Horses & Hikers

“I'll tell you the truth (yeah right) and say this was a one and only time event for me. I NEVER drink and TT... (Sorry once again for the slanders earlier by the way.)

Sad thing is, 50% of the time I post on this board accounts for my days off of work and away from the trail (depression and withdrawls I guess). Sad to say, me and my Mrs. usually have "a few" home brews with friends on those days - and then I get on this board. Oh well, I dig my own grave I guess... :-)”

“hmmmmmmmm

My only experience with trail horses has been on Indian Reservations where they ride the horse to death then push the carcass to the side of the trail to rot.”

“No hard feelings Sierrapacktrip ...as I'm in college I'm drinking during most of my free time so I do a lot of stupid stuff on the forums and in the real world. Only when I'm on the trail I'm sober and normal.”

“cheers Dub.

(Dammit, now I almost want to fight with you again after all this fuzzy-huggy making up crap!)”

“Did I mention that I don't particularly like horses on the trail?”

“no way horses are awesome. Personally I can't ride :( Im afraid of horses up close but I love to see them out and about. I think animals on the trail is cool of any kind so long as you don't feel like riding ostriches. lol”

“the trails are for everyones use... i've seen hikers and riders that shouldn't be using the trail - leaving trash behind etc... etc... i've seen more hikers that leave tin cans in the fire ring than i can count horses that i've seen on the trail. as far leaving doodoo on the trail? i think that it would be riduclouse to expect them to pack it out? i'd love to meet a rider... they normally have a little six pack with them anyways... ha ha!”

“Golly, did you FG? I think I saw an earlier post by you on that subject....”

“My family and I hiked into the Grand Canyon last Xmas.
We were given the caution about encounters with the mule trains.
That is to step to the wall side of the trail and don't do anything to startle the animals.

The mule trains bring everything to and from Phantom Ranch.....including the beer!
And since the mules are roped into a train, any fall could be a HUGE disaster.
Its a long way down.

I did a backpacking trip to the Smokies a couple of years ago.
Some of the trails were for foot travel only.
And some of the trails were for horses too.
The trails where horses were allowed were littered with cigarette butts and some trash.....lazy so-and-so's!
These trails were deeply rutted too.
It was like walking in a trench in some places.

Just for the record;
I hiked 45 miles in Olympic National Park a few years ago and found two cigarette butts and one film can and a bit of llama crap.

I prefer to hike in places where horses are not allowed.

I'm proud to be a ground-pounder!
Those who ride horses should be respected, but most of them don't have stamina, guts, determination, fitness or real sense of adventure that some of us hardcore ground pounders have.
Part of the arrogance that some horse riders display is their own sense of inferiority or physical deficiency and petty jealously of those of us who can really KICK IT!

I'd just as soon give 'em a pass on the trail.
And for goodness sake, don't spook the horse!”

“Maybe this would help.

Diapered horses help clean up coast

”

“Its a BIG woods!”

“What a response! I’m just checking in and it took me forever to read all the replies.

I read back over my initial post and I want to apologize for coming across too strong. It wasn’t my intention to scold anyone, just educate. I did this a while back on a mountain bike forum (a group I generally have a lot more negative encounters with in person) and found them to be a lot more receptive to responsibly sharing the trails. I found that much of the problem is basically due to their lack of knowledge of the rules of multi-user trails. I figured it would be the same with backpackers but judging from many of your posts, I think part of it may be a basic attitude problem rather than ignorance.

The trails you are hiking on were built many years ago for pack animals. They brought your ancestors out here. Horsemen have adapted and let hikers, and then bikers and even ATVs in some cases use the trails that were built for and by them. The rules are that ATVs give way to everyone, bicycles yield to hikers and hikers yield to horses. You don’t walk down the middle of the highway, now do you? Horses are large, powerful beasts whose natural instinct is to run from perceived danger or kick in close quarters. The rules were designed for the safety of everyone.

