liberal or the other one?

“Everyone is always using the word "liberal". It's prolly something to do with policics so I recon I'm not one. Could somebody please explain (without going into great detail) WTF it means? Is it good or bad? Why the big deal if someone is one or not?”

“can you say "....can of worms"”

“Walkindude, do you realize what you have done? This thread wil take off.”

“So what's the answer?”

“liberal or conservative, there both crooks, just vote for your favorite crook”

“Yall prolly think I'm sh*ting but I'm serious.
I'm just curious as to what people are talking about.”

“I don't vote at all. What does that make me?”

“Most (but not all) democrats tend to be liberals. They tend to lean more towards the societal issues of politics like welfare, afirmative action, abortion, special gay rights...they like to take from those who have earned it and give it to those who haven't.

Why are they so bad? They tend to lean more towards the societal issues of politics like welfare, afirmative action, abortion, gay rights...they like to take from those who have earned it and give it to those who haven't.

Haha!”

“What's the opposite of a liberal?”

“How are they fuct up?”

“Nigal, I am a Democrat and I am against all that you mentioned except abortion.”

“what are liberals trying to "take" when it comes to gay rights? i see your point on welfare and affirmative action, and more or less agree (although we both know its an oversimplification), but not on gay rights. they just want to be given the right to marry, adopt, and some of the other things that straight couples enjoy, while taking nothing away from straights. theyre paying taxes in this country, too.”

“A conservative is the oposite. They tend to lean towards free trade, capitalism, smaller government, less hand outs, more military might, more traditional Judao/christian values...to be perfectly honest with you I'm not the one to ask because I'm biased. Try Pedxing. He's a about as honest and middle of the road as I've seen here. Don't listen to the rest of us.”

“"what are liberals trying to "take" when it comes to gay rights?"

I never said gays want to take anything from straights. My taking from one to give to another was referring to welfare and the unfair taxation of the successful. If you do a quick search for laws concerning gay rights in the state of california and especially SanFran you will see the gay rights groups are going for much more than just the same rights. I'm all for equal rights, but not special rights.”

“what are they trying to do in cally?”

“My simplified version...

Conservatives tend to promote a philosophy of self-reliance. ie., if you want something, go get a job & work for it.

Liberals tend to promote more a philosophy of letting government, or society as a whole, take care of more of the "basic human needs".

The argument starts when fringe elements from either side try to re-define "basic human needs" and begin to promote their agendas.

When fringe members of the Democratic Party (liberals) promote having the government do more and more of what individuals have historically done for themselves, then they begin leaning toward Socialism. Socialism is a bad word to many, and scares / threatens Conservatives. Sometimes this label is justified.

When fringe elements of the Conservative party (Right-Wingers)attempt to take away the "safty net" we provide for those down on their luck, or born into unfortunate situations, they are labeled "cold hearted" or downright "mean". Also somewhat justified in some cases.

Taking away the fringe elements on both sides, what too many people fail to understand is that mainstream members of both the Republican and Democratic party often want the same things for our citizens, they just believe in different methods to achieve those goals.”

“I'm a Liberal and I am not a Democrat.

I would say that I'm 'more liberal' than the average voter these days. Ten years ago my views would have been labelled as moderate... before Newt Gingrich, the "Contract with America" and the Moral Majority hit the big time.

Political parties? Good grief.

They've both sold out to the highest bidder. Politicians say they want smaller gov't, until it comes down to pork for their own districts. They say they are for personal freedom, as long as they agree with that particular freedom. They all give handouts to their constituants.

I don't see how anyone would trust a political party to do the right thing... and they control a large chunk of the cash politicians need to pay for their re-election campaigns.

Do I sound cynical? My idealism was slowly chipped away during the Watergate trials and the last nail in the coffin was Gerry Ford pardoning Nixon, September 8, 1974.

I haven't trusted any of the bastards since, LOL”

“I'm agreeing with Tilt?? (lightning bolts from the sky appear)

I'm a conservative and I'm not a Republican.

I would say that I'm "more conservative" than the average voter these days. Ten years ago I was WAYYY more conservative, now I'm just "more" conservative. My change has had more to do with an awakening to the fact that many more people than I thought need a helping hand, and an awareness that we, as a country / society / species, should promote something other than the "winner take all" philosophy that big business espouses.

That being said, I still believe we should hold people to high standards, not "lower the bar" in most cases, and continue to reward excellence and productivity. Let's just not be extreme about it.

I also agree w Tilt that both parties are full of self-serving individuals who will do just about anything for a vote. Our own Gov. Gray Davis (California) is probably the best example of that in recent history... the man is a true scumbag of historic proportions...and I say that as a human being, not as a Dem or Repub.”

“I agree with wanderer's definition of conservatives and liberals.”

“oh' my, WD good thread.”

“Walkie,it's easy,Mike Tyson is a liberal.Osama Bin Laden is a conservative.Pick a roll model.”

