Three Dead- Dozen wounded in 24 Hrs

“It's almost as dispicable as Bush* yelling "Mission Accomplished" and "Bring 'Em On".”

“Bring em on was an expression of confidence in the troops' abilities, something you must not be familiar with.”

“"Bring 'em on", was chicken hawk talk.”

“..Just like most of wingnuts here, they make brave talk when there's absolutely no chance of their being in danger.

Face it; you couldn't give a crap about how tough it is for our troops over there; you might as well be watching a war movie like Bush*- because that's all this is to him.”

“He can talk as tough as he likes, I guess --- he's not the one of the people who have to back it up.”

“babaric, as in:

"Why dont you go over there and hug all the Iraqis....that will stop them and help them think why they are babaric, nomads."
ThePackMan
09:00:18 AM
07/07/03",

as long as you're giving out dictionary lessons.”

“http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0707/p02s01-woiq.html

"Some frustrated troops stationed in Iraq are writing letters to representatives in Congress to request their units be repatriated. "Most soldiers would empty their bank accounts just for a plane ticket home," said one recent Congressional letter written by an Army soldier now based in Iraq. The soldier requested anonymity.

In some units, there has been an increase in letters from the Red Cross stating soldiers are needed at home, as well as daily instances of female troops being sent home due to pregnancy.

"Make no mistake, the level of morale for most soldiers that I've seen has hit rock bottom," said another soldier, an officer from the Army's 3rd Infantry Division in Iraq.”

“"I'm not reading this. This is bull#&%!$." Colin Powell

(As reported in U.S. News & World Report, 9 June 2003)

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/issue/030609/usnews/9intell.htm”

“........its not about the War on WMDs, its about our economy, the war was CREATED for our economy, if our economy remains steady or rises, Bush's created war accomplished its purpose..........”

“Main Entry: bar·bar·ic
Pronunciation: bär-'bar-ik
Function: adjective
Date: 15th century
1 : possessing or characteristic of a cultural level more complex than primitive savagery but less sophisticated than advanced civilization
2 a : marked by a lack of restraint : WILD b : having a bizarre, primitive, or unsophisticated quality”

“Articles are free on USNews.com for two weeks following their publication date before moving into the paid archive.

Pricing options for online access to the U.S.News Archive include:
$2.95: Single Article
$6.95: 3-Article Package (good for one-week)
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I don't think so..........

LOL”

“BAGHDAD, IRAQ—Reflecting on his time as Iraq's president in a pre-taped television address, Saddam Hussein expressed pride Tuesday that, despite the success of the U.S. invasion and the civilian casualties it has inflicted, he still has killed far more Iraqis than President Bush.


Above: Saddam greets admirers during his late-'90s Iraqi-killing heyday.
"George Bush believes he is so powerful, so strong," Saddam said. "But even with all of his bombs and missiles and Marines, he has not even come close to killing as many Iraqis as I did."

While estimates of the number of Iraqi civilians killed by the U.S. ranges from 500 all the way to 10,000, Saddam and his associates are believed to have murdered somewhere between 100,000 and 250,000 civilians since 1968.

"The international press counts off on their fingers every Iraqi that dies by Bush's missiles," Saddam said. "The papers make a big story of it when six Iraqi civilians are killed by American GIs near Basra, or when 15 Iraqi civilians are killed in air strikes on Baghdad. What paltry death tolls. I cannot even begin to add up how many died in Basra upon my orders, how many in Baghdad I killed with my own gun."

Throughout his presidency, Saddam said he routinely had political opponents arrested and put to death without trial, sometimes along with their entire families. He also summarily executed countless citizens for crimes as minor as petty theft and "monopolizing rationed goods."

"The race between myself and Bush is not even close," Saddam said. "I easily killed 100 times more men than Bush, not to mention women and children. That's right—women and children."

In his suppression of the Shiite Muslims alone, Saddam said he can lay claim to thousands more Iraqi kills than Bush.

"My officers did more damage rounding up students at [the Shiite Muslim theological institution] al-Hawza al-'Ilmiya in al-Najaf than the entire American 3rd Infantry did roaring through all of southern Iraq in their billion-dollar tanks," Saddam said. "And my men did not put down their guns just because someone asked for mercy. They finished the job like soldiers. They did not serve food to their enemies as if they were women at a picnic."

Saddam boasted that the 1988 Anfal campaign against the Iraqi Kurds added another 50,000 to his tally.

