Trail Talk discussion in the House!

“WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Capitol Police were called Friday to a contentious House committee meeting marked by a Democratic walkout and accusations of name-calling, vulgarity and physical threats.

Witnesses described flaring tempers. One GOP lawmaker said he almost came to blows with a Democratic colleague he said was threatening him.

The police told lawmakers to work things out themselves and took no action.

The partisan bickering later spilled over onto the House floor, where Democrats and Republicans offered conflicting accounts about what happened in the Ways and Means Committee meeting on a pension plan bill.

The whole thing blew up, witnesses said, when Democrats complained of the way committee's Republican chairman, Rep. Bill Thomas of California, was running the session.

The Democrats said they needed more time to review some changes in the legislation after getting them only the night before.

When they could not to get a line-by-line reading of the bill, a common parliamentary tactic, they walked out and gathered to talk in a library at the back of the meeting room. Thomas, who has a reputation for being blunt, had his staff call the cops.

Democrats said Thomas called police to get them out of the room. Republicans said the police were called because one Democratic, Rep. Pete Stark of California, got out of hand.

Stark, they said, stayed behind after his colleagues left the committee room to berate Thomas and other committee Republicans.

According to a Democratic aide, the police came, scratched their heads, referred the matter to the Capitol sergeant at arms, who told the committee members to work it out themselves. The Democrats eventually left.

But the matter didn't end there.

Democrats and Republicans hurried to the House floor to denounce one another and give varying versions of what exactly happened.

And long-simmering resentments came to the surface with Democrats -- in the minority -- accusing Republicans of using heavy handed tactics to get what they want.

"We're not taking it anymore," declared House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, D-California.

But Republicans said it was the Democrats who started it.

Stark "threatened me with physical harm," said Rep. Scott McInnis of Colorado, a Republican who sits on the committee.

"I think it was entirely appropriate for the chairman of the committee to call the sergeant at arms and the Capitol Police," McInnis said. "I considered that a bodily threat and I fully intended to defend myself. To calm this down -- that is why the chairman did that."

Rep. Kenny Hulshof, a Missouri Republican who sits on the committee, read what he described as a transcript of the meeting.

In it, he quoted Stark as saying to McInnis, "You little fruitcake, you little fruitcake, I said you are a fruitcake."

And, according a Republican leadership aide, the 72-year-old Stark called Thomas a vulgarity.

Stark's office disputed that charge. "I just talked to the congressman, and he didn't say any such thing," said Lindsey Capps, Stark's press secretary.

Democrat John Lewis of Georgia likened the appearance of the police to his struggle against Southern police chiefs during the Civil Rights era.

"We will not be intimidated, we will not be immobilized; we live in a democracy and not a police state," Lewis said.

The outrage and indignation came fast and furious from both sides on the House floor.

"How outrageous," Pelosi said before introducing a resolution to condemn Thomas for the way he handled the hearing. The resolution failed on a party line vote.

"The Ways and Means Democrats were subjected to an indignity, an indignity no member should have to endure," said Pelosi.


"Make no mistake about this the police were summoned to remove these Democratic members because the chairman didn't want them in the room and for no other reason."

But Rep. Jim McCrery, R-Louisiana, said "the behavior of the minority ... warranted the sergeant at arms being called."

The legislation, by the way, remains before the committee. It would increase the amount of money Americans can put into retirement accounts and change some of the rules dealing with those plans. The bill is H.R. 1776.”

“he quoted Stark as saying to McInnis, "You little fruitcake, you little fruitcake, I said you are a fruitcake."

Bacpac is a congressman!”

“When will Demcrats learn that whining and tantrums are not an effective political platform?”

“They all need a time out!

but it would have been so much better televised...with a mud pit and thongs”

“I'd have liked to at least see someone get a Geraldo done on em!”

“They are already preparing for Jerry Springer! I love it!”

“The Democrats filed a resolution in protest. The debate is on CSPAN. What a bunch of whiners.”