“The old definition:

"In America there are varying shades of political opinion, among the shadiest of these is The Liberal, 10 degrees to the left of center in good times, 10 degrees to the right when it affects them personally." Phil Ochs


New definition: Any one who believes in balanced budgets or otherwise disagrees with the neocon agenda.”

“CONSERVATIVE, n. A statesman who is enamored of existing evils, as distinguished from the Liberal, who wishes to replace them with others.”

“Hey WD, long time, no hike with. We gotta fix that someday soon.
Anyhoo, for an in-depth essay on the evolution of liberalism, check this out;
www.belmont.edu/lockesmith/essay.html

It's a 21-page essay on the rise, decline and reemergence of classical liberalism (unfortunately, not the kind in vogue these days) which I think you will find very informative. Unfortunately, there is no simple answer as it is a very complex subject.

Happy walkin', dude!”

“Too many gray areas, and fence riders nowadays. What a bunch of windsocks some of you are. ' I'm a liberal but not a democrat' LOL. That reminds me of this Black study hall monitor I had in H.S. He was a Democratic Republican Libertarian. When ask what he meant by that, he continued to mumble on until he told us to sit down and shut up. He had know idea what he was talking about.

I vote for the preservation of rights. Republicans I see as realist and Democrats as dreamers. How many dreams have come true for you?”

“It's obvious to me that you don't know shit. All you know is the stereotypes you've been fed.”

“I'm a liberal but not a democrat' LOL. That reminds me of this Black study hall monitor I had in H.S. He was a Democratic Republican Libertarian.

There's a difference between political philosophy and political affiliation. Poly Sci 101. No, rather High School Civics.

Moreover, there are multiple dimensions of political philosophy.

For instance, I'm socially liberal, economically middle-of-the-road (slightly conservative), and neocon (read: aggressive) foreign policy.”

“ped's quote is right on for me. I think liberalism and conservativism are defined differntly by different people. The 10% theory sums it up about right.

Personlly, I'm right in the middle, and believe that checks and balances are what is best for our government. Power corrupts everyone, and, if it's balanced, we'll all be better off.

As for the theory that Democrats are dreamers and tend to represent those who "need a helping hand", I don't agree. The democtaric side of me tends to think that 10% of people look for hand outs, where 70% need checks on capitalistic greed in order to survive in our society. They work hard, yet aren't rewarded financially like a lawyer or doctor. Capitalism can work for everyone, as long as it's kept in check.”

“Soooo where is the other 20%????”

“Socio-economically speaking - upper middle class.”

“Would you care to enlighten me about what stereotypes I might have? Becuase it seems to me you know what they are.

There is nothing wrong with dreaming. Its very romantic. I dream all the time about a better place for you and me and all the others. BUT then reality kicks in and I begin to realize that I'm gonna have to open my own doors if I want to achieve the American dream.

BB I was just jabbin ya! It's good thing you're not cuttin checks!!!”

“It's obvious.”

“Tilt acting up again?”

“UpUrs Shall Rize Agin.”

“Tilt's right. Briar has an obvious stereotypical bias.”

“If you knew my wingman Briar, you'd know that he isn't stereotypical, and biased only toward beautiful women.

yo!”

“Could be, BB, but I can only judge by wht I see here.”

“From a narrow Conservative POV every Liberal is a Democrat and every Democrat is a Liberal.

Suuuuuuuuure.”

“And e every liberal has lost touch with reality and is only dreaming about any fiscal or social changes to the status quo.”

“You got that BB. Creed or Color make no difference to me.

I don't know who is more the obscurantist, Tilt or Pheaddy? You guys every take off the rose colored glasses?”

“Taint and Phagrus are two peas in a pod!”

“I never talked about creed or color. Your view on liberal/conservative is based on stereotypes. Argue the point.”

“Who gives a damm about labels?

Just send me my tax cut check and keep my defense, oil, timber, and mining industry stocks doing well.”

“Phagrus what is your point there buddy! Nobody Cares!”

“it's like this WD....all guitar players are conservatives .... drummers are liberals.....


YOU'RE IN DEWD! LET's JAM!


ok, but seriously folks....tom brokaw, dan rather, peter jennings, sean penn, jane fonda, tilt, phaedrus, violin, bill clinton, hillary clinton & senator robert byrd(ex KKK recruiter) are liberals.....they want socialism, not democracy. they want government to solve all of your problems so that you will be in dept to them and dependant on them so you'll keep voting for them. they "say" they want to help poor people, but they really don't cuz if they did help the poor, there would be no more reason to vote for them. this can be proved by looking at all the trillions that have been spent on poverty and yet look at how much poverty there still is. they say that somone who is rich doesn't really need all that money and they think they have the right to take it and give it to someone who will vote for them........i could go on and on....”

“You do go on.

SSDD.

LOL”

“Read the post above and tell me again WHO is supposed to be out of touch with reality?”

“they want socialism, not democracy.

I love it when he does this.”

“ok WD, lesson #2;


when you make a good point against them, they call you stupid and move along.....”

“It's like when Oliver Wendell Douglass would begin to crank out one of his speeches... I can almost hear "The Battle Hymn Of The Republic" in the background, can't you?”