Rats off a sinking ship

“Published on Thursday, July 10, 2003 by the Guardian/UK
White House 'Lied About Saddam Threat'
by Julian Borger in Washington

A former US intelligence official who served under the Bush administration in the build-up to the Iraq war accused the White House yesterday of lying about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein.

Gregory Thielmann, served as a director in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence
The claims came as the Bush administration was fighting to shore up its credibility among a series of anonymous government leaks over its distortion of US intelligence to manufacture a case against Saddam.

This was the first time an administration official has put his name to specific claims. The whistleblower, Gregory Thielmann, served as a director in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence until his retirement in September, and had access to the classified reports which formed the basis for the US case against Saddam, spelled out by President Bush and his aides.

Mr Thielmann said yesterday: "I believe the Bush administration did not provide an accurate picture to the American people of the military threat posed by Iraq."

He conceded that part of the problem lay with US intelligence, but added: "Most of it lies with the way senior officials misused the information they were provided."

As Democrats demanded a congressional enquiry, the administration sharply changed tack. The defense secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, told the Senate the US had not gone to war against Iraq because of fresh evidence of weapons of mass destruction but because Washington saw what evidence there was prior to 2001 "in a dramatic new light" after September 11.

At a press conference yesterday, Mr Thielmann said that, as of March 2003, when the US began military operations, "Iraq posed no imminent threat to either its neighbors or to the United States".

In one example, Mr Thielmann said a fierce debate inside the White House about the purpose of aluminum tubes bought by Baghdad had been "cloaked in ambiguity".

While some CIA analysts thought they could be used for gas centrifuges to enrich uranium, the best experts at the energy department disagreed. But the national security advisor, Condoleezza Rice, said publicly that they could only be used for centrifuges.

Mr Thielmann also said there was no significant pattern of cooperation between Iraq and al-Qaida. He added: "This administration has had a faith-based intelligence attitude ... 'We know the answers - give us the intelligence to support those answers'."

Responding to claims of deliberate distortions, Mr Bush accused his critics of "trying to rewrite history" and insisted "there is no doubt in my mind" that Saddam "was a threat to world peace".

© Guardian Newspapers Limited 2003”

“Just plant some WMD stuff in there and get this over with.”

“Powell said there was never any "attempt on the part of the president or anyone else in the administration to mislead or deceive the American people."

Nope. never. don't know who would do that. what possible reason could Bush have for deceiving? Bush is a straight-shooter.”

“What about Powell's "8X10 color glossy photos with circles and arrows"?
The Bush administration wants to know what the definition of "lie" is.”

“HURRAY! I'M so HAPPY!”

“Well, I guess Bush is going to see what two simultaneous indeterminate guerrila wars will do to a president's popularity.

We lose a soldier per day. Most experts are now saying that we'll be there for 4 to 10 years. 365 times 4 is 1460. 365 times 10 is 3650. At current rates we are probably looking at 400 or 500 more deaths before the election.

Meanwhile, our best ally in Britain is on the ropes. We have few supportive friends in the world. And the economy is still in the doldrums.

Bad wars + Bad economy = Bad president”

“Ahhhh, remember the good old days when the chickenhawks were playing like doves and accusing the Clinton administration of spreading our forces around the globe and having no exit strategy?
Ya' gotta love the spin, don't ya?”

“They've already brought in weapons to plant ,but those Baath dudes keep stealing them.”

“Yeah......keep it civil”

“And just the other day I was reading that mr bush wanted more nuclear weapons. just what we need, a trigger happy president adding to the worlds largest arsenal of WMD's”

“The Fingerpointing Shall Now Commence.

Okay, now. Everyone stand in a circle and point to the person on your right.”

“"HURRAY! I'M so HAPPY!"
stratdewd
11:28:04 PM
07/10/03

??”

“Ecstasy.”

“Huzzahs and confabulations.”

“Oh, I thought that the fact that his wife was making him stay waway from TT was actually increasing his seratonin levels.”

“waway = away, of course.”

“Not much posting from the "conservative" side of TT these days.”