"In Anfal, we rounded up the battle-age men and put them in front of firing squads," Saddam said. "Even today, when you travel through rural Kurdistan, you notice the high proportion of women. That is not because of the U.S. Army. That is not because of the 101st Airborne Division. It is because of me—Saddam Hussein, President of Iraq, the Glorious Leader, the Anointed One, Direct Descendant of the Prophet, Great Uncle to the People."

In his campaigns against the Kurds, Saddam crushed unrest with chemical-weapons strikes against civilian populations—a tactic he said Bush "would never have the nerve to do."

"I remember the day my cousin [Commander of Southern Forces] Ali [Hassan al-Majid] dropped chemical weapons on the town of Halabja," said Saddam, referring to the March 1988 slaughter of 5,000 Kurds. "That is how he got his nickname, 'Chemical Ali.' Much better nickname than 'Dubya,' wouldn't you say?"

"The total number of Kurds we killed could be as high as 110,000, and that is not just an idle boast," Saddam said. "The United Nations Sub-Committee on Human Rights has been keeping extensive records of my actions for years."

In fairness to Bush, Saddam conceded that he has had a significant head start killing Iraqis, beginning his political career in the late '60s as a torturer for the Ba'ath party.

"Back in 1969, I turned the execution of 14 alleged anti-government plotters into a major public event, hanging them in a town square and leaving their bodies on display," Saddam said. "Already everyone knew my name, and this was still a good 10 years before I would carry out the wave of executions that signaled my rise to power."

In addition to killings, Saddam said he bests Bush in the torture department.

"There is a certain type of torture, which is called al-Khaygania—so named in honor of its creator, former security director al-Khaygani—in which the victim is handcuffed and suspended on a piece of wood between two chairs like a chicken," Saddam said. "Then, we attach an electric wire to the man's #&%!$ and toes. Can you see Bush doing this? Can you see Bush smashing a man's skull with a brick? Can you see him calling for the deaths of his own family members? Pah, he is too weak."

Saddam closed with harsh words for his American rival.

"I recently heard a critic of President Bush say he is a dictator," Saddam said. "That made me laugh. George Bush, a dictator! My sons Uday and Qusay showed more viciousness at 10 years of age."

"Bush has a long way to go before he can match me," Saddam added. "My hands are red with the blood of the innocent. His are merely a light pink."


heres a link to this article:

asses of evil”

“Just like most of wingnuts here, they make brave talk when there's absolutely no chance of their being in danger.
Zen_Hiker
11:53:35 AM
07/07/03

Bring 'em on", was chicken hawk talk."
Tom Terrific
11:39:21 AM
07/07/03
You've got library workers and grad students pissing and moaning about Bush's statements. What do you expect? Confidence in fighting ability and mental toughness are not exactly requirements for those two positions. Anyone who listened to the statement could tell the intent, and anyone who whines about it so much apparently doesn't have much faith in the American fighting man.”

“"America is a large, friendly dog in a very small room. Every time it wags its tail, it knocks over a chair."
Arnold Toynbee (1889 - 1975)

I have four pen pals in Iraq and we dont talk much about the support they aren't getting. We talk about how their efforts are not in vain whether the war is right or wrong. I support our troops!”

“Know nothings like this guy?



A Former Special Forces Soldier Responds to Bush's Invitation for Iraqis to Attack US Troops

"Bring 'Em On?"

By STAN GOFF Counterpunch

n 1970, when I arrived at my unit, Company A, 4th Battalion/503rd Infantry, 173rd Airborne Brigade, in what was then the Republic of Vietnam, I was charged up for a fight. I believed that if we didn't stop the communists in Vietnam, we'd eventually be fighting this global conspiracy in the streets of Hot Springs, Arkansas. I'd been toughened by Basic Training, Infantry Training and Parachute Training, taught how to use my weapons and equipment, and I was confident in my ability to vanquish the skinny unter-menschen. So I was dismayed when one of my new colleagues--a veteran who'd been there ten months--told me, "We are losing this war."

Not only that, he said, if I wanted to survive for my one year there, I had to understand one very basic thing. All Vietnamese were the enemy, and for us, the grunts on the ground, this was a race war. Within one month, it was apparent that everything he told me was true, and that every reason that was being given to the American public for the war was not true.

We had a battalion commander whom I never saw. He would fly over in a Loach helicopter and give cavalier instructions to do things like "take your unit 13 kilometers to the north." In the Central Highlands, 13 kilometers is something we had to hack out with machetes, in 98-degree heat, carrying sometimes 90 pounds over our body weights, over steep, slippery terrain. The battalion commander never picked up a machete as far as we knew, and after these directives he'd fly back to an air-conditioned headquarters in LZ English near Bong-son. We often fantasized together about shooting his helicopter down as a way of relieving our deep resentment against this faceless, starched and spit-shined despot.

