The Whites - NH

“I am thinking of doing a backpacking trip in either July or August in the Whites. However, since I am not from that area nor have I ever been to the area - I'm not sure what I might expect as far as weather issues, clothing issues (in relation to the weather), animal and bug issues, elevation issues (elevation sickness? or too low for that?), backcountry fees (do they exist?) and so on and so forth.

This might be a solo trip, via public transportation, and I don't want to get into something I'm not prepared for.

Your direct answers would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!”

“TT:

No elevation sickness problems, too low for that.

If you go above 5,000 feet - you will want to be prepared for nasty weather - have some storm worthy gear and insulating layers available. There are great and wonderful routes that never get you that high.

There are National Forest Parking fees, also many of the shelteres and tent sites near the AT have fees (up to 8 dollars for many).

Animal problems are relatively minor... bugs should be calming down, but you will want to be equipped with potent bug repellant.”

“I think I remeber someone saying that it once snowed in the Whites during a summer month - is this true?

By nasty weather - what are we talking about - temperatures? - rain? - wind? - lightening?

Also, if I want to go light and get one of those hammocks - I wonder if I'd still have to pay for a tent site?”

“Here are some useful links:

http://www.outdoors.org/activities/hiking/index.shtml" target="_blank"> good source of info on the basics

http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/whites/index.html" target="_blank"> very informative site for White Mountain hiking ”

“It can snow in the summer at the highest peaks of the presidentials in any month. It doesn't stick around though. Typical Bad weather at the higher altitudes may mean gusts up to 60mph, 45 degrees and rain.

Except for the highly restricted wilderness areas, you can easily set up a Hammock or tent legally at a free spot. On most trips safe, legal spaces aren't a problem... it's just a couple places, most notably along the ridge that takes you up along Adams, Jefferson, Washington and Madison that's highly restricted.”

“Here are:

http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/normals.html" target="_blank"> weather statistics for Mt. Washington with links to other weather info
If you tell me about your ideal hike, I'll try to suggest something.

Do you want: Solitude? Views? ease of access? Cheap? Convenience? Freedom from bad weather worries?”

“Ideal Trip would include:
1. Accessible via public transportation
2. Free of crowds but not completely isolated
3. Beautiful views
4. Someplace where I don't have to carry all my water for the entirity of the trip
5. A relaxed pace for 2 - 3 nights”

“Pedxing,

Thank you for the links - they are most informative.

I don't really care if I climb Mt Washington or not. I just want a really beautiful hike.”

“Twinkle Toes, pedxing gave you some good information which should get you started on planning your trip.

My wife and I hike exclusively in the Whites, so if you have any additional questions feel free to ask. In fact, we are doing a quick overnight this weekend to 13 falls, which is in the heart of the Pemigewasset Wilderness.

We will be in NH almost every weekend from now until the end of August so if you need anything please e-mail me. Pedxing can vouch for my trustworthiness.”

“Could you suggest a nice location? I am ordering maps today but could really usesome suggestions.

Thanks”

“Twink - I suggest getting a map or a guide. The DeLorme map (4.95 last I looked) "Trail Map and Guide to the White Mountain National Forest" or the AMC White Mountain Guide (the new, 27th edition is about 20 - 25 dollars) and thinking about some options.

Off the cuff, it looks like the best transportation option takes you by Trailways to the Pinkham Notch Visitors Center - from there you have a bunch of options basically:

1) Take a route that will bring you into occasional contact with crowds that takes you to some of the spectacular places (like Washington and maybe Boot Spur)

2) You could take a route that bypasses Washington and takes you less well traveled trails Southwards (e.g. Davis, Isolation or Dry River) and then ride the hikers shuttle to catch the bus

3) You could head east into the Carters (less crowds, less exposure than either route) and do a loop that takes you to the shuttle.

One version of 1) Loops around to Madison and the Peak of Washington and down Tuckerman's ravine and back to the visitors center - you could camp out on the way up to Washington and on the way down (at Hermit Lake).”

“Just a quick suggestion.

Pemi loop. It's the quintessential White Mountain hike. Start from Lincoln Woods and hike to the Osseo Trail and then to Mt Flume. Camp the first night at Liberty Springs on Mt. Liberty. Second day hike the entire Franconia Ridge and camp the second night at Mt. Garfield campsite. The third day hike to the Guyot campsite going over South Twin and Mt. Guyot. The next day hike back to your car going over the Bonds. The Franconia Ridge and the Bonds (Bondcliff, Bond, and West Bond) are some of the most beautiful peaks in the Whites. Each campsite has water and platforms. Unfortunately they do charge a fee of $8.00 a night.

There are several other variations of a Pemi loop, so you have a few other options.”

“Twinkle Toes: MadRiver is a good guy and knows the White Mountains very well, he could certainly help.

The best hike for what you want - except for the public transportation would take you through the Bonds. But I can't think of a 3 night trip that would taken you through them that wouldn't have you burning a lot of miles and would be doable without hitch hiking or getting a ride.”

