. We use 1/4 cup or 4 oz. to a Gallon of water. This is a very strong solution and people tend to complain about it burning at first, so I would recomend 1 oz.like the Platypus site suggests for their bladders and hoses. Don't know about the water or soda bottles, but when I use something like that I only use it for the day then I pitch it for recycling. Just my 2 cents worth.”

“Why not just use a bicycle bottle? They are light, tough and meant to be reused. You can buy them with a wide mouth for easy cleaning and with a screw top or snap top. I put boiling water in mine in the winter. They get soft when you do that, but they do work well year round. I'd take these over a soda bottle anyday.”

“This has all been very interesting. I think it should be pointed out why people, such as myself and SS reuse bottles. It's not because we're saving a nickel. It's because both of us are ounce counting dorks. For lightweight afficianados if you can cut the weight of something in half then you've accomplished something. If you do it for 5-8 items then you're talking pounds. Gatorade bottles weigh half as much as Nalgenes. That's why I swapped to gatorade bottles. Sounds like I need to consider going backwards and giving them up. Just my 2 cents.”

“Dayhiker: Weight is exactly why I use the soda bottles - even lighter than Gatorade and like you I'm rethinking.”

“It seems that the thing to do would be to reuse soda/gatorade bottles for a single trip only. Pitch them after the trip and get new ones before the next trip. I only take about 6 trips a year so that wouldn't be a big deal to me. For people that go real often it would be a pain to remember to save bottles each time for trip use.”

“The easiest thing might be to just buy 2 bottles of gatorade and let that be what you drink the first day. Continue to use that bottle through the trip and then pitch at the end.”

“For all those out there counting ounces, I just weighed a 16 ounce soda bottle at 1.5 ounces. My bicycle bottle weighed 2.75 ounces in the same capacity. It's not that much more for the advantages it has over a soda bottle.”

“My prejudice on bike bottles is they leak when upside down (or even sideways when full).

I agree with you on the short trips dayhiker. I'm wondering about the long trips (like 10 days or more) - I suppose you could just switch bottles when you resuplly. Your gatoraide bottles are probably better than my soda bottles.”

“Sirpete had me laughing.... he also reminded me of a joke.

A guy is talking on his cell phone while leaning out over the rail at the Empire State Building, when he leans too far and falls. He keeps talking on the way down. His friend, on the other end of the phone asks him what the fall is like. When he answers, he is about at the 20th floor: "So far, so good!" is what he shouts.”

“Getting two uses out of something, then pitching it, is better than only getting one. Or you could use it until it starts to get a little funky, then toss it. Or recycle it, if you can.”

“It's funy that water bottles are plastic.....hummmm. I reuse my "plastic" water bottle everyday at work, refilling it on a daily basis from the water cooler. Doesn't seem to have any affect on me yet.(as I keel over in my chair -LOL)”

“The reasons Dayhiker, Pedxing and Bitpusher have given are exactly the reasons why I have habitually re-used soda and gatorade bottles. They're lightweight, easy to re-use and I'd rather do that than see them end up in a landfill.

So now that I don't re-use them I find myself not buying them in the first place. So if I also thought I was using them to save money, I was kidding myself.”

“Personally, I just suffer and bear the extra weight of a Lexan Nalgene. Mix my Gatorade up on the spot. I used empty water or sodea bottles a couple of times, but found it to be inconvenient, even with the weight savings.”

“Yeah Bit, that's what I started doing too.”

“The bike bottles from Nalgene don't leak. The one I have from Specialized hasn't leaked either. The snap top type might leak though, I only use those for riding.”

“Another benefit of the Lexan Nalgene: When the bear picks it up in his mouth and walks away, the Lexan Nalgene is neither punctured by the bear's fangs, nor does it break when the bear drops it on the rock.”

“bitpusher - WHAT? You're feeding the bears! You just leave things out for the animals?”

“It happened when Father Goose and I were at Low Gap last October, the night before we met you at Blue Mountain. Everything else had been hung, but a Nalgene got left on the picnic table. Low Gap's problem bear came by, smelled the tuna on the Nalgene, and picked up, but quickly determined it wasn't edible.”

“Guess I forgot the story. I knew you were a more careful bp'er.

Bears can be gentle. I saw one walk away with someone's stove at Tricorner Knob Shelter. It dropped the stove undamaged about 30 feet away. Probably told you about it. But the way my memory is, or isn't!

And my typing Deep Creek instead of Big Creek this morning! Maybe I was bounced a little too hard on the map mat last night. The instructor did put a stripe on my belt during class. (A minor advancement) Said he wants to promote me up to another color belt before my next bp'ing trip in a few weeks. Also, he told me to work real hard on three wrist locks. They are very powerful techniques for disabling an opponent quickly and easily. I'm having a ball. I never guessed life could be so enjoyable at 70.”

“We knew about the bear and hung everything on the cable system, including our packs. But never in a million years thought the bear would be attracted to a nalgene bottle. It snuffled around our water filters too, but left them alone.”

“If it went after the tuna smell on the bottle I can't help but wander about the hand that put the tuna smell on the bottle to begin with. Neither of you boys are nicknamed "Lefty" are you?”

“Apparently the bear isn't that bold yet. And our hands probably smelled like campfire anyway.”