“Any Bush worshippers out there?”

“don't be gross, Dunadan. myself, i'm a tuna worshipper. the kind in the can! oh yeah baby.”

“From Tenet's mea culpa:

"Portions of the State of the Union speech draft came to the CIA for comment shortly before the speech was given. Various parts were shared with cognizant elements of the agency for review. Although the documents related to the alleged Niger-Iraqi uranium deal had not yet been determined to be forgeries, officials who were reviewing the draft remarks on uranium raised several concerns about the fragmentary nature of the intelligence with National Security Council colleagues. Some of the language was changed. From what we know now, agency officials in the end concurred that the text in the speech was factually correct, i.e. that the British government report said that Iraq sought uranium from Africa. This should not have been the test for clearing a presidential address. This did not rise to the level of certainty which should be required for presidential speeches, and CIA should have ensured that it was removed."


Could this be read as saying that the CIA was successful in getting the speech to read "according to British intelligence"? Were there negotiations and the CIA was satisfied that the careful wording was factual correct even though it was misleading?”

“ABUJA, Nigeria (CNN) -- President Bush said Saturday that he remained confident in George Tenet after the CIA director took responsibility for the now-discredited line in the State of the Union address alleging that Iraq was trying to buy uranium in Africa.

The White House now says the allegations were unsubstantiated. Bush thanked Tenet for "being my fall guy."”

“It is a little interesting that they wanted to impeach a President for having sex, but waging war for no good reason is OK.”

“Violin: that's the way it sounds to me. The Bush boys kept wanting to mention it and ramped up pressure for the CIA not to be a pain in the alpha - finally the CIA said they wouldn't object if they attributed they hedged by saying the British believe this.”

“times 2 what biz said.......”

“Remember,Clinton got into office because of the, "read my lips lie".Stop paying taxes,stop giving to churches,sierra club and all the other organizations that think and act at the fringes.Politics would be moved toward the middle,be there for real people,and begin to get rid of the crime element that runs this and all other countries.By legalizing many victimless crimes ,most criminals will be starved out of the crime business.”

“no, I don't remember. I distinctly remember Clinton getting into office 1) because we were tired of Bush and 2) universal health care

can you be a little clearer? not sure what you're trying to say

Phadreus, Ari Fleisher, rat numero Uno?”

“Holy Moly Uncliff: It was George Bush the first who campaigned on "read my lips, no new taxes."

Are you competing with Stratdewd for the fractured history prize?”

“They've already brought in weapons to plant ,but those Baath dudes keep stealing them."
uncliff
12:29:23 AM

LOL! Now that was funny.”

“Hello Ladies and germs! Just flew in from Iraq, and BOY are my right to bear arms tired!

Seriously, folks, Let's not go throwing the baaby out with the baath water, I think we're in good shape to find WMD in Goldilock's closet, right next to the little red riding boys in the hood!

Folks, I gotta tell ya, I'm seein some pretty amazing things in the news.

How amazing is it?!?

It's so amazing, I have to pinch myself to make sure George bush ain't dreamin! Heck, I figure if CNN gets any closer to Fox news, they're going to be the first news service to be removed from the airwaves by way of colonoscopy!

No, really, though, I'm sure that a president would never lie to us about something so important as going to war. What's that? I thought Ton Kin was a Toy truck!

Stop! Stop! You're too kind!

Okay, now, take the president... PLEASE!

Thanks! Be sure to tip your waiter! I'll be here all week.”

“that was supposed to say IS Ari Fleisher Rat numero uno (#1) or is he just coincidentally retiring?”

“oh wow, lookie there....15 liberals all pattin themselves on the back....couldn't ya'll have had this discussion at your secret meeting last night? nobody but you seems to be interested....


nice critical thinking

who would like to apologize to bush first?”

“Haaa haaa haa haahaa Haaa haaa haa haahaa Haaa haaa haa haahaa Haaa haaa haa haahaa Haaa haaa haa haahaa Haaa haaa haa haahaa Haaa haaa haa haahaa Haaa haaa haa haahaa Haaa haaa haa haahaa”

“You funny man.....”