Yesterday, when I read that US Commander-in-Chief George W. Bush, in a moment of blustering arm-chair machismo, sent a message to the 'non-existent' Iraqi guerrillas to "bring 'em on," the first image in my mind was a 20-year-old soldier in an ever-more-fragile marriage, who'd been away from home for 8 months. He participated in the initial invasion, and was told he'd be home for the 4th of July. He has a newfound familiarity with corpses, and everything he thought he knew last year is now under revision. He is sent out into the streets of Fallujah (or some other city), where he has already been shot at once or twice with automatic weapons or an RPG, and his nerves are raw. He is wearing Kevlar and ceramic body armor, a Kevlar helmet, a load carrying harness with ammunition, grenades, flex-cuffs, first-aid gear, water, and assorted other paraphernalia. His weapon weighs seven pounds, ten with a double magazine. His boots are bloused, and his long-sleeve shirt is buttoned at the wrist. It is between 100-110 degrees Fahrenheit at midday. He's been eating MRE's three times a day, when he has an appetite in this heat, and even his urine is beginning to smell like preservatives. Mosquitoes and sand flies plague him in the evenings, and he probably pulls a guard shift every night, never sleeping straight through. He and his comrades are beginning to get on each others' nerves. The rumors of 'going-home, not-going-home' are keeping him on an emotional roller coaster. Directives from on high are contradictory, confusing, and often stupid. The whole population seems hostile to him and he is developing a deep animosity for Iraq and all its people--as well as for official narratives.

This is the lad who will hear from someone that George W. Bush, dressed in a suit with a belly full of rich food, just hurled a manly taunt from a 72-degree studio at the 'non-existent' Iraqi resistance.

This de facto president is finally seeing his poll numbers fall. Even chauvinist paranoia has a half-life, it seems. His legitimacy is being eroded as even the mainstream press has discovered now that the pretext for the war was a lie. It may have been control over the oil, after all. Anti-war forces are regrouping as an anti-occupation movement. Now, exercising his one true talent--blundering--George W. Bush has begun the improbable process of alienating the very troops upon whom he depends to carry out the neo-con ambition of restructuring the world by arms.

Somewhere in Balad, or Fallujah, or Baghdad, there is a soldier telling a new replacement, "We are losing this war."”

“yeah were loosing alright. LMAO I think there is an airport still held hostage in Bagdad by the rebels and we cannot defeat their brave four”

“It's funny that anytime you hear a soldier being interviewed over there or after getting back stateside, he talks about how proud he is to be doing his duty and helping people. Yet, all the armchair generals that post here are experts at telling us that these guys shouldn't show so much pride esprit de corps.”

“Curious.”

“pride and esprit de corps”

“Not barbaric. Babaric, as in:

"Why dont you go over there and hug all the Iraqis....that will stop them and help them think why they are babaric, nomads."
ThePackMan
09:00:18 AM
07/07/03"

You wrote it. What's it mean?”

“anti-war protesters have a handful of fatalities due to this war. THe pro-war advocates (including a majority of the Iraqi people) have about three decades of death, genocide, destruction and a death toll aiming in the hundreds of thousands. Not to mention WTC...Ok im naieve enough to feel Sadam had no hand it that! Considering Osama is excusing his actions due to our past military conduct in Iraq.

Im glad that we have a pres. with balls who pried Clinton out of office before he could sell us off anymore than he already did. ANd Im glad he told the "wannabe one world government" called the UN to go to hell. They were only created to harness the military power of the United States once they saw that we had massive power! Everything the UN has conducted gave other countries the power to USE our military and damage our reputation.

ok hey whammy is on again! YAY”

“The only interviews I've seen are from NGs that are complaining over being active for 2 years and don't know when they are going home.”

“Taboo, Osama said the U.S. having soldiers in Saudi Arabia was the problem. You know, Saudi Arabia the country that is supporting terrorism.

I don't give a crap about what the majority of the Iraqi people want, they are adults, they can think for themselves. I'm tired of hearing about our kids getting blown up when Osama bin Laden is running around like 9/11 didn't happen”

“True but finding Osama means tapping into his little veins and Sadam had alot to do with it.”

