WMD's Found!!!

“In the USA that is...



Deceit, danger mark U.S. pursuit of new WMD

By Heather Wokusch
Online Journal Contributing Writer

VIENNA, Austria, Aug. 2, 2003—Illegal biological and nuclear weapons production is on the rise—in the United States.

Ignoring the internationally recognized Biological Weapons Convention, the U.S. Army has patented a grenade capable of delivering biological and chemical agents.

The irony wasn't lost on the watchdog group Sunshine Project, which observed, "Hans Blix might have an easier time finding illegal weapons if he were inspecting near Baltimore [at the Army's Edgewood Arsenal facility, where two of the inventors work] instead of Baghdad."

The Pentagon's bid to resume biological weapons research hinges on misleading language: Developing deadly biological weapons is illegal, so the grenade and other potential biowar devices are labeled "nonlethal."

Similarly misleading language is being used to beef up the nation's nuclear weapons program. The House and Senate recently ditched the ban on researching low-yield nuclear devices, and approved funding for the Robust Nuclear Earth Penetrator, a bunker-busting weapon said to be 10 times more destructive than the Hiroshima bomb. The justification? Nuclear weapons will only be researched, not tested or deployed.

Small coincidence that the House and Senate simultaneously called for accelerated resumption of underground nuclear testing on U.S. soil. The message is clear: Research nuclear weapons today, test and deploy them tomorrow.

The Bush administration's race to get back into the biological and nuclear weapons business is alarming in a world struggling with weapons of mass destruction overload.

The secrecy and downright sloppiness of the U.S. weapons program, however, raises red flags.

Case in point: A whopping $6 billion has been earmarked to expand the U.S. biodefense program, and contenders have begun to abuse the public trust to get their hands on the money.

In February, for example, the University of California, Davis (UCD) took a full 10 days to inform nearby communities that a rhesus monkey had escaped from its primate breeding facility.

Coincidentally, UCD has been vying for government funds to set up its own "hot zone" biodefense lab, which in the future could use primates for biological weapons testing.

What if that monkey had been infected with Ebola or some other virus? Would the public have been informed?

In Maryland, home of the biowar grenade, the Pentagon recently unearthed more than 2,000 tons of hazardous biological waste, much of it undocumented leftovers of an abandoned germ warfare program. Meanwhile, the FBI drained a pond for clues into 2001's anthrax attacks that killed five people.

None of this does much to inspire trust in the U.S. biological weapons program; unfortunately, the situation is equally grim with the nation's nukes.

America's most reputable nuclear weapons facility recently announced it had "lost" two vials of plutonium; officials at New Mexico's Los Alamos National Laboratory have said the plutonium was probably mislabeled then accidentally discarded.

The missing plutonium doesn't bode well. According to Peter Stockton, senior investigator with the Project on Government Oversight, "We have virtually hundreds of tons of plutonium and enriched uranium in the system. This raises questions about the reliability of that system."

Meanwhile, thousands of radioactive materials have been lost or stolen worldwide, and the International Atomic Energy Agency estimates that more than 100 countries have inadequate controls over their radioactive devices.

The bottom line: In such a dubious environment, do we really need to invest in more homegrown WMD?

Apart from the ethical implications of using biological and nuclear weapons on civilians abroad, we should consider the risks these weapons programs create in this country.

Taxpayer dollars would be better spent cleaning up past bioweapon excesses and tracking loose nukes.”

“$6 billion spent on biodefense, and then dickhead republicans complain about paying taxes. So it's ok to throw money at biochemicals, but not ok to spend it on welfare. Republicans are scumbags.”

“

"When stars explode, the fragmented corpses they leave behind are nothing short of majestic."”

“Violin, you are mean. The title of this thread will have all of the neocons clicking it in anticipation. Then they will be disappointed. That's just mean. They need some shreds of evidence to begin crowing and liberal-bashing again. Please, throw them a bone. The abuse has been really lacking on this site lately.”