“what was funny was watching all of the "critical thinking" reporters and liberals jump up and down yelling FORGERIE! FORGERIE!


your sence of integrity is the real joke of the matter....”

“You know very little of my integrity, but we are learing more and more about KY Bush's.

Check it out...

"CIA Director George J. Tenet successfully intervened with White House officials to have a reference to Iraq seeking uranium from Niger removed from a presidential speech last October, three months before a less specific reference to the same intelligence appeared in the State of the Union address, according to senior administration officials.

Tenet argued personally to White House officials, including deputy national security adviser Stephen Hadley, that the allegation should not be used because it came from only a single source, according to one senior official. Another senior official with knowledge of the intelligence said the CIA had doubts about the accuracy of the documents underlying the allegation, which months later turned out to be forged.

The new disclosure suggests how eager the White House was in January to make Iraq's nuclear program a part of its case against Saddam Hussein even in the face of earlier objections by its own CIA director. It also appears to raise questions about the administration's explanation of how the faulty allegations were included in the State of the Union speech."

Ooops, my bad......”

“tenet said it was his fault....in case you missed it...

he was a clinton appointee and should resign or be fired”

“"tenet said it was his fault....in case you missed it...

he was a clinton appointee and should resign or be fired"


Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha

Good one Strat.....”

“The buck stops with Clinton.....

Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha Haa Ha Haaa Haa Haaaaa Haa Ha”

“"I'm against this whole, 'Let's
bomb a new country because things aren't going our way.' It's the
cost of human lives I resent. To put American soldiers in harm's
way and to do everything to change the subject so that Republicans
can keep control of the House." --Tim Robbins, apparently believing
that all political positions, not just Left-maneuvers, are for
political rather than national security objectives


"Correspondents for The Washington Post, having failed earlier to
get traction with complaining dispatches about strategy, tactics,
quagmires and stalemates, are serving up a daily diet of gripes,
beef and lamentation. 'Rock bottom' seems to be the popular
destination. ...The occasional reporter, persuaded that there's
a Pulitzer in here somewhere if only he could find it, makes
bellyaching seem to be the universal order of the day." --Wesley
Pruden”

“Strat, do you now believe that it was the CIA's fault we invaded Iraq on false pretenses?”

“Tenet said he didn't stop Bush from saying it. Tenet took the fall for old George here. The buck don't stop at George's desk, it gets passed all over the place.”

“Uncliff: I realized you might have been arguing that Clinton got elected because of people's anger over Bush I's making and breaking the "read my lips" pledge. If so, I apologize for comparing your mastery of facts to Strat's.

I happen to believe Bush did the right thing when he compromised on the budget balancing bill and raised some taxes - undoing some of the Reagan excesses.”

“Even the Bush spinners are acknowledging that Tenet rejected a similar statement three months earlier. It's obvious that Bush was pushing hard to make the claim.

From the AP story:

Both Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and Condoleezza Rice... said CIA Director George Tenet had struck a similar but more narrowly focused assertion from a Bush speech in Cincinnati three months earlier.

Of course they also claimed the story was still true, but backed by British not US Intelligence.”

“It all depends on what your definition of the word “lie” is.


I’m not sure what your motivation was to post more non-sequitur quotations was strat, but that one by Wesley Pruden caught my eye. The Wash Post’s editorial position was very much in favor of war several months ago.”

“Colin Powell may well be the first to jump ship.

I'm sure he's plenty pissed at being used to make this administration appear to have integrity.”

“Give Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz the boot

By H.D.S. Greenway, 7/11/2003 Boston Globe

SECRETARY OF Defense Donald Rumsfeld stands at the head of the table. He has outmaneuvered all his Cabinet rivals and taken over many of the functions that used to belong to the State Department, the CIA, even the Justice Department. He dominates the Cabinet as no secretary of defense has done since Robert McNamara. He is also articulate, refreshingly if undiplomatically blunt, with a no-nonsense approach that is at times both witty and exactly to the point.