“From Sgt Rock's letters from the front:

"Another thing of note is the 3rd ID, which was supposed to be leaving, is now stuck here with us longer. They do not have a date to go back set. Apparently the story goes something like this, President Bush wants to kick Saddam out. He and Rumsfeld get this plan to make it happen (with crappy logistics I might add, it might have lost the war if it had lasted longer). The Army tells them at the end it will take about 200,000 troops to secure just Baghdad, but the deep thinkers at the White house decide we can do it with one division and their support (about 25,000). The war is over - they start withdrawing troops. But the looting and other problems cause them a black eye. Islamic fundamentalists, which are in the majority, want a government we didn’t envision and are causing PR headaches for the whole “We Won” campaign. We start guarding everything and are tasked beyond our ability to control. Some high falutin’ retired military guys with connections get the job to run the government operations and nothing goes as planned. Now the retired guys are fired, the Secretary of the Army has resigned over this, and the soldiers are left holding the Tar Baby."”

“Zen I wasn't in the military, but I work with plenty of people who were, and I'm somewhat of a military buff. From what I hear and read, our guys over there can handle the Iraqis if they're allowed to and it doesn't become another Vietnam-ish war with politicians telling them how to do their job. I just don't think Bush saying "bring it on" is the cause of all the attacks. They were happening anyway. I've had my supervisors at work say the same sort of things, then turn to us and tell us to go take care of business. We didn't interpret it as bluster but rather as a sign that they were behind us and were allowing us to do whatever needed to be done. We were told those kinds of statements and saw them posted on our barracks walls from the first day of training. Things like "Pain is temporary, pride is forever" or "Respect--we earn it every day." "Pain is weakness leaving the body" "We don't teach you to survive, we teach you to win", all that stuff was on the walls in the barracks, the weight room, we chanted about it in group runs, while marching to and from classes, etc. It was indoctrination, plain and simple, and it worked. We graduated knowing we were the finest in the state, confident in our abilities.
You were in the military, you've probably heard all the same stuff.
Too much emphasis is being placed on what President Bush said, and not enough on what the troops are capable of.”

“Yeah! you guys remember how the parents sounded on Peanuts? hmmmm”

“WHY do some people mistakenly equate Bush with the United States of America? It's bizarre. He's a GUY doing a JOB (and some would say he sucks at it).

WHY do some people mistakenly transfer other people's opinions of Bush onto the troops? Sorry, they are not equivalent in any way shape or form, no matter how much Bush wants to glom onto THEIR honor. These people are serving their country in a very dangerous place. Bush spouts crap from behind a wall of Secret Service personnel.

Not the same At All.”

“Bush saying that was dumb, but no biggie.

I was in the military... and I equate it to having a wimpy little brother talking smack to someone and then hiding behind his big brother”

“Once upon a time
Once when you were mine
I remember skies
Reflected in your eyes
I wonder where you are
I wonder if you
Think about me
Once upon a time
In your wildest dreams

Once the world was new
Our bodies felt the morning dew
That greets the brand new day
We couldn't tear ourselves away
I wonder if you care
I wonder if you still remember
Once upon a time
In your wildest dreams

And when the music plays
And when the words are
Touched with sorrow
When the music plays
I hear the sound
I had to follow
Once upon a time
Once beneath the stars
The universe was ours

Love was all we knew
And all i knew was you
I wonder if you know
I wonder if you think about it
Once upon a time
In your wildest dreams

And when the music plays
And when the words are
Touched with sorrow
When the music plays
And when the music plays
I hear the sound
I had to follow
Once upon a time

Once upon a time
Once when you were mine
I remember skies
Mirrored in your eyes
I wonder where you are
I wonder if you
Think about me
Once upon a time
In your wildest dreams
In your wildest dreams
In your wildest dreams”

“Great tune. I heard them play it at Chastain Park in Atlanta the year it came out.


What it has to do with Bush shooting his mouth off, I don't know...”

“nothing actually was just listening to it. lol”

“Conservative agenda: Ignore the obvious.”

“Too much emphasis is being placed on what President Bush said, and not enough on what the troops are capable of."
StickmanWalking
05:41:15 PM
07/07/03
I can't believe so many people are getting bent out of shape over what the President said.

"Bush saying that was dumb, but no biggie."
Donman
06:08:33 PM
07/07/03

Donman gets it.
Do you people honestly think that Bush's words were so inflammatory that the Iraqis rushed out into the streets to ambush American and British troops with renewed zeal?
Your naivete is disconcerting.
These people would attack our troops even if they walked down the street with daisies in their rifles passing out Arabic flyers that said "Bush loves you."”

“Zen_hiker is a coward. He attacks people with different opinions on military operations in Iraq other than his own by questioning whether or not they've served in the military. If they haven't served in the military they don't know what they are talking about and if they have served, they are lying about it or didn't serve in the right MOS or with the right unit. This sounds fishy to me.”