“my money is on springer”

“Pistols at 15 paces.


Oh yeah, I forgot, handguns are illegal in Washington D.C..”

“I knew he'd fit perfectly in Congress. His show just prepared him for it. See ya Voinovich!”

“wow....sounds like a TT political thread.....

democrats don't know how to loose gracefully. they are completely cracking up and gnash their teeth harder with each coming day. their childish behavior(the bush jihad included) will backfire on them, just as it did on the republicans with clinton....














and they hit like girls...”

“they are still not over the presidentail election....”

“That ain't nothing. The current mayor of Philadelphia engaged in actual fisticuffs with another councilman in the early 1980s. That encounter devolved into rolling around in the aisles before they were separated.

It all hearkens back to the old political art of caning your opponent, a practice that sadly has been lost in history.”

“Lessee, if I remember my Congressional history correctly, didn't two Senators get into it during the trial of Andrew Johnson, with one beating the other nearly to death with his cane? On the floor of the Senate?”

“That's it, the lost art!”

“Pretty close Bit: It was a congressman from South Carolina, avenging an insult to his uncle who was a Senator, by beating the offending Senator (Sumner of Massachusetts) with a Cane - following a debate over Kansas in the 1850s. Sumner was a fervent abolitionist and wanted Kansas to be a
"free" stagte, while the other Senator (Butler) was pro-slavery and wanted Kansas to be a "slave" state.

I once lived on a street named for Sumner, which is how I got so interested in the guy.

I can't quote you the insults exchanged, but they were pretty intense.”

“Ah, politics before the Instant Media. Gloves off, and all that.”

“The Repubs on the committee are trying to skirt the proper process by not allowing the minority to read the changes to the bill before they vote.

72 year old Stark(D) called 50 year old McInnis(R) a little wimp and a fruitcake after the wimpy little fruitcake told the mean old man to "shut up".

Stark angrily challenged the younger "man" to "make me, you wimp/sissie/fruitcake".

Stark had stayed behind with the Repubs to make sure they didn't violate proper committee process by taking a vote with the Dems out of the room.

Apparently the wimpy little fruitcake felt threatened by a man in his seventies.

The fact is that the Capitol Police were called BEFORE the wimpy little fruitcake felt threatened by the mean old man.
The cops were called to bring the Demons back to the committee room BEFORE the aforementioned verbal conflict.

The notion that the cops were called because of physical threats is a LIE.”

“Here is part of it:
"I will say it," replied Sumner. "No person with the upright form of man can be allowed, without violation of all decency, to switch out from his tongue the perpetual stench of offensive personality. Sir, that is not a proper weapon of debate, at least on this floor. The noisome, squat and nameless animal to which I now refer is not a proper model for an American Senator.

I cut and pasted this from a very colorgul account at: http://www.sourcecentral.com/library/266-2.html”

“WASHINGTON (AP) -- Rep. Bill Thomas, one of the most powerful committee chairmen in Congress, told a somber House of Representatives on Wednesday that he exercised "poor judgment" last week when he called for the Capitol Police to help remove Democrats from a room where they were meeting.

"As my mother would have put it, `when they were passing out moderation, you were hiding behind the door,"' the California Republican -- a man known for his abrasive style -- said as he choked back tears.

Thomas noted that a columnist had described his action as "just plain stupid,' then added, "I agree with him."

Thomas' comments amounted to the act of contrition that fellow Republicans had sought in the wake of his role in a partisan meltdown last week in the Ways and Means Committee. But it fell short of the full-throated apology that Democrats clamored for, and Thomas defended another of his controversial actions on Friday, a decision to call House security officials to the committee's main meeting room.

Republicans vigorously applauded Thomas when he completed his remarks. Many Democrats stood and clapped, with less enthusiasm than the GOP lawmakers. Rep. Fortney Stark, D-California, whose verbal assault on a GOP lawmaker played a key role in last week's furor, applauded briefly from his seat.