Hearing your complaints about manure on the trail remind me of the city folk who move to a new subdivision built on former farm land and then demand that the farmer next door stop spreading manure on his fields. Leather and wool were here generations before the nylon and Gore-Tex crowd and will be here generations after you move on to the next fad. I don’t know anyone who gets off his horse 20 miles into the backcountry to clean up after his animal. I can just see it now – I’m shoveling manure into a bag when a mountain biker zips around the corner at 30 mph and sends my horse galloping off into the mountains. No thanks.

From the trash I pick up in campsites, my experience is that backpackers leave far more garbage than packers do. Certainly both groups need to do more to educate their ranks. Anyone who does this is a slob.

If the “multi-use” trails are too muddy or pockmarked from hooves for your tastes, why don’t you stick to hiker only trails or learn to use a map and compass and do some real hiking? People who take horses on hiker only trails deserve to be fined.

With a little courtesy, we can continue to share the trails. Again, my aim was to educate, not harangue.”

“Your horse may be able to shatter bone with one kick, but my .44 mag can shatter its skull and its walnut-sized brain with one shot

And Fatass Goose calls me a troll. It is to laugh.”

“I’m also curious about some of the threats made in this thread. Are Father Goose and Crazy Mike Backpacks “Trolls” or should I take them seriously? I’m pretty sure making threats like that is illegal.”

“The trail is big enough for all non moterized travelers. Mutual respect is the key. I don't care for horse trails so I don't hike 'em.”

“Hey pal, you talk about moving on to the next "fad".

I'd say riding horses is a fad, since it is no longer necessary or practical.

Humpin' trails is the only way to get to some of the places that us hardcore backpackers like to go.
And those of us who go to rugged places do serious physical training to be able to attain such places.

Some of the trails I hike in the Monongaghela NF were made for timber rail trains.

None of us ground pounders owes squat to the "horsemen" who came before us and "built" the trails.

The true horse trails/roads that date to the days when the horse was king, are deeply rutted trenches.

I still believe in staying out of the way of horse people for safety sake.

And another thing, backpackers are by far the most conscientious when it comes to cleaning up after themselves.
Hunters and horsemen are the worst.”

“CC Rider, if you don't want to have your life threatend, then don't bring up such an inflammatory subject. That is how things are on Trail Talk, read one of the threads about dogs or guns and you will see similar posts.”

“And another thing, your beloved horse trails out in the West were probably built by Chinese coolies and Irish hooligans swingin' picks and shovels and workin' for slave wages.

If you really want to be a man, try saddlin' a moose!

A little girl can ride a horse!”

“OK, did Tom just call all horsepackers girly men?”

“CCRider!

When I was in college, evangelical Christians would walk up to me in the student union and ask if I was saved. I'd say, "Yeah, I'm Catholic." This was like meat to the shark. They'd get more insistent and ask if I'd accepted JC as my lord and savior. Rather than explain that Jesus was central to Catholicism, I walked away with a bit of disgust.

These situations were unpleasant because: 1) These proselytizers didn't take the time to get to know me. They just came out of the blue. 2) They had predispositions about my beliefs. Catholics were not saved, in their mind. 3) The conversation was a one-way street. They would not be happy unless I gave up my Catholicism and became an evangelical Christian.

Why do I bring this up? Because this is exactly what you have done here. I have never seen a post by you on this board before. Build a history here and people will be more likely to listen.

To think that you will simply arrive on this board as some sort of Messiah and "educate" the great unwashed backpacking masses is ludicrous.

Read this and other boards. Understand that horse #&%!$ is very much unpleasant and that horses do create stresses on trails.

BTW, I've never had an unpleasant interaction with horsepeople. And well-cared-for trails can hold horses, bikes and walkers effectively. Don't make unnecessary enemies.”

“Hoo hoo ha ha ha ! ! !

Think of the U.S. Army and all its job classifications.

Though ALL the other jobs are necessary......it as all about the infantry!

Hoooooo-Ahhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

“Oh sure, but nothing stops Artillery!


Well, except counterbattery artillery...”