“Good gawd, how ignorant does a person have to be to expect first, that we find all their WMD the first day (which your beloved UN couldn't find in 12 years even with evidence they had them) and then want a democratic government propped up within months?

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know the most dangerouse time of war is the period of occupation. Of course all the leftist greyhaired hippys who miss their Vietnam protests want to make this out to be the same as that war.”

“Nigal you have to keep in mind that the Bush Administration said many times in many different ways that they had irrefutable evidence of WMD, that they knew where they were... you do remember the trailers of mass destruction right? So far everything they've said has been completely false. The closest we've come is stuff hidden from '92 that was still underground, as in the nuclear program had probably not been rebuilt.

As for democratic government... the reason why Bush I didn't support the revolution after the first Gulf War was because it was clear the people wanted a theocratic government, like they do now. We can't make this horse drink, so let's get them water, power, and restore order and get the heck out.

Pecker as for you (and others) I HATE when people that have never served jump out as a loud hawk. Support the troops, support the Pres, but don't be a damn armchair QB for the military... you haven't earned the right”

“Good gawd, how ignorant does a person have to be to keep spewing the same crap about the UN inspectors, while trying to make a case that invasion was necessary or justified? Invasion would have been justified if we HAD found WMD, or ANY proof that inspections were not doing the job of keeping Saddam from being a threat to his neighbors.

This is, has been, and will continue to be the issue. OUR soldiers are dying now, and for what reason? We're "rebuilding" Iraq because this was a mission of mercy, right? We did it all for the Iraqi people, right?

That's a load of crap, and you people are too partisan to acknowledge that your fearless leader stepped in a pile of #&%!$ by lying about the reasons for invading another country.

Every death of every American soldier that has occured, or will occur while we occupy Iraq, is a direct consequence of W's lies. You people that claim to be so patriotic sure seem eager to see these kids die for a cause that you refuse to examine. I'd say that makes you the traitorous ones.

You and G.W.”

“Phaedrus, buddy!! Welcome. I've been missing you in this discussion.”

“Don't forget the countless U.S. tax dollars that are flowing into Halliburtons coffers.”

“I... Can't.. Believe you're posting on this thread!”

“And you call ME too partisan? Sheesh! Read your own post Phade. You make it sound as if Bush ran the whole war himself.

You are the LAST person that should be calling ANYONE too partisan.”

“Phaed - I don't know what has come over me. Sometimes I find myself being sucked into the political threads. Usually I manage to just yell at the computer but sometimes I just have to post.

You do have to concede Nigal the point about partisanship. That's all though.”

“No, jackass, I said he lied about the reasons. Obviously, there's plenty of blame to hand over to the dems who voted in favor of the resolution in favor of military force against Iraq. I'm not too partisan to admit that (as I have in other threads). Also, I've been quick enough to assess blame on members of the democratic party about other things, if you were paying any attention at all, instead of posting blindly with your head up your ass while clinging deperately to your idiot notion of what a "liberal" is and what I'm supposed to believe.

So your partisan attempt at table-turning is absolutely specious and a desperate attempt to deflect rightly placed criticism.

Care to examine the reason we're in Iraq, now?”

“Let's also remember that when congress was voting on the resolution allowing force against Iraq, W was trumpeting the falsified documents "proving" Iraq was seeking uranium from African nations.”

“I am always willing to look at both sides of a debate, provided both sides present good arguments. Slinging ad hominems such as claiming your opponent is "eager to see these kids die" only underlines a weak position.
I pointed out weeks ago that I was having doubts about the immediate threat of WMD, but that I was still in the wait and see phase. I contend that President Bush's "bring 'em on" statement was not a crucial factor in the attacks against soldier, but only a complete moron could twist that into a morbid desire to see Americans die. What other people say, or the fact that they choose to argue with name calling and jpegs should not be construed as representative of everyone on one side of an issue.”

“I certainly wasn't referring to, or trying to convince you, SMW.

Nigal just earned a dose of his own medicine is all.”

“I kind of wondered, but I had already posted it. I started it before you posted the latest stuff, but I didn't go back to see what had been posted in the meantime, as I'm wont to do.
Ahh well, no blood=no foul, to use the old hoops term.”

“Slinging ad hominems such as claiming your opponent is "eager to see these kids die" only underlines a weak position.


SEEM eager to see these kids die for for a cause that you refuse to examine.

Context is everything.”

“Well, like I said, I'm having my doubts about the "immediate threat" part. If there is "promising" evidence, as the group of senators that just returned from over there claims, they need to figure out what they can declassify and present to the public. Things are not looking too good right now.”