military packs

“How many frugal types use military surplus packs ?”

“Sure I use one, but only because I am in the National Guard. Good night, those things kill my hips and back. IMO, here are the detractors to the ALICE Pack:
1. The hip belt does not gently rest the load on the hips, it cuts into the hips and leaves bruises.
2. No sternum strap, the shoulder straps are always sliding out toward my shoulders, this sucks.
3. Heavy, I am pretty sure that the aluminum frame is filled with lead.
4. Not big enough.
5. When I set it down, it always falls over.
I wish the Army would catch up with the times and issue some modern gear. Don't get me wrong, the outerwear is great, but the 'camping' gear sucks. The tents, packs, and stoves could all use some modernization.”

“Seems like someone posted something on a thread about the army improving the basic pack. I could be wrong though.”

“A.L.I.C.E is on wonderland ;-)”

“oppps I meant "in wonderland"”

“There is a new pack design that looks pretty good, but most units still are not getting it issued, and in my unit even if I purchased the thing I could not use it because of the uniformity issue.
Am I turning into a whiney soldier or what??? After 17 years in, I am just waiting for retirement, but it would still be nice to retire in a commfy backpack!”

“I use mine for colder trips when I need to bring more stuff. I also bought aftermarket shoulder straps with sternum strap, as well as an aftermarket hipbelt. Wears like a champ now.”

“The A.L.I.C.E. pack is very durable, but a real torture rack.
It does not hug the back and when loaded causes the poor grunt to lean forward.

In the late eighties the Tenth Mountain Infantry were issued Lowe packs.
These have a detachable top pack to be used as a combat pack.
They are internal frame packs and do hug the back but there were complaints about lack of ventilation to the back.
There is an integral mesh vest with ammo pouches along the front.
This is much better than the WW II era pistol belt with box-shaped ammo pouches at the front of the waist(each holds three thirty-round magazines).

I once slipped in the snow landing on butt while carrying ALL my stuff.
I landed with my legs straight out in a sitting position.
My thigh shoved one of the loaded ammo pouches up under my ribs, bruising or cracking the bottom left rib.
OUCH motherpussbucket!
But I didn't let go of my rifle!”

“I used to love the military packs, but then I hadnt try anything civilian. The civilian packs are much better. The biggest problem with the military packs are the hip belts. They suck. You end up using more of your back to carry then weight.”

“That sounds like it hurt, Tom!

I carried an Alice for a couple of years when I was a broke college student. (guy gave me a frame for the pack so it was convenient).

Hiked many miles in that thing and boy was it uncomfortable. But it always worked and never failed in the field...”

“I think those doggy things were made to be air-dropped........look out below!

Yow!
I felt like Apollo Creed after Rocky worked on his ribs.”

“We passed a couple of guys on the AT a couple of years ago who said they were testing upgrades to the Alice. They said the new ones sucked too.

Tom's right about the posture thing. We were on fairly level ground and they were both stooped forward.”

“Never in the military, but my son's friend had one on a hike with us once. I thought is was way too heavy and uncomfortable. We had to put padding between him and the pack and keep readjusting on the trail.”

“I was considering getting an alice pack for short hikes but after reading this thread I have reconsidered. I spent seven plus years in the military and don't remember how uncomfortable those packs were. My entire military career was uncomfortable so I guess that's why I don't remember.”

“the A.L.I.C.E. system is supposed to be replaced by a new setup called M.O.L.L.E. though only leg units will use it, its not durable enough to parachute.


I used to use a Lowe military pack that was nice, but heavy at like 7# and huge 6500 cui.”

“I've got one of those Lowe built packs I scored at a church sale for $5, it's kinda heavy, about 6 pounds, but plenty of space inside and more than enough straps and pckets on the outside, plus intrnal pull straps inside(nice) to keep the load tight and supported.Ruggeder built than the commercial pack, so that's much of the weight difference, plus an extra heavy coating and the hipbelt is extra thick too, and the belt even has leg loops with their own storage pockets,, nothing I've seen on the commercial market quite like it, but it's way better than the alice. Mine has the ventilation pads for the back like the commercial Lowe packs, Tom, does yours? if not, that could be why yours gets so warm.Not bad, but I stick with my 11/2#frame pack for most things,, gettin too old to carry extra weight I don't need to.”

“Military gear is #&%!$.

All it does is give me more respect (and symapthy) for the soldiers who have to work with that crap and their ability to get their job done.”

“I hiked with one once.........once.”

“Even with a modern pack the load would be uncomfortable with all the crap they made us carry. Pack, web gear, helmet, ammunition, rifle, flak jacket, mopp gear, etc.”

“I don't think it's possible to make that load comfortable.”

“During my time working for my Uncle,I never once had a pck that could have been described as comfy. My goal in packing was being able to tolerate the pain. The worst was when the two brass clips that held the rear of the pitol belt to the harness would rub two quarter sized raw spots on your center lower back. After a few days they were miserable. My biggest gripe was that we werent allowed to wear a hipbelt (they were actually removed to prevent being tempted) due to the fact taht if we had to drop our packs suddenly in an ambush or the like we would be slowed down too much.
My record for a large ALICE pack was 105 or so pounds,we did 22 miles in Nevada in 2 days with those loads. 40% plus of my Battalion had feet that were hammered pretty bad. Those missions put you in the hurt locker for a while.

There is so much great gear out there. I wish that the Army would contract more experimental packs from the big boys. High-tech stuff is neat but if your grunts are in misery from poorly fitted packs they are that much less effective.”

“another one of the problems with the lowe pack is finding a pack whith aluminum stays that are not bent into all kinds of intresting & uncomfortable shapes... The military offers little to no advise to soldiers on how to care for a pack.”

“So, am I tougher than you girls, or just a glutton for punishment?”