His deputy, Paul Wolfowitz, is often mentioned as the most brilliant person in government. He is perhaps the most influential deputy in modern times, at the top of his game. He has seen his vision of toppling Saddam Hussein fulfilled, and he is an intellectual force behind a whole new way of looking at US foreign policy.

But for all of that, both should be fired. Here's why.

The Iraq campaign, of which they were in charge, has been grossly mishandled. I use the word campaign because the overthrow of Saddam's army and regime was only the opening phase in what has to be, if this country is to maintain any credibility, an open and democratic society in Iraq. This may yet happen, but the current leadership of the Pentagon, through a fatal combination of hubris and incompetence, has so far bungled the job. If there were any accountability in the Bush administration, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz would be asked to resign.

First, the Pentagon civilians ignored advice early on from military men that more troops would be needed for the operation. This miscalculation of necessary troop strength left the lines of supply dangerously unguarded as American troops sped toward Baghdad. Once Baghdad fell, it was painfully obvious that there were not enough troops to maintain order.

Second, what policing was done had to be done by combat troops who are trained to kill, not police, so when demonstrations started, their only response was to shoot into the crowd. Rumsfeld dismissed the horrendous post-combat looting as just something that comes along with freedom - a comment that will remain around his neck like an albatross as the political and security situation in Iraq deteriorates. As the respected International Crisis Group said in a recent report: ''Even senior American civilians in Baghdad express consternation at the near-total absence of advance preparations for dealing with postwar needs.''

The Pentagon seems to have believed that Iraqi army units and policemen would come over to the American side with their forces intact and begin working for the Americans. It seems not to have occurred to them that another scenario might unfold, that the soldiers and police would simply melt away and that chaos would take over. The great failure of Pentagon planning was that there was no Plan B if Plan A failed. After trying to run Iraq on the cheap, Rumsfeld this week doubled his estimates for the cost of maintaining troops in Iraq.

It is not as if the Pentagon was not warned. In the lead-up to war, there were many voices from experienced experts and think tanks warning that the United States would need a substantial military police force to go in right after the troops. All were ignored, just as Robert McNamara ignored all advice about Indochina, only to say years later that he never knew.

Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz presided over what one diplomat calls a ''colossal miscalculation'' that may have more impact on this country than did the miscalculation at the Bay of Pigs four decades ago. All the effort that the armed forces took not to destroy vital civilian infrastructure went for naught because all was destroyed by postcombat looting. Although American soldiers quickly secured the Oil Ministry in Baghdad, nothing was done to protect museums, hospitals, vital offices - even nuclear facilities where radioactive material might have fallen into terrorist hands. Vital records that might have led us to weapons of mass destruction were also destroyed.

The damage done is incalculable, and not just in material terms. The political damage has been worse and will be far more lasting in its consequences. The Pentagon civilian leadership has squandered much of the good will that Iraqis felt after the yoke of the Ba'ath Party was lifted. Policy is in drift. Forces that are inimical to American interests are rushing in to fill that vacuum. A guerrilla war is gathering.

As America's first proconsul in Iraq, General Jay Garner, was fired when it was clear that his team had failed, so should his bosses at the top of the Pentagon civilian leadership be held accountable for this stunning failure to anticipate and plan ahead for a postwar Iraq. It is said that after the Bay of Pigs, President Kennedy told Richard Bissell, the CIA man in charge of the project, that under a parliamentary system it would be he, Kennedy, who would have to resign. But since it was not, it was Bissell who would have to go. George W. Bush should make the same speech now to Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz.”

“"Strat, do you now believe that it was the CIA's fault we invaded Iraq on false pretenses?"
Phaedrus

it was saddam hussein's fault we invaded iraq under perfectly valid UN sanctioned pretences.



"Tenet said he didn't stop Bush from saying it. Tenet took the fall for old George here. The buck don't stop at George's desk, it gets passed all over the place."
pedxing

i honestly believe that there is nothing bush could do to please you to the point that you would praise him in any way. that is the grain of salt that should be taken with all the liberal statements made on this forum.”

“Poor George.”