Wilderness etiquette, a survey

“While day hiking the Otter Creek Wilderness in the Monongahela National Forest last Friday, I noticed that there are a lot of campsites that are cleared for 50-100 yards, all located within 200 feet of both trail and stream. I felt that the campsites were pretty much eyesores - in some cases live trees were cut and in others all the understory was gone. This wilderness is otherwise primeval Monongahela rainforest.

The Forks of Red Creek in the Dolly Sods Wilderness is also pretty beat up.

In both cases, the destruction appears to be from concentrated overuse. Instead of following the precription to camp 200 yards from streams and trails, campers are setting up where others have before and spreading the destruction in all directions.

I'm curious what other backpackers think of this issue.

1] Do you feel that overused campsites detract from the wilderness experience?

2] Is it wilderness lovers loving wilderness to death or is it acceptable to you?

3] What management practices should be applied?

4] Are there other areas of the Monongahela that suffer from overuse?

5] Do wilderness areas in other parks or forest have similar problems? If so, please name them.”

“Thus, the prime conundrum of wilderness access.

Personally, I believe in concentrating the impact in a few places, rather than spreading it all over. Proper management would move those places every few years to allow recovery.

We see similar problems in the Sipsey, although the high impact areas are within a few miles of the trailhead. The deep wilderness is largely untouched, although it is still recovering from previous inhabitation and logging.”

“You went last Friday and didn't invite Me???

BUM!


Did you start at the mouth or head waters?

I have mixed feelings about those sites.
We sometimes arrive there at night and go a couple of miles up stream to a site on the flood plain between creek and trail.
This site is easy to find at night but is too close to trail and stream.
Otter Creek Trail does have too many sites too close to the trail.

Possession Camp site is one of my favorites but is right at a trail junction.
One would have to carve a site out of the rocks and rhododendron hells in that locale, which would require picks and shovels.

Dolly Sods is certainly being loved to death.
On a three-day weekend there one early November I encountered 70 to 80 backpackers.
That's a load of crap!”

“You've just raised another critical issue Tom, sanitation.”

“Places like the Monongahela National Forest, being relatively close to so many people, need more wilderness areas open only to foot travel and no resource extraction.”

“There is a wilderness campaign already under way. Prime locations are:

Dolly Sods expansion

Cranberry expansion

Roaring Plains (it would be in three parcels because of FS 70 and the pipeline)

Cheat Mountain

Seneca Creek backcountry

Other areas are being studies, but these are the prime areas.”

“I observed similar traits on the North Fork Trail. However, with NFT, most of the trail is along a narrow ridge, where you have to camp within 200 yards of the trail. There were other sites that hosted high volumes of hunting parties, and almost looked like RV parks in some areas.

I think LNT principles steer you to camp in areas already dmaged in order to preserve the pristine areas, if you had a choice. If you didn't have a choice, limit your impact anywhere that is 200+ yards from stream or trail.”

“I try to use existing sites even if they are too close.”

“What I have found out here in the Wild West is that the further from the trailhead I get, the less poorly located campsites I see. But even with careful and sensitive use of a location, signs of use will remain.”

“BB is right more poeple need to use LNT!!!!!!


8)”

“Taking down live trees and cutting out understory ain't overuse, its misuse.”

“Bump

Good comments. Thanks. Anybody else?”

“i tend to use existing campsites, if there are any. might as well not make mor impact, if that makes any sense.

maybe they should start charging hikers up there, give them permits and a little LNT speech. just a thougt...”

“1] Do you feel that overused campsites detract from the wilderness experience?
- Yes

2] Is it wilderness lovers loving wilderness to death or is it acceptable to you?
- acceptable

3] What management practices should be applied?
- When you are deep in a remote location, alone, solitude, thinking how long its been since someone has been there...you look down and see a rotting Mountain Dew can. Find that person who left it and burn down thier house.

4] Are there other areas of the Monongahela that suffer from overuse?
- You mouth.

5] Do wilderness areas in other parks or forest have similar problems? If so, please name them."
- Every public forest in the country.”

“How many people pack out their TP? I have been places (Point Reyes comes to mind) Where you can't go 10 feet without seeing a little wad of TP.”

“I don't pack mine out, but it does get buried along with rest of that mess.”

“Oh, I never minded too much about the little things.”

“1] Do you feel that overused campsites detract from the wilderness experience?

No - if you're in an overused campsite, you're NOT in the wilderness. Most likely you're a trail-rat wannabe.

2] Is it wilderness lovers loving wilderness to death or is it acceptable to you?

If they loved it, they wouldn't kill it.

3] What management practices should be applied?

Let mexicans cross the border to earn $1.50 an hour cleaning trash out of the forests.

4] Are there other areas of the Monongahela that suffer from overuse?

Yeah, that stupid name. "monongahela". Painful.

5] Do wilderness areas in other parks or forest have similar problems? If so, please name them.

Captain Obvious says: obviously.”

“If you like Monongahela you'll love some of the native names in Maine.

That statement about Mexicans is rather condescending.

Maybe you could get some Chinese Coolies to work even cheaper.”

“I'd rather have mexicans - they have the best weed.”

“3 weeks ago I was backpacking in Dolly Sods and camped in an established creekside campsite. I tend to agree with those here that say that to use an established site minimizes the impact elsewhere in the wilderness. This is similar to the management policy in the NP system where you are expected to stay in established sites and reserve them too.

That said, people need to police themselves better. I was disgusted at the amount of garbage left behind in that Dolly Sods site. Someone had built a 5-6 ft tall fire ring, aka chimney, complete with 2 oven boxes. The fire pit was full of cans, bottles, plastics, etc. and a tree nearby had been turned into a totem pole. It was decent work but still it was inappropriate. TP abounded.

I'm slowly warmng to the idea of a permit system. It won't guarantee an end to this sort of stuff but the funds could be used to purchase lands. A tax on gear similar to the Pittman-Robertson Act for hunting/fishing gear might work.

Another management idea would be to NOT maintain the trails and post signs, which I beleive they already are not doing. If it's wilderness why do we need that? Discourage the lame ass party animals from easily reaching the far off spots.”

“I ain't never been E. of the Missisippi, so I don't know the issue out there. Chief or Aero could elaborate on things around here, I guess, but I don't think we see too much of that overuse thing. In Yellowstone, but that place is crawling w/ tourists. I don't get out that much though. Maybe some of the other people from the MTpalooza could comment on it.”