“Someone alert Bush, The worlds largest arsenal of WMD's has been verified and found in the hands of an aggressive nation. An attack on the US is expected soon...uh.er never mind.”

“Would you like some mustard on that?”

“Guldens spicy brown mustard gas?”

“These WMD's have not actually been 'found' yet. Maybe they do not exist.”

“wait till they look under my rose bushes.......heh heh”

“(CNN) -- Coalition forces have staged raids this week in Iraq that have netted a number of weapons and ammunition, U.S. Central Command said Wednesday, citing help from Iraqis.

Central Command said 18 operations have been conducted within the last 24 hours.

Acting on a tip, soldiers from the U.S. Army's 1st Armored Division raided the Baghdad house of a former Saddam Hussein loyalist and seized items including two AK-47s, 11 bayonets, more than 550 rounds of ammunition, two protective masks, 31 protective mask canisters, three swords, two axes and documents, according to Central Command. Four people also were arrested, the command said.

In other action in Baghdad, soldiers uncovered 500 ammunition rounds, 10 loaded AK-47 magazines and one rocket-propelled grenade, the military said.





Wow, 2 protective masks????

***AND*** 2 axes?

It's surely proof that Saddam has WMD.”

“I'm satisfied... ;-)”

“Let's resume the bombing.”

“axes of evil? oh the horror of it all.”

“This time in North Carolina:

Prosecutor fighting meth using law that punishes terrorism
By FROM STAFF AND WIRE REPORTS citizen-times.com
July 16, 2003 10:29 p.m.

BOONE - A Watauga County prosecutor is using a law intended to combat terrorism to fight the spread of methamphetamine laboratories in northwest North Carolina.

District Attorney Jerry Wilson has charged Martin Dwayne Miller, 24, of Todd with two counts of manufacturing a nuclear or chemical weapon in connection with a methamphetamine arrest Friday. Miller also is charged with eight other drug-related offenses.

He was being held in the Watauga County Jail under $505,000 bond.

"This is a two-edged sword," Wilson said. "Not only is the drug methamphetamine in itself a threat to both society and those using it, but the toxic compounds and deadly gases created as side products are also real threats."

In Buncombe County earlier this month, authorities found evidence of a drug lab at a Black Mountain motel.

State Bureau of Investigation agents searched a room at the Apple Blossom Motel on July 7. They found chemicals and glassware used to produce methamphetamines, according to a search warrant.

In May, officers charged a Swannanoa man with operating a meth lab in his bathroom. Paul Wilson, 38, faces four felony drug charges. The Metropolitan Enforcement Group, a local drug enforcement agency, conducted the investigation.

"We're getting our first shock of it here now," Lt. Scott Allen of the agency said of meth production in May.

The most serious drug charges related to methamphetamine carry much lighter sentences than the weapons of mass destruction law.

The law carries a sentence ranging from 12 years to life in prison on each count. Wilson said he decided to use it while researching ways to slow the advance of methamphetamine into the region.

The law reads, in part, that the term nuclear, biological or chemical weapon of mass destruction applies to "any substance that is designed or has the capability to cause death or serious injury and ... is or contains toxic or poisonous chemicals or their immediate precursors."

The chemicals used to manufacture methamphetamine are toxic and highly combustible.

Officials with the N.C. Administrative Office of the Courts and the N.C. Attorney General's Office said they thought that the Watauga County charges are among the first filed under the weapons of mass destruction statutes.”

“Give it a rest! Smoke your peace pipe and watch some cartoons!”

“Go soak your head, UpUrs >:[”

“Scary face Tom. =80”

“Ooooo, I like it!”

“That'll never fly. The guy wasn't manufacturing meth to use as a weapon, so they'll never meet the intent requirements. His intent was to manufacture a drug to sell, not a weapon to use.”

“Juat take away the dude's Harley.”

