National Geo/TOPO! users

“I'm testing the waters to see if any NG/topo software owners might give me a hand. If not too much trouble could some trace a route and profile for moi?

I'll be making a 6-day loop in Emigrant Wilderness, CA. The route is as follows...

Day 1: Kennedy Meadows - Iceland Lake
Day 2: Iceland Lake - Lewis Lakes
Day 3: Lewis Lakes (xcntry over Granite Dome - Wire Lakes
Day 4: Wire Lakes - Emigrant Meadows Lake
Day 5: Emigrant Meadows Lake - Kennedy Lake
Day 6: Kennedy Lake - Kennedy Meadows Resort.

I'm especially curious about the profile. If someone has some spare time could you post it somewhere (webshots,your website, email)? If more info is needed just holla. I know this may be tedious so I understand if I get no takers. Oh, this hike will be posted on the trips page for early Sept. sometime in the next couple weeks. Thanks.”

“I have booked marked everything but...

Could Emigrant Meadows Lake also be called Relief Reservoir?

Is Kennedy Meadows Resort in Kennedy Meadow (seems likely) near Deadman Campground?

Once I bookmark everything, it shouldn't be to much trouble to connect the dots.....I may mess with ya on the x-c part though ;)”

“You rock Steve!!!

Emigrant Meadows Lake is situated between Brown Bear Pass & Emigrant Pass, NE of Emigrant Lake.

Yeah, Kennedy Meadows and Kennedy Meadows Resort are the same. I do believe there is a Deadman Camp in the vicinity.

Don't mess with me too much on the x-country part. That's the location of the missing hiker from a year or two ago. He fell 40 feet, broke both ankles, and hiked out after a week. During the SAR a helicopter slid off of Granite Dome. I don't want that on my conscience. :) I have a 3MB .jpg of the route I could email ya.”

“OK, I'll be nice......

Go ahead and email me the jpg...I don't have to go to work will the 18th, so I got some time to do this.”

“Steve, you've got mail. At hotmail & excite.”

“That's a great area Rockman. I've been to Kