The White - NH - Pemi Loop

“I got the feeling that a few other folks here wanted to backpack in the area too. So, there is now a trip page thread posted with a rough draft of a plan!”

“I checked with my activity coordinator (wife) and I got a green light, so it's a go on the Pemi loop. As I said earlier, I have some land that everyone can camp on the night before so we are not all meeting at the trailhead. Also, since the hike to the Liberty Springs platforms is not an all day hike, and it is on a Friday, we don't have to leave at the crack of dawn.”

“Mad - so you are thinking of meeting Thursday evening - starting Friday and getting of the trail on what? Monday? Me getting back to the city either late Monday or Tuesday afternoon?

Any dates in mind?”

“Oh - dates are not at all set - you just have to put something on the post - I'm really thinking later in July”

“The 11th to the 14th works for me, but if the dates move to another weekend, I should be able to do it as well.

To do the loop you need at least 4 days. I would suggest arriving the night before and either heading back after the hike or head back the next day. I'm pretty flexable on arrival and departure dates.

I also sent you an email outlining a travel option.”

“I guess the weekend of the 11th would work - Corp and I have talked a bit a yearly shin-dig he and his friends go on - but still no word on dates.

Okay - let's do that weekend then...I think”

“Here is a quick description of the Pemi loop we're talking about (from a trail runners site, some people do this in one day):

Pemi Loop #1 (Franconia-Garfield Ridges, Twinway, Bonds), Lincoln

Directions: From Lincoln Woods, up Wilderness Tr. 1.5 mi, then East up Osseo Trail to Flume Summit. Proceed N following Franconia Ridge, then Garfield Ridge Trails to Galehead Hut. Follow Twinway to Guyot. The section from Lafayette Peak to Guyot follows the AT. Proceed S on the Bondcliff Trail, passing Bonds (do W. Bond), and traversing Bondcliff. Descend to the Wilderness Trail 5 miles from Lincoln Woods, and enjoy the fine flat running to the car.

Trail Information: 32.5 miles and 9,200 ft of gain. This is a rigorous trip, but extremely scenic, varied, and fun. This is the most rugged section of the AT according to some. Good weather really is advisable.

Miscellaneous Information: A fine fun trail 'rike' (run-hike)


My two cents: There is no way that this covers the most rugged portion of the AT IMHO. I've been on much more rugged portions. Also, others estimate the loop at 31.5 miles.”

“I agree pedxing, I thought going up the Wildcats and Carter Dome in one day was far more difficult.

However, doing the loop in 4-days makes it far more manageable, even the last day over the Bonds is't that bad because the hike back to the Ranger's Station is flat.

Although I love every part of the hike, my favorite is the section from Little Haystack to Lincoln.”

“I've been looking at bus schedules (and fares) - and there is a bus from NYC to Boston that $40 RT with many travel options - the kicker is once I'm in Boston the fares go like this:

to Pinkham Notch ($58 RT)
to Lincoln ($46.50 RT)
to Franconia ($52 RT)

and time is limited - like one, maybe two buses a day :(

So, if I can do this - I will definately need some time to sleep after travel before hitting the trail...”

“TT

Did you get my email?”

“This is soooo tempting. The maps for that area look delicious.”

“no.

it's triana_@hotmail.com”

“Twink - If I go around the same time you do, I could probably pick you up in Boston, Manchester, or Concord, NH. Concord is ultra easy for me, my route to the Whites takes me within a minute's detour of the Concord bus station (and I often get off at that exit to visit the LL Bean outlet and pick up a snack). Actually, anyone who is coming up I-93 could meet you in Concord (I'd be happy to give 'em directions).”

“I will resend it, I forgot the underscore.”

“The route to Concord is more expensive than the route through Boston to the above-mentioned drop-off points”

“tt, Just let me know if that's a viable option.

pedxing, you going??”

“Holy crap! Does this mean, if I make it I might meet the elusive Viol man!?

Viol it is a wonderful trek... especially the Bonds.”

“I thought vioLIN was just a troll. You exist? Or would you be more like the Yetti of the Whites?”

“pedxing, is violin paper trained? I'm just thinking of my carpets.

Just kidding violin, as her backs away slowly..”

“I've gone over the maps and guidebook a number of times and it really draws me.

My niece is coming up later this month to stay with us and will stay a month but they don't really need me around...

I'll decide real”

“You two!

I'm really pretty boring in real life. That Onion bit about wishing I were as cool as my online persona really struck a nerve.”

“Mad,

I'm going to think it over and then get back to you. :)”

“I will be on vacation . . .in NH withhe family (staying at the Cardigan lodge (which is down near Skiracer terriorty)) that week. Late in the week we have a night reserved at the Zealand Falls hut.


I certainly can attest to the beauty of the Bonds . . having just been there.

That section of trail, between Garfield and Galehead is nasty. Not a classic ridgewalk. Up down, steep, rocky sideways . . .ugh. Facing it late in the afternoon is a #&%!$.”

“No problem TT. Whatever makes you feel comfortable.


I have to leave in a few, it's my golf league tonight, and golf is a religion. You all have a fun evening.”

“Greyhound should get you round trip to Concord for about 50 bucks with a 7 day advance purchase. It should take about 7 to 9 hours depending on connections, number of stops, etc. I've done the Boston to Concord route - the fastest ones are about 1 hr 15 minutes.

Madman - I'm thinking about whether or not to go, I will have to coordinate with my kids, my g.f. and my psychiatrist (j/k kind of, I'm working with a psychiatrist doing forensic consultations and would be less likely to go if there was a huge case coming up that week).”