“Columbia Nitrogen, Acadian Fertilizer and Proctor & Gamble better watch their ass! LOL

Who's Next, I Wonder?”

“WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Defense Department sold equipment to the public that can be used for making biological warfare agents, according to a draft report by the General Accounting Office.

The Defense Department agency responsible for the sale of excess property to the public, the Defense Reutilization and Marketing Service, halted the sale of such items September 19 while the practice is reviewed.

"Many items needed to establish a laboratory for making biological warfare agents were being sold on the Internet to the public from DoD's excess property inventory for pennies on the dollar, making them both easy and economical to obtain," the GAO draft report said.

"According to the GAO, due to poor controls, there is little assurance excess [chemical-biological] equipment has not already fallen into the wrong hands," a subcommittee statement said.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/10/06/gao.pentagon/index.html”

“Does this mean we have to invade ourselves?”

“In my pants.”

“Does this mean we have to invade ourselves?

No, it's protected by the Second Amendment.”

“See, one fourth of your tax dollar goes to paying off the debt. But, the so-called fiscal conservatives like to go into debt. It's the new world order of "spend and spend conservatives".

At least they are compassionate.”

“Wednesday, October 22, 2003 Posted: 8:38 PM EDT (0038 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The FBI and postal authorities are investigating traces of the deadly toxin ricin found last week in a sealed envelope at an airport postal handling facility in Greenville, South Carolina, the Department of Homeland Security said Wednesday.

Authorities said the envelope contained an unsigned, threatening note that "demanded an action," but they said no connection to terrorism was apparent.

One law enforcement official said the note expressed anger over legislation regulating the trucking industry.

"Based on the evidence obtained so far, we do not believe this is linked to terrorism but is related to threats criminal in nature," DHS spokesman Brian Roehrkasse told The Associated Press.


Another responsible NRA member, or some lunatic like laqtis who wants to start a revolution.”

“

There they are. Whew! Glad we got THOSE out of the terrorist's hands.”

“Those rusted-out things could have been launched at Kuwait. Just think of that.”

“Well, if they're going to claim that the Bush administration lied, then there sure are a lot of other people, including quite a few prominent Democrats, who have told the same lies since the inspectors pulled out of Iraq in 1998. Here are just a few examples of what I'm talking about...

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." -- From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

"This December will mark three years since United Nations inspectors last visited Iraq. There is no doubt that since that time, Saddam Hussein has reinvigorated his weapons programs. Reports indicate that biological, chemical and nuclear programs continue apace and may be back to pre-Gulf War status. In addition, Saddam continues to refine delivery systems and is doubtless using the cover of a licit missile program to develop longer- range missiles that will threaten the United States and our allies." -- From a December 6, 2001 letter signed by Bob Graham, Joe Lieberman, Harold Ford, & Tom Lantos among others

"Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright, 1998

"Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

"The last UN weapons inspectors left Iraq in October of 1998. We are confident that Saddam Hussein retained some stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons, and that he has since embarked on a crash course to build up his chemical and biological warfare capability. Intelligence reports also indicate that he is seeking nuclear weapons, but has not yet achieved nuclear capability." -- Robert Byrd, October 2002

"What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

"The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998

"In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

"I am absolutely convinced that there are weapons...I saw evidence back in 1998 when we would see the inspectors being barred from gaining entry into a warehouse for three hours with trucks rolling up and then moving those trucks out." -- Clinton's Secretary of Defense William Cohen in April of 2003

"Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

"Saddam Hussein's regime represents a grave threat to America and our allies, including our vital ally, Israel. For more than two decades, Saddam Hussein has sought weapons of mass destruction through every available means. We know that he has chemical and biological weapons. He has already used them against his neighbors and his own people, and is trying to build more. We know that he is doing everything he can to build nuclear weapons, and we know that each day he gets closer to achieving that goal." -- John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