Moments later, Rep. Charles Rangel, D-New York, the senior Democrat on the committee, thanked Thomas for his remarks, at the same time emphasizing the point Democrats have been making since the controversy erupted. "The minority has a right to be respected, to be heard ...to know what is in the bill," he said. Republicans have an obligation, he added, "to use not the rules that we make up as we go along, but the rules that have allowed this (House) to exist for over 200 years."

Thomas stepped to the rostrum in hopes of quelling days of controversy in a House divided narrowly along party lines.

"I learned a very painful lesson on Friday. As members you deserve better judgment from me and you'll get it," he said. "Because of my poor judgment those outside the House who want to trivialize, marginalize and debase this institution were given an opportunity to do so. Because of my poor judgment the stewardship of my party...has been unfairly criticized. Because of my poor judgment I became the focus of examination rather than the issues."

In a quarter-century in Congress, Thomas has developed a reputation for a confrontational, acerbic personality, as well as his knowledge of complex matters of tax, trade and other legislation. His ascension to the committee chairmanship three years ago brought him considerable power, and Republicans and Democrats alike -- including most recently a Senate Republican committee chairman -- have publicly accused him of high-handed tactics.

As liberal as Thomas is conservative, Stark has a history of insulting fellow lawmakers, and few if any Democrats have defended his conduct during the controversy. At the same time, Democrats continued to attack Thomas, and forced a second vote during the day on a proposal to criticize his behavior and send pension legislation, at the center of the dispute, back to committee. Republicans killed it on a 223-193 party line vote, much as they forced rejection of a similar proposal last Friday.

"Never before in our time in Congress have we seen such a blatant abuse of power by a committee chairman," Rep. Charles Rangel, D-New York, wrote all House members on Tuesday. "We were not breaking any rules of the House. We were meeting together, in an empty room commonly used by Republican and Democratic members alike, to develop our response to" the pension bill.

The controversy flared when Thomas had the Capitol police summoned during a committee meeting called to vote on the pension legislation. Democrats, claiming the bill had been changed overnight without their knowledge, moved into an adjoining library, leaving Stark behind to try to slow progress on the legislation.

But Stark soon was hurling insults at Rep. Scott McInnis, R-Colorado, calling him a "wimp" and a "fruitcake." The Californian later issued a statement acknowledging using "words that were not becoming."

Democrats claim the police were called to evict them from the library, and before Stark attacked McInnis verbally. Some Republicans say they were called out of fear that Stark might instigate a physical conflict.”

“Scumbag republicans.”

“I applaud Mr. Thomas for his courage to step forward and appologize. I could not, would not have done the same.

Mr. Stark was clearly out of order and out of control. Mr. Thomas made a prudent decision to call for security.

The Republican decision to mitigate partisan politics is commendable.”

“That's one way to look at it, bacpac!”

“I did not have sexual relations with that women!

sorta a polar opposite with that whole "honesty thing"”

“Uhhh, yeah, kinda the same sort of polar opposite as: "We believe Iraq has reconstituted nuclear weapons."”

“what a disgusting joke.....phaed, you are lieing....they DO believe that....you critical thinker , you”

“No, Strat, I don't believe that Cheney believed Iraq had nuclear weapons when he said that. I believe that was an outright lie.”

“That is why no one takes you seriously. Your judgement is clouded with irrational fears and conspiracy theories.”

“Bacpac, what you try to pass for judgement is nothing less than the sum of a bottle of Jamesons, a bad case of gas, and a penchant for bellicosity.”

“Irrational fears and conspiracy theories? That reminds me Richard Mellon Scaife and his tool, Ken Starr.

You should've seen Bill Thomas blubbering away on The News Hour just now. I hear Dennis hastert really read him the riot act.”

“I detest Irish whiskey. I fart on occasion, but you are much more belligerent than I.

Your opinion is poop.”