“BTW: The weather info on the link I gave (which is also on the trip info page) is for the top of Mt. Washington. Weather on parts of the Pemi Loop can get harsh, but not nearly as bad as atop Mt. Washington.”

“Wait Pedxing...you check with your girlfriend? Wow, I'm impressed.

I hardly ever get to see my sweetie these days :(”

“It doesn't mean she has a veto, but she's put up with for quite a while now - so it's something to discuss (especially since I'll probably leave my dog with her).”

“Shoot! I have a wedding to attend that weekend.”

“Pedxing and Madriver it sure would be great to see you 2 again. it would be like a White mt reunion. all we would need is a little AmyG and wa la”

“Would be fun Pete... and we'd be covering some of the same turf (and overlap with your trip with wd, too) - although the Bonds would be new and they are incredible.”

“SirPete! Are you coming along on this trip? It would be great to backpack with you again!”

“good possibility. let me see about getting Friday off. If so I will probably drive up after work on Thursday. I would likely have to leave Sunday night though to be back to work on Monday. Your itinerary works for me, though I would just have to hike down off the Bonds on Sunday and not the next morning. I will take Friday off and follow along. If we get more people from down here to go pehaps we can all carpool or if we don't and you feel comfortable traveling with me you are welcome to, if not I will see you up there, anyway you are always welcome for a ride.”

“Pete, if you do come, just camp on my land like you did last time.”

“Could we push this to the weekend of the 17th?

So it would be July 17 (travel day) through July 21.

Please let me know if this works - I just need another week to work and get some extra gear together.”

“I will alert my activity director to the change. It may or may not be a go.”

“just let me know asap...”

“this sounds interesting, however, I am a little confused. this is a 5 day trip to do 32.5 miles? also, are there shelters or just platforms?”

“Wolfie - what can I say - it's a work in progress

Part of it is because I started planning it as a solo - using public transportation - and had to account for travel time - then people got interested and it's opened up to a group trip.

The itinerary was suggested by Madriver.

I'm sure he has his reasons - perhaps elevation is tough despite shorter miles? I don't really know - although it does sound odd now that I think about it....

What's up Mad?”

“It's a 4-day trip. Garfield and Guyot both have shelters. The fifth day is a travel day.”

“well, regardless, it sounds good to me - I hate having to crank out miles - I want to be able to enjoy the views - explore the area - take time to cook - etc...

What's the rush is rushing?”

“That terrain may surprise you.”

“You could do the trip in two days if you want a two-day Death March. The first day is short because the only option of camping once you reach the ridge is to either camp at Liberty Springs, stay at the Greenleaf Hut, or hike all the way to Garfield. To reach Garfield the first night would be a 14+-mile day going over the entire Franconia Ridge. I'm not saying it can't be done; it just would be a very long day. The only other option is to stay a Greenleaf Hut for $65.00 a night, which my budget wouldn't allow.

Part of the reason I suggested the Pemi loop was so you could enjoy the beauty of the area. If you are traveling a warp speed, why even bother going, you will miss the opportunity of appreciating the scenery.

Four days gives you the time to stop and enjoy the beauty of the wilderness. It allows you to sit on the top of Liberty the first night and watch the sunset over the Kinsman Ridge. It allows you to do the same at Garfield and on West Bond as well.

I've seen the Franconia Ridge and the Bonds and the Pemi from all sides, so if you want to change the itinerary I understand, but since this is your first visit to this area, I would hate for you to miss an opportunity to truly appreciate the beauty of the Pemi in exchange for speed.”

“no no no! not at all! I was just curious after Wolf guy posted about it - no way - I like to take my time - I am always one of the slower hikers - not because i walk terribly slow - I just get distracted on the trail! I love your itinerary! I've never been there and thus have no desire to fiddle with what an area expert has suggested.

Mad - don't be mad!”

“One option of reaching Garfield the first day would be to bypass the Franconia Ridge and hike to Garfield via the Franconia Brook Trail. In fact, I'm doing a quick overnight on Friday to 13 falls, which is only about an hour or so south of Garfield. The down side of that route is you miss the grandeur of the Franconia Ridge.

However, sirpete you might consider that option if you cannot get Friday off. Come up Friday night and stay on my land, Saturday morning hike into Garfield via the Franconia Brook Trail and met us at the campsite. Sunday we could all hike to Guyot and you could continue out over the Bonds if you want. The Pemi affords many options.


TT Don't worry!! I will make it my mission that you see absolutely everything of worth on your trip. We might even be able to do a side trip to 13 falls if time permits.”

“Makes sense to me! Thanks for the clarification.”

“1. Let's keep the Franconia Ridge - I'd really like to have that in the plan.

2. Side trip - sounds good to me!

3. Mad - can we change the weekend? Did you find out yet? I really, really need to know ('cause i gotta get a different sleeping bag - some more socks - a pair of water/wind proof pants, prepare meals, etc... AND - do some bike riding to get ready!)”

“Where is Fritz on this discussion? I remember him saying that the terrain was very punishing in places. His knees were bothering him afterwards. So four days to do 32 miles can be taxing, especially for someone like Twinkle Toes who is carrying in her pack a larger percentage of her body weight than other people.”

“Lyndy - you are the best for making that comment!

I keep trying to get the pack down in weight but that doesn't seem to be working. My new plan? Get myself up in weight! hahahaha!! Okay - well, the getting there part would be really fun - mmmmmmm, chocolate!”