“Currahee, you are a glutton for punishment LOL. I told myself when I got out that I would never have an uncomfortable pack...”

“I bought the aftermarket shoulder straps and hipbelt and it made all the difference in the world. Of course, it NEVER sees the 100-120 lb load it did back in the day either.”

“It's that big green monster on your back. The ALICE packs are horrible. I would have shot mine if the rules of engagement had allowed it. Anyone who has ever had to wear one on even a five mile hike should have been awarded a purple heart. Ultrapecker was right- (shiver)- Imagine a decent backpack, internal frame, not too heavy, very ergonomically designed- Now throw in your military issued tent (shelter half, tent poles, stakes, sleeping pad- Total weight, approx. 480 pounds, oh and keep in mind that this is only HALF a tent) Throw in two or three days worth of BDU's (The winter ones were real heavy- I was surprised to find out they're not bullet proof, another 65 pounds or so) Military issue mummy bag (Actually pretty warm! Weighs only 140 pounds!) A second pair of boots gets thrown into your pack too, of course- (Picture it- After a gruelling twenty mile hike, you reach into your pack for some camp shoes and come out with the same damn monsters that have been blistering your blistered blisters all day long. Hey, at least these ones are dry though. Weight- 40 pounds. Per boot.) Then, you have to put in all the other crap they put on the packing list, and this isn't even counting the stuff you have to wear outside the pack (765 pounds), throw in some MRE's, (More Rotatorcuff Endangerers) and you're ready to hike. Total weight, 42,015 pounds. Sure, the math doesn't add up, but once you figure the weight of the pack itself, the fact that you're carrying enough water that if you tripped in the Sahara it'd lose it's desert status, and the fact that your head automatically fills with concrete once you get to basic training, that accounts for the rest of the weight. Did I mention that when you're issued the pack, they give you the small one, and then you have to buy the external frame yourself? Oops, we just reach 44,015 pounds. There is an option though- You can go light in the army. I drove a thirty two thousand pound personnel carrier for about a year- Carried my pack quite nicely.”

“Years ago I bought the kid an old Army rucksack . Frameless, three outside pockets , wide canvas straps.
In the sixties any framed pack was rare . We were taught to pad the back of the pack with a poncho, poncho liner , heavy gear on top of the load. I still do that and it works fine.”

“Currahee , werent you a Batt Boy? I saw your signature over there was "Sua Sponte " (of their own accord) which is the Ranger Motto.”

“Yup, B co, 3/75
RLTW!!”

“No whining from drivers..”

“The only reason I ended up as a driver was because I'd done too much walking- When they found out I'd screwed up most of the cartilage in my right knee, they made me a driver- and they still made me march- I never could figure out that logic, but then again, the military didn't issue much of that stuff, did they?”

“Just slaggin ya. I wrecked myself, had my knee rebuilt, lost my jump status and ended up driving my last 6 months as well. A lousy end to a kick-ass enlistment.”

“Small world Currahee, C Co 2/75 for me.”

“Nice one. I heard Ft. Lewis is the #&%!$. Everyone loved it up there.”

“I think the Army leadership is made up of hardheads with the attitude, "It was good enough for me"......."Its on the packing list."

Who needs an enemy when you are beatin' the crap out of yourself with excess and useless gear?

I think the Pentagoons are more concerned with pleasing their contractors than properly outfitting soldiers.

My advice; take a look at how the Germans, Italians, French, Norweegies, etc are doing it and get some DECENT GEAR!!!!!!@#&%^*%&*@(*^&#

The usual suspects(contractors) can be buggered.”

“As uncomfortable as it is, it's proven itself again and again. As an American fighting unit, we're not exactly disadvantaged by our gear as much as our rules of engagement.”

“Hey corp, you forgot the SINGARS, thats another 50 lbs and wet weather gear, 10 lbs, Basic Ammo load, 23 lbs, 15 more, if you were a 203 gunner. Yeah, and that wonderful 10 lbs Kevlar helmet, 15 lbs flak vest......etc. I think its closer to 27,000 lbs.”

“Sure the standard Army packs have "worked", but if men are getting raw spots on their hips,........uh, why not fix it?





contractors?”

“Currahee, Ft Lewis was alright. The North West is pretty but the friggin rain was too much. A one week field problem was a wet affair, especially in winter steady drizzle and cold. I loved the summer though. I could see My Rainer from my window (providing the fog was gone).

I think that military geat could really use some improvements however...The gear needs to last through like 20 years of abuse cause buyin new packs for every new private would be pricey.”

“Gregory's website has a pack called the UM21 that they say they build for some of the U.S forces. It's a modular pack, but I'm not sure it's given to the regular ground forces or elite units. They don't say much about exactly who gets it. They do say it can support 120 pounds of combat gear.”

“I saw a gear show on OLN a couple of years ago with new USMC gear on it. Looked pretty good, had a built in hydration system, removable day pack stuff like that... I don't think the Army would adopt something after the Corps”

“the pack might be able to support 120 pounds, what about the poor sucker under it? There are some guys in the service who barely weigh more than that!”

“Corporal, I thought about that when I was reading about the UM21 pack. How can someone fight with that kind of a load? I'm assuming it's modular so you can pull off some parts to lighten up and then the just take the essentials to fight with.”

“You don't fight with it. The gear gets dropped at the ORP, then collected after the raid, ambush, etc.. You take your weapons, ammo, H2O, demo, inflatable pool, & what not, to the fight. Or if the fight comes to you, drop ruck and use it as cover.”

“I have a few military packs, but never use them to haul gear from A to B.

I like the web belt and harness though, when dayhiking on mild terrain.

Camera, First Aid/Survival kit, flashlight, knife and a quart canteen, and I never even notice the weight.”