Jesus faked

“This likely comes from the same con artists who gave us the war in Iraq and the bogus forgery of a nuclear weapons program in Iraq:


JERUSALEM -- A stone box touted as the oldest archaeological evidence of Jesus is, in fact, a well-crafted fake, Israeli archaeological experts say.

The box, an object known as an ossuary, was said to have contained the bones of Jesus' brother James.

Carved on one side is an inscription in the ancient language of Aramaic bearing the legend: "James, son of Joseph, brother of Jesus."

Officials with Israel's Antiques Authority announced Wednesday that while the box may date from the correct era, the inscription is a forgery added at a much later date.

"The inscription appears new, written in modernity by someone attempting to reproduce ancient written characters," the officials said in the statement.

They said that a panel of archeological experts had agreed unanimously with the findings.

The box first came to public attention in October last year when French archaeologist Andre Lemaire identified and translated the inscription.

Writing in the Biblical Archaeology Review last year Lemaire, an expert in ancient scripts, said it was "very probable" that the box belonged to Jesus' brother James. (Evidence of Jesus?)


The inscription has caused great excitement among biblical scholars.
However, after months of detailed examination of the box and the inscription the team of Israeli experts concluded that the finding was incorrect.

"The ossuary is real. But the inscription is fake," the director of Israel's Antiquities Authority, Shuka Dorfman, told Reuters.

"What this means is that somebody took a real box and forged the writing on it, probably to give it a religious significance," Dorfman added.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/06/18/jesus.box/index.html

This is why I trust religion as much as politicians.”

“Dremel, Dremel, Dremel, Dremel I will play
Dremel, Dremel, Dremel, I 'll carve you out of clay...

Dorfman?????? Is that a pleeeeedge pin on your uni-form?”

“It is so ironic why "men" mess with sincere beliefs of devoted people.I read all about this box in October and I thought it to be the truth,although I knew "they"would say it is fake.It really doesn't matter. You know HE is real or not with you own relationship with him. :~ )”

“Seems to me this may have been a goof-up by some archaeologists ...not religion.”

“This box doesn't matter at all it doesn't take away the fact that Jesus is real person. He lived in the human flesh and was and still IS perfect. He died on a cross for you and me and there isn't anything that any person could say or do to disprove that. It's just that people can't accept things that easily. I've been a Christian for 3 years and I went from almost killing myself to living a life that is worthwhile and good. I know beyond a doubt that Jesus is real and I don't need a box to prove it. I have a saving relationship and a book that does it for me and because of these reason I don't need a box to prove it. Jesus died so I could live why not give it a try you'll find out what your really missing.”

“The whole story about Jesus (the bible) could just as easily have been faked.”

“Well I wouldn't want to be in your shoes if you're wrong.”

“It sure is clouding up all of a sudden.... Was that lightning?”

“What are you saying, Stickman, that Jesus is vengeful?”

“Only in your case.”

“Would you like to read a copy of the Book of Mormon? I can have a couple of nice young men drop one off at your house.”

“Awesome!! Now I have something to ponder while I backpack this weekend!!”

“I can't believe you guys are falling for Alaska's ultra-obvious attempt to stir the hornet's nest.”

“Everything is fake...we're living in The Matrix. This is all a dream.”

“But is this matrix contained within another matrix????”

“Just enough to stir up trouble.

How come this text from the article was conveniently left out? Go look for yourself, it's the very last paragraph.

While most scholars agree that Jesus existed, no physical evidence from the first century has ever been conclusively tied with his life.

Gee, that kind of changes the whole thing, doesn't it. Now it's just a story about an artifact and has little to do with Jesus.”

“~~let those who have eyes to see~~~

to me, belief...trust....religion.....all fall short of the enlightenment, knowledge and peace that a comes with the DIRECT personal experience of the of "evidence" surrounding us , (especially in the wilderness while BACKPACKING... heh)

Belief is like reading books and asking friut experts what a banana tastes like, without ever having eaten one yourself..”

“Gotta have mango!”

“I think some were just a bit premature in making grand claims. The names in question were so common then that to have “James, son of Mary, brother of Jesus” on something is akin to writing “Bob son of Jane, brother to Jim”.”

“Alaska is a tool!”

“Jesus, brother of Jose'?”

“Althought I'm a firm believer in the evolutionary process I can't leave out that a influencial man named Jesus existed sometime ago. For CS, the oldest book in publication is about him and millions have died in his name.