"I share the administration's goals in dealing with Iraq and its weapons of mass destruction." -- Dick Gephardt in September of 2002

"Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002

"We are in possession of what I think to be compelling evidence that Saddam Hussein has, and has had for a number of years, a developing capacity for the production and storage of weapons of mass destruction." -- Bob Graham, December 2002

"We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

"I will be voting to give the president of the United States the authority to use force - if necessary - to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." -- John F. Kerry, Oct 2002

"We begin with the common belief that Saddam Hussein is a tyrant and a threat to the peace and stability of the region. He has ignored the mandates of the United Nations and is building weapons of mass destruction and the means of delivering them." -- Carl Levin, Sept 19, 2002

"Over the years, Iraq has worked to develop nuclear, chemical and biological weapons. During 1991 - 1994, despite Iraq's denials, U.N. inspectors discovered and dismantled a large network of nuclear facilities that Iraq was using to develop nuclear weapons. Various reports indicate that Iraq is still actively pursuing nuclear weapons capability. There is no reason to think otherwise. Beyond nuclear weapons, Iraq has actively pursued biological and chemical weapons.U.N. inspectors have said that Iraq's claims about biological weapons is neither credible nor verifiable. In 1986, Iraq used chemical weapons against Iran, and later, against its own Kurdish population. While weapons inspections have been successful in the past, there have been no inspections since the end of 1998. There can be no doubt that Iraq has continued to pursue its goal of obtaining weapons of mass destruction." -- Patty Murray, October 9, 2002

"As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -- Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

"Even today, Iraq is not nearly disarmed. Based on highly credible intelligence, UNSCOM [the U.N. weapons inspectors] suspects that Iraq still has biological agents like anthrax, botulinum toxin, and clostridium perfringens in sufficient quantity to fill several dozen bombs and ballistic missile warheads, as well as the means to continue manufacturing these deadly agents. Iraq probably retains several tons of the highly toxic VX substance, as well as sarin nerve gas and mustard gas. This agent is stored in artillery shells, bombs, and ballistic missile warheads. And Iraq retains significant dual-use industrial infrastructure that can be used to rapidly reconstitute large-scale chemical weapons production." -- Ex-Un Weapons Inspector Scott Ritter in 1998

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years. And that may happen sooner if he can obtain access to enriched uranium from foreign sources -- something that is not that difficult in the current world. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Saddam’s existing biological and chemical weapons capabilities pose a very real threat to America, now. Saddam has used chemical weapons before, both against Iraq’s enemies and against his own people. He is working to develop delivery systems like missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles that could bring these deadly weapons against U.S. forces and U.S. facilities in the Middle East." -- John Rockefeller, Oct 10, 2002

"Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Administration’s policy towards Iraq, I don’t think there can be any question about Saddam’s conduct. He has systematically violated, over the course of the past 11 years, every significant UN resolution that has demanded that he disarm and destroy his chemical and biological weapons, and any nuclear capacity. This he has refused to do. He lies and cheats; he snubs the mandate and authority of international weapons inspectors; and he games the system to keep buying time against enforcement of the just and legitimate demands of the United Nations, the Security Council, the United States and our allies. Those are simply the facts." -- Henry Waxman, Oct 10, 2002”

“Bush wanted to invade Iraq BEFORE 9-11, he asked his people to come up with a reason. When 9-11 happened he used it, along with very suspicious claims of WMD as an excuse. He used the death of thousands of Americans to further his own goals.

The problem I have with the whole sorted mess, is...HE LIED. If he would have just said, My daddy screwed up and didn't finish the job, I might have some respect for him, he is just as bad as Clinton.....worse actually.”

“Oh yea.....where the hell are the WMD?????”

“Hi mtnsteve! I was wondering how Bush Sr. screwed up? The stated goal of the Gulf War was to get Iraq out of Kuwait, NOT kill Sadam. We succeeded. In fact, the U.S. showed restraint when it was a turkey shoot on the fleeing Iraqi soldiers along the highway, we could've just cleaned up all the way to Baghdad back then, but that was not our purpose. Bush Sr. and the coalition was to simply oust the invading Iraqi army out of Kuwait. Why do libs now scream for blood back then? We should've KILLED Saddam back then? Where's your sensitivity? Where's your tolerance? Why cry for the blood of Kuwait's enemy?

As for the WMD's, mtnsteve, even the U.N. knew Saddam had WMD's, if not, why for the last 12 years did they demand to go into a sovereign nation and have unfettered access to the entire country to look for them, and why did Saddam always make it so difficult for them to do so? Even the liberal Democrats KNEW Saddam had WMD's, he had used them in the past, and he didn't account for all his WMD's. All we did was go in there and VERIFY FOR OURSELVES what Saddam refused to do himself. When there's doubt, and a madman, and WMD's at issue, you don't trust the madman. The same madman YOU wanted Bush Sr. to slaughter way back then, but now you trust him? That's what I don't understand. Well, I think I do understand, it's just that liberals don't like Bush, so no matter what he does, good or bad, it's gonna piss them off.

Check out the actual quotes from bacpac above, did you not read them? Were the liberal democrats lying to us back then too? Why did Clinton, AFTER he left office, say he knew there were still unaccounted for WMD's to Larry King? The fact is, there were, and still are, unaccounted for WMD's. Regardless of political differences, I like you and respect you. Hi.”

“Bush wanted to invade Iraq BEFORE 9-11, he asked his people to come up with a reason. When 9-11 happened he used it, along with very suspicious claims of WMD as an excuse. He used the death of thousands of Americans to further his own goals.

The problem I have with the whole sorted mess, is...HE LIED. If he would have just said, My daddy screwed up and didn't finish the job, I might have some respect for him, he is just as bad as Clinton.....worse actually."
mtnsteve
08:40:50 PM
01/10/04

Can you say conspiracy theory?

I love conspiracy theories ”

“Keep watching the news, you'll catch up with whats new pretty soon, lots of interesting stuff coming out.

Funny how it always comes down to Liberals don't like Bush...you keep ignoring all the Conservatives that have the same questions...people in his own party are asking themselves, What the hell is he thinking.

I know many Republicans that are mad as hell...guess they are really closet Liberals, huh.

Oh yea....show me the WMD!!!!!

Oh thats right, ya cant, huh.

I like you too Buck.”

“Keep your eye on the news bacpac...it's coming to a station near you.”

“Reality TV?”

“Bush lied. I wanted a war too when I was under the impression that ole' Saddam had stockpiles of banned weapons, and was a danger of him using them. But that is what happens when people are lied to. Once we have found out we have been lied to, we reverse our opinion, and vote the SOB out of office.

The fact that conservative sheep baaaaaaa, about Saddam being a bad guy, and the world is better off is just a horrible spin on the situation. Saddam has been a bad guy for years, yet we didn't oust him. The reason we went to war was to eliminate threats of WMDs, period.”

“Check out 60 minutes tomorrow night, bacpac.



From the Libertarian CATO institute (not exactly a bunch of knee jerk libs):

Making U.S. Voters Happier, Not Safer
by Doug Bandow

Doug Bandow is a senior fellow at the Cato Institute and the author of "Tripwire: Korea and U.S. Foreign Policy in a Changed World."

"The capture of Saddam Hussein has not made America safer," declared Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean, and denunciations have rained down upon him. But Dean obviously was correct: "The capture of Saddam does not end" the coalition's difficulties in Iraq.

Hussein's capture is good news for the Iraqis. But his seizure has not made the world safer.

"Saddam Hussein is a homicidal maniac, brutal dictator, supporter of terrorism and enemy of the United States, and there should be no doubt that America and the world are safer with him captured," said Sen. Joseph Lieberman, a Connecticut Democrat.