“CC rider, I bet if you had typed your first message with your head outside of your horse's rectum, you would have gotten nicer responses here. See, the people here at TT despise cruelty to animals, and we don't think it's right that your horse forces you to perform unnatural sex acts with it, on or off the trail. So, call this an intervention if you like- Until you stand up to that beast and report it as a child abuser, we will respond to any message from you in a negative manner.
Your posts identify you as an idiot- You insult every backpacker, and then get offended when a forum full of backpackers respond. It's simple logic- And yes, we can have attitudes. See, when the Horse Lords ruled the earth and they decided in their charity filled hearts to "allow" us to use their lands, there was some small print on the contract which said that no backpacker would ever be forced to hold their tongue if insulted by someone with less intelligence than the beast that does their walking for them.
Oh, and by the way, my intent here was to educate, not harangue, so that makes it all better now.”

“i like horses.....i like hikers....i like rice krispies....

if you got aproblem with hikers....stay on horse only traILS...and vise versa...

horse crap? puhleeze....step over it...heck i stomp right in the middle of it, just to make it splatter all over the place...

i have done alot of extended trail rides and it's a great way to see alot of backcountry in a short time. my brother-in-law raises spanish barbs(mustangs) that were bred for long rides on rough terrain.

as far as trash...there's a-holes in every bunch...TT is a perfect example.....”

“People are people. There are a-hole horse riders, and a-hole hikers, and, I suppose, a-hole bingo players.

I've met some really interesting people on horses. At RRG a pair of them talked to us for 20 min.

I met the-most-beautiful-girl-in the-world on a horse on the Superior Trail :-)

I just don't like what they do to the trail. At Waterloo-Pickney we did a stretch shared w/ horses and it SUCKED. Wide, sandy, loose, but what really bothered me was the dust we kicked up, 'cause I'm sure it was 90% hores crap.

We're all in this together folks...”

“hores = horses”

“hores crap is the worst!”

“Violin, this is great. It ALMOST tops Mountain Roamer, but not quite.”

“Infantry trumps cavalry.

Mo' steadier aim!”

“Tom T I've never seen you so fired up about something before! You have an argument with your wife this morning or something? ;)”

“I can tell you that I am not a Troll.By the way how long have you been posting on this message board CC?

I have been here almost 3 years and I have backpacked with more then 91 Trail Talk people off this board I think you are the one makeing problems.

Its like Reformed Lurker said things like this have been said before and I just think you are just like other people who want to get the flow a little faster here on TT.

Oh well I have said my mind time to go back to work.

8)”

“Like I said before they need trails only for them just like ATV'S & JEEPS!

8|”

“Whoa mule!

Fired up?

I was only trying to educate this horse guy( I won't say horse's ass, that'd be unkind)about ground pounders.......fad, my foot!

If you noticed, I said I like to stay out of their way.

There have been a couple of times when passing horsers have had a bit of trouble controlling their mounts.
The horses had gotten a little "spooky" because of us hikers.
One of them was jumpin' around gettin' pretty scary.
We cooperated with the riders and followed their recommendations.
I don't want to see anyone get hurt.....unlike some of these jokers on TT who wanna see "street justice".”

“Wow!

That guy really is CRAZY!

91 TT'ers?”

“yeah - but I only met him at the shelter and have never actually hiked with him so make that 90 and a half (BSEG)”

“Anyone going to see the movie Sea Biscuit next weekend?”

“Man, this troll's got y'all busy!
Stir the #&%!$.”

“You still haven't told me what part of Wyoming you live in.

I was hiking up Hardpan Creek near Cody a few years back when we came upon a outfitters camp. Stashed in the trees was more trash then I have ever seen in the backcountry. I really doubt it got there by backpackers as there was chairts, tables, kerosene, tin cans, pots, etc.”

“Chief, give it up, it's a troll.”

“I know, I'm just seeing if he really is from Wyoming. If he is, he probably knows where Hardpan Creek is.”

“A very successful troll.

Congrats!”

“Chief - I imagine this trolls from NJ.”

“I bet he really sad, for the same reason One Inch Wang is.”

“Tell the man about it, Tyrone!”

“No doubt another dumb troll!

8)”

“When an equestrienne kept leap frogging around me and passing too close, I told her if she did it one more time, I knew how to make horses jump. She stayed clear of me after that!”

“Thanks for not getting me over 100 posts in 24 hours you bunch of nincompoops.”

“98”

“99”

“100

How was that effort, violin?”