Son of God or not, he had something that very few humans, that have walked this earth, had. Without trying to belittle what that 'something' is or was by labelling him
as a 'salesman' of sorts. I can only say he gave the people what they needed at that time. Call it,, selling of hope and salvation or whatever. Those where troublesome times for people of that era.”

“I find this very funny. When the box first hit the news, the usual christian geeks (in other forums) were gloating about how the box proves Jesus existed. Now they're conspicuously silent. What's even more funny is that I've been upsetting their fragile self-esteem by using this forgery as an argument to debunk the entire christian myth - much the same way christian creationists try to debunk evolution in its entirety because some evolution 'evidence' has been faked in the past.

But still, even though it's obvious to most scholars that there is no physical evidence of Jesus, the christian geeks still insist they have evidence. Of course, none of their so-called evidence stands up to analysis, but they don't let facts get in the way of their beliefs (in much the same way they deride liberals for not using facts).

As much as Christianity is a disgusting, false religion - it's fun to have christians around to break over the knee of logic. Fun stuff!”

“See you in hell, Mutt!”

“Arrrgggg! Everytime some fakery or devilry is announced, people jump up and say "See, religion is bad!"

Distance yourself from God and Jesus and your life will be bereft of an important lifeforce. It is good to be skeptical of claims made by people, but you need to read the bible and know about Jesus yourself. What could be simpler than picking up a book. Read the New Testament and make your own decisions. Some words have changed with the years of translations, so try to absorb the story within the words. Prophets predicted Jesus's life as many as 500 years before he was born. Not just in vague terms, but in very specific descriptions of his lineage, birth, actions and how he would die. These predictions were in the Old Testament, written before Christ was born.

Ask yourself whether the world is just here, rock and dirt and plants and animals. Or is there a connection, a force that we are all tapped into. Are some people drawn to be hurtful, some people drawn to be helpful and some are wobbling in between? If so, why? Our choice, or something else?”

“Some words have changed with the years of translations

Whoah there. You can't claim to be a true christian because true christians believe in the complete inerrency of the bible. If one part is wrong or open to interpretation, then that taints the whole book.

The universe is 6000 years old, you know. And God murdered innocent babies during the Great Flood.

Sheesh. It just goes to show you ANYONE can call themselves christians.”

“I think that you are a victim of absolutes, Mutt. Christians all have their own beliefs based on their own study of the bible. A Christian is someone who believes that Jesus Christ was the son of the one true God.”

“Christians all have their own beliefs based on their own study of the bible

Not real christians. Real christians believe in Jesus' words ONLY. There's nothing to 'believe' but the inerrency of Jesus/bible”

“Bible text was originally written in Aramaic and Hebrew. Then translations were made to Greek and Latin. The one I read is in English. Since Hebrew customs were quite different two thousand years ago, modern people could misinterpret a sentence written in Hebrew back then. My bible often discusses original words and possible direct translations and then possible intended meanings in the footnotes. Read some of that and it is easy to see that some concepts were misinterpreted over the years. Mostly those details are not important to the central message of the bible. Most people who rant against religion simply don't like being told what to do. They see the bible as reinforcing a set of rules to follow that they don't like. I can tell you that all Christians follow some of the rules, most of the rules, or all of the rules. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.”

“You'll get no argument from me on the translation bit, lyndsys. Of course the bible has changed.

And no, it's not the 'rules' that bothers non-believers. It's the evil inherent of the religion that's bothersome. Like the claim of exclusivity, for instance.”

“"Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase."

--Martin Luther King, Jr.”

“Mutt, maybe the rules don't bother you, but they bother many others that don't want to believe in Jesus Christ. The exclusivity idea is troublesome, and I have studied it quite a bit. But I believe that there is one true God and that no one comes to the Lord except through Christ. He died for us. We can choose to accept this or not. That is the heart of the exclusivity idea. If we do not accept this then we are excluded. But it is our choice. God does not stand before us and say "I will strike you down if you do not believe". We can choose to accept this or wander outside of his kingdom, some say forever.

The whole bible story of Revelation depicts a time in the future that would be entirely different though, with people suffering physically for their inaction. That is a heavily discussed section with tremendous disagreement amongst Christians about what is specifically supposed to happen and why. Many people expect that Revelation's suffering will be limited to adults. I don't know what to think about that part of the bible. I have too many questions still.”

“Suffering physically for inaction is hardly righteous.

That happened to European Jews, Armenian Christians, and other groups too.”

“But Tom, that was done by humans, not by God.”