And Hussein was all of those things. But Hussein was ousted as Iraq's president months ago. The pitiful thug hiding in a small, underground chamber had no ability to threaten anyone. Moreover, Hussein's arrest highlights the fact that he doesn't appear to have ever threatened America's security. He apparently never possessed the kind of weapons that would have endangered the U.S.

Embarrassed by the failure to find any weapons of mass destruction, or WMD, the Bush administration has simply attempted to change topics. Officials emphasize that Hussein is a bad guy - true, along with North Korea's Kim Jong Il, Iran's passel of mullahs and quite a few other dictators around the world.

But before the war, U.S. President George W. Bush said "the threat from Iraq stands alone," since that nation's "weapons of mass destruction are controlled by a murderous tyrant."

Secretary of State Colin Powell was quite specific in his U.N. Security Council presentation: "Saddam Hussein could have produced 25,000 liters" of anthrax and had accounted for none of it. "Saddam Hussein has never accounted for vast amounts of chemical weaponry: 550 artillery shells with mustard [gas], 30,000 empty munitions and enough precursors to increase his stockpile to as much as 500 tons of chemical agents."

Added Powell, Iraq had stockpiled "enough agent to fill 16,000 battlefield rockets." He calmly asserted, "Saddam Hussein has chemical weapons" and asked "when will we see the rest of the submerged iceberg?" Probably never, since we haven't yet seen the visible part of the iceberg. Not one thimbleful of these materials has turned up.

Same goes for the "large, unaccounted-for stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons -- including VX, sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas; anthrax, botulism, and possibly smallpox" -- of which Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has spoken.


Reported David Kay, who headed America's Iraq Survey Group, which has been searching for WMD: "Information found to date suggests that Iraq's large-scale capability to develop, produce and fill new CW munitions was reduced -- if not entirely destroyed -- during Operations Desert Storm and Desert Fox, 13 years of U.N. sanctions and inspections."

Bush claimed that "we found biological laboratories." Really? "We have not yet been able to corroborate the existence of a mobile biological weapons production effort," admitted Kay.

Finally, Powell pointed to unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs), or drones, that "are well suited for dispensing chemical and biological weapons." In fact, Sen. Bill Nelson, a Florida Democrat, says that the administration used a classified briefing to claim that Iraq had the capability of hitting American cities with UAVs. No ocean-spanning UAVs have been discovered.


Of course, maybe someone will eventually find something. And Hussein seemed to preserve program elements in the hopes of a future revival. But that isn't the same thing.

Said Kay: "It clearly does not look like a massive, resurgent program, based on what we discovered." Charles Duelfer, former deputy director of the U.N. inspections program, said: "It will probably turn out, in my judgment, that there are no existing weapons in Iraq, and that mildly surprises me."

Bush has taken a different tack. When pressed by ABC TV's Diane Sawyer on the issue, Bush responded that there was a "possibility" Hussein could acquire them. "So what's the difference?" asked Bush? Well, any number of governments could do any number of bad things. That doesn't mean that you have to bomb them today.

Even if Iraq had WMD, Hussein could have been deterred, as were Russia's Joseph Stalin and China's Mao Zedong, the two greatest mass murderers in human history (based on simple numbers). In fact, Gen. Waffic al Sammarai, head of Iraqi military intelligence during the Persian Gulf War, reported that implicit U.S. nuclear threats deterred Hussein from using WMD then: "The warning was quite severe and quite effective. The allied troops were certain to use nuclear arms and the price will be too dear and too high."

Everyone is better off with Hussein out of power. But he apparently had no WMD, and thus was no threat to the U.S. or other allied states. Alas, America may ultimately find that it has made a more dangerous world by loosing the "dogs of war" in the Mideast.”

“So Bush lied, but everyone else who said the same thing was telling the truth???

I will give Buddha a pass, because he is an admitted Union Socialist schill, but the rest of you should know better.”

“The info. that those quoted congressman and other leaders was from who's intelligence?”

“You guys spoiled the suprise.....


His own people are now starting to talk.


More of them damn Liberal Bush haters.”

“Hi mtnsteve! Where are the throngs of Republicans who are mad as hell about Bush's Iraq policy, as you say?

Also, what did Bush lie about? I keep hearing this, but lie about what? Did Bush admit he used CIA data on the Niger thing that wasn't truly verified, not proven wrong or anything, but just unverified but still defended as true by the British intelligence? Yep. Did all the Democrats lie who said Saddam had WMD's? Why say he was lying when most all of Congress lied to, on both sides of the aisle? No, it wasn't lying at all, not by the Repubs nor the Dems. It was the truth... Saddam had WMD's for a fact, and he hadn't accounted for them and he refused to account for them. When a madman refuses to account for the WMD's he was KNOWN to have, and no one knows where they are, then you must go in and verify yourself. That's what we did. Thank God we have a President who won't play those silly childish games with Saddam like so many others were willing to do for a decade.

As far as "time", yes, time will tell. And I think you'll be surprised as well. But who knows, it's all speculation. One big difference between libs and conserves is that conserves are naturally happier people (see latest Gallop poll), and conserves are more likely to be optimistic and give the bennie of the doubt, while libs just wanna doubt everything and attack with angry accusations. But hey, it takes all types to make this world go 'round, it's all good, man!”

“Former henchmen... like Paul O'Neill, LOL”

“Former republican voters like Buddha Bear, also.”

“I personally know of four staunch conservative repubicans who are ready to vote for anybody but Bush, all because they feel they were taken for a pre-conceived ride.

Admittedly, that's hardly a scientific survey, but it gives me hope!”

“7 March 2003
"Based on thorough analysis, the IAEA has concluded, with the concurrence of outside experts, that these documents - which formed the basis for the reports of recent uranium transactions between Iraq and Niger - are in fact not authentic.

We have therefore concluded that these specific allegations are unfounded."

UN nuclear inspector Mohamed ElBaradei's report to the UN Security Council



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


3 July 2003

"It is very odd indeed that the Government asserts that it was not relying on the evidence which has since been shown to have been forged but that eight months later it is still reviewing the other evidence... We recommend that the Government explain on what evidence it relied for its judgement in September that Iraq had recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa. We further recommend that in its response to this Report the Government set out whether it still considers the September dossier to be accurate in what it states about Iraq's attempts to procure uranium from Africa in the light of subsequent events."

House of Commons Foreign Affairs Committee report”

“Phaedrus, you can take four, or four dozen, or four thousand, or four hundred thousand staunch conservatives upset at Bush... I just thought mtnsteve was talking about REAL numbers, not just one or two or four. Of course no politician is gonna be able to keep all members of his own party happy... there are liberal repubs and moderate repubs and conserve repubs... any one single decision is gonna piss people off in the other repub camps. I, for one, am not happy with the deficit spending, nor this legalized alien thing, but that doens't turn me into a Bush-hater or someone who despises him. I guess I'm understanding that there are different interests and views at work, and not all of them will conform to mine, and if I got pissed off anytime someone makes a decision that conflicts with my idealism, I guess that would just make me a liberal. (rimshot) Ha ha! Just kiddin'!”

“Fascinating how the parameters of an argument change from moment to moment with you.

Funny how it always comes down to Liberals don't like Bush...you keep ignoring all the Conservatives that have the same questions...people in his own party are asking themselves, What the hell is he thinking.

I know many Republicans that are mad as hell...guess they are really closet Liberals, huh.


This is what you were responding to. If I make my guess, MTNSteve is telling you that it's not just liberals and democrats that are calling for answers. Don't take that for more than it is.

Also, if I make my guess, MTNSteve is telling you this in order to get you to stop labelling every criticism of GW as liberal ideology.”