“I do not have a car. I know it is hard to believe - but I live in NYC and do not have a car. I repeat - I do not have a car. :)

This sounds very promising - thanks for all the links and trail suggestions - can't wait to get the maps and start planning a trek”

“The advantage of the Pemi is that you can begin and end at the same point, namely the Lincoln Woods Ranger Station. Since I will be starting from there on my overnight trip this Friday, I will ask if any busses stop at the trailhead.

Don't worry too much about transportation. My wife's Aunt and Uncle, and my friend's wife are spending the summer in NH, as well as my wife and myself, so I'm sure we can figure some way of getting you to a trailhead.”

“That is a very nice offer - thank you.”

“Once you get the date and destination set, we can work on the logistics of getting you to a trailhead. It will not be that difficult.”

“TT:
The pemi loop is exactly what I would have recommended if you had a car, given what you said about your priorities and time. There is probably a way to do it from shuttle stops (by odd coincidence, I was writing about this - above while the MadMan was writing about the pemi-loop).

After thinking about this a bit - you could probably do it if you took the shuttle to the Gale River trail head (i.e. started with day 3 of MR's plan and camped out). Either way, its not an easy hike but its very doable,”

“Twink --

ANother idea, anathema on a "backpacking" site I am sure ;-)as it involves a base camp with day hikes.


You could take a look at the accomodations at "joe Dodge lodge" at Pinkham notch (check AMC's website). It is youth hostel like accomodations.

Pinkham notch is the main trailhead for one of the most widely used trails up Washington (the Tuckerman ravine trail) plus numerous numerous other routes that can be woven.

The plan. You get a room there for 3 nights. Pick your BEST weather day and plan to climb Washington.

On the other days, use the AMC hiker shuttle to get to other trail heads that you might otherwise need a car for. From Pinkham, using the shuttle you would have many many options.

Let me see if I can start another browser and cut and paste an AMC link in here. Hang on....

joe dodge lodge”

“I just saw a post about shuttles in the White Mountains at another site. It had a useful link: http://www.theshuttleconnection.com/" target="_blank"> http://www.theshuttleconnection.com/

It also had an address for another shuttle service:
White Mountain Shuttle Services
292 Main Street, Apt. 35
Gorham, NH 03581
603-466-2127

You can find the thread here: hrefhttp://www.viewsfromthetop.com/" target="_blank"> look for the NH shuttle system thread

This is a useful board for New England and NY hiking.”

“TT

One question, the 2 or 3 night hike that you have planned does that include the travel time from NYC? If so, your first night in the woods will have to be very close to a trailhead or even at a roadside camp ground or at Pinkham Notch as Lee suggested. You will most likely not reach NH until the late afternoon if you are traveling by bus, so your first day will have to be a short hike.

You can still do the Pemi, you would just spend the first night at the Franconia campsite, which is an easy hour hike from the Ranger Station. The next day you could continue to the Guyot campsite and explore the Bonds on your way in. Your have several options on how to proceed from there.”

“I'm planning on allowing several days for this trip - two for trave and very little hiking - and several more for a full on trip. This is my glamorous vacation - ha.”

“pedxing, Twinkle Toes and Mad River- I'd be interested in joining some of your hikes in the Whites. I'm only about an hour or a bit more away. I'm jonesin' for a backpacking trip. Headed to the Daks this weekend for a car camping "experience."

Twinkle Toes, if you can make it to Lebanon, Hanover or White River Junction, I could pick you up and drop you off at the station upon return after meeting up with pedxing or Mad River for a trip.

I don't know the White Mountain area very well, but am interested in learning more about it. It's right in my backyard.”

“Skiracer - I posted a thread on the trip page

If I do this, I think I'll go with MadRiver's itenerary above”

“uh yeah - i just looked at pictures of this area - and it's really not something I want to do solo! However, with a small group - it would be such an incredibly kick booty experience!

Who's game? Let's start talking dates”

“TT

If your dates include the weekend, I could take off a few days on either end (e.g. Friday/ Monday) and join whatever group you put together. I'm doing an overnight to 13 falls on Friday, which is in the heart of the Pemi. I'm also doing an overnight up on the Davis Path next week to do some trail work. I was going to stay longer in the Pemi, but I need to finish the trail work before August, so I would enjoy another backpacking trip.

Although the Pemi might look large and inhospitable, it is a very safe place. Maybe we can get pedxing and twigeater to join the group. I was supposed to do the Bonds with twigeater in the winter, but something came up.

If we get a group together, we could use my place as a staging area.”

“Ski.... I'm definitely going to the Whites in July... I'll email you you about plans when I figure it out.”

“Pedxing and Skiracer - why not join me on the trip? I think a group of 2 - 6 people would be nice.”

“soory - ped - I'm retarded - it seem sthat you are interested in coming on the trip?”

“I am thinking about doing a Pemi loop either the second or third weekend in October.

I am planning to go solo.

What is possible if I can get on the trail by 2pm Thursday and have to be back at my car by mid-afternoon Sunday?

I have just started to poke around looking for trip reports and suggested itineraries.”

“Please keep us posted.”

“Pepsi's your man, Fritz. I'm sure he'll be able to give you some great options.”

“Fritz, I am so glad you are able to get out!
Hope you have a good time!”

“Lot's of options here: One possibility.

Go for an easy low mileage hike on Day one:

Thursday: Out Lincoln Woods/Wilderness trail. Camp near the interesection of Wilderness and Bond Cliff. This is a flat, easy to do hike. Distance is about 5 miles, book time is 2 1/2 hours, so even if you start a little late you can do it.

Frieday: Do the Bond traverse. Go to Garfield Ridge Campsite. If wiped, stop at Guyot for an easy day. If you want to go further, there are lots of spots near Garfield Pond.

Saturday. Hike across Franconia Ridge to Liberty Springs tent site.

Sunday: Back out via Flume and Osseo.

Other options:

Reverse the circle, camping off the Osseo trail day one or heading all the way to Liberty Springs if you can get an early start.

Come back through the Pemi, stopping at 13 Falls tent site.

Come back via the Twinway and Thoreau Falls trail (this could be a two nighter, I did it that way).”

“BTW: There is a great looking spot right near the intersection of Wilderness and Bondcliff (towards the River) - it's illegal and sometimes checked by Rangers.”

“I chatted with a ranger recently who said that they were increasing their patrols of illegal camping. In fact, they had just fined a Boy Scout troop $900.00 for a variety of crimes against nature. If you get a late start, you can always just camp at the Franconia Brook Campsite off of the East Branch Road. This campsite used to be located off of the Lincoln Woods Trail but was moved due to sanitation problems. As long as you have 4 or 5 hours of daylight left, you should be able to reach the Liberty Springs tentsite.”

“FYI: The WMNF back country rules are at: http://www.fs.fed.us/r9/white/recreation/land_above/backcountry_rules.html”

“Also, search pemi of viewsfromthetop.com, alpinezone.com and outdoors.org/

One relevant thread is: http://appalachia.outdoors.org/bbs/messageview.cfm?catid=3&threadid=5499&highlight_key=y&keyword1=pemi%20”

“Sounds like a fun trip, Fritz! Hope you enjoy it, but I'm sure you will.”

“Good choice Fritz, this is a great trip !!

Personally if the forcast for Friday looks good, I prefer clockwise. Liberty springs Thursday night and then Franconia Ridge/Garfield Ridge to Garfield Ridge Tentsite. Saturday over to Guyot tentsite, set up and then catch the sunset on West Bond. Sunday, over Bond and Bondcliff and out to the car.

An option on Sunday is sunrise on Guyot before you pack up if you like that sort of thing.

If you are into peakbagging (which is why I like this route), with side trips you can get 14 4,000 footers in. 12 from the 48 list and two bonus peaks.”

“Thanks, all, for the info and advice! Should get the final go-ahead tonight. Can't wait, woohoooo! (I need this bad.)

Pedxing...you have email.”

“How long is the drive from BOS to trailhead?

From Manchester to trailhead?

I am probably driving all the way from Philly but should consider flying as well.”

“Stratusloop's been trying to reach you about a trip...call him, he needs to get out.”

“How long does it take the "average" backpacker to get from Guyot out to Lincoln Woods?

And what is a "platform"? Do I need a freestanding tent to use a platform?”

“Can't vouch for your first question, Fritz.. but can for the second one.

You're pretty much right on about your assumption. A freestanding tent is best, unless you have a creative way to rig something up that uses stakes. I'm not sure how big the platforms are in the campsite you wish to use, but the ones I saw at Ethan Pond were pretty big (10'X20'????).”

“The trip from Guyot to the Lincoln Brook Trail is about 5 1/2 hours for the "average" person. From there, its about 1 1/2 hours back along Lincoln Brook to the Kanc.

Mad River has camped at Guyot, I haven't. I have managed to use a non free standing tent on platforms without much problem. Just bring some good non-stretch cord and some stakes. You can tie out the staking points to the planks of the platform - and when needed you can tie onto a stake placed perpendicular to the planks of the platform. I find it easy to do - and it holds up to wind and rain, but I doubt my rigging would be as storm worthy as something staked and guyed out properly on the ground.”

“FWIW: At my skill level, if it is easy for me - it is easy. McGyver I ain't.”

“And what is a "platform"? Do I need a freestanding tent to use a platform?"

Fritz

Picture setting up a tent on a deck with no railing.

As has been said, freestanding is easier but as long as you have some cord non-freestanding is not hard. Some platforms even have eye hooks to tie to.
On the other side of the tent the cord can be dropped through the gaps in the planks tied to a stake (as pedxing stated) and pulled tight or just routed out the edge and tied off.”

“"Some platforms even have eye hooks to tie to"

I actually think most if not all have these now but said "some" to protect myself from litigation.

As always: Try to do sunset on West Bond if it's clear.”