“But I believe that there is one true God and that no one comes to the Lord except through Christ.

It's just that there's no logical reason to believe this. In fact everything seems to suggest it's wrong.”

“Well, OK, but who is going to inflict this predicted future suffering?”

“Exclusivity may make some people uncomfortable, but in itself, the concept of exclusivity is neither good nor evil. It is simply a claim to be accepted, rejected or ignored. On the other hand, ideas have consequences, and individual or group behavior based on prior beliefs may be good or evil. Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, Moslems, etc. ...even atheists, agnostics and skeptics... often fail to live up to the standards of morality they claim to hold. So what else is new?

Lyndy, have you ever read/studied anything about the Dead Sea Scrolls and their implications regarding the accuracy of bible text translating?”

“Don't rely on a book or the words of others, open your own dialog.”

“Suffering physically for inaction is hardly righteous.

Inaction is still action -- it is the choice of "doing nothing".

Any reasonably intelligent person can see that religious persecution is not in sync with the principles of Christianity. Like all things, religion can be turned to evil purposes by evil people. That someone uses a hammer to kill a person does not make the hammer evil.”

“Maybe to you but not to me. Not everything is "logical" because lots of people see things differently. It doesn't match "Mutt's Logic". I have always felt the presence of God. Many times I have felt His protection. Since you are not me, it is not logical to you. You need to feel the presence of God for yourself.

One of the things that bother me a great deal is when people kill their children and then say "God told me to do it". Does anyone kill their kids and say "the Devil told me to do it". Obviously God doesn't play the same game as Satan. However it bothers me that children were killed. That is the great mystery to me, why some children are amazingly saved from harm and many are not. Those who are saved, you can't explain it all as luck or coincidence. But why some and not others?”

“Note to self........"shut up"”

“Yikes! Didn't take long for this powder keg to fill up. Religion for me is a mix of faith AND logic. I get called stiff necked and hard hearted because of my critical analysis christianity and the conclusions I have come to. It is largely because so many people try to approach it because they are told to forget their human reasoning and follow their emotions. There is room for logic when considering G-d...that is why G-d gave it to us and even warned that He would allow false things to crop up that would force them to analyize them with reason to determine of it is true or not.

Whatever...I've rambled too long as it is.”

“No MSilver, I haven't seen where that is published. I thought that they were still working on translation. Let me know what you have read about.”

“Nigal what you say is true, but you have to grab onto some things and believe in them because they make sense to you, even if they don't to 100% of the population.”

“Exclusivity may make some people uncomfortable, but in itself, the concept of exclusivity is neither good nor evil. It is simply a claim to be accepted, rejected or ignored. On the other hand, ideas have consequences, and individual or group behavior based on prior beliefs may be good or evil

If a belief tends to cause destructive conflict, then it's a bad thing. Exclusivity has a rich history of doing just that.”

“Tom, Mutt, Nigal, MSilver, I looked at this as a discussion. I wasn't seeing it as a powderkeg of strife. Sorry, if I offended anyone.

Tom, precisely, Revelation is suffering handed down from God in a future time, if many interpretations are correct.”

“Yes, but many times it's the order in which we believe that leads to misunderstanding. If we believe first then set out to examine it, it can leads to self fulfilled beliefs in many ways. Many times we find what we seek rather than simply discovering it. There has to be a standard for messurment. For me that is Torah.

To each his own though.”

“Maybe to you but not to me. Not everything is "logical" because lots of people see things differently. It doesn't match "Mutt's Logic". I have always felt the presence of God. Many times I have felt His protection. Since you are not me, it is not logical to you. You need to feel the presence of God for yourself.

What makes you think I don't feel the presence of God? Are you suggesting I'm an atheist since I don't believe in christianity?

As has already been said - God has given us reason. There is no reason to rely on blind faith for spiritual enlightenment. In fact, that can get you into trouble. So can relying on logic to the complete exclusion of faith. Exclusivity just does not match what we see in the world. If you can come up with secular explanation of why Christianity is the ONLY true religion, then I'm all ears (in other words, a recursive reference to the bible isn't going to cut it). Otherwise, I'll have to use reason to determine that it's a ridiculous, unsupported fiction.”

“Do all the good you can, by all the means you can, in all the ways you can, in all the places you can, at all the times you can, to all the people you can, as long as ever you can....

--John Wesley

Is an agnostic who lives his entire life by this principle doomed to hell?

While I am a Christian, I find it hard to believe in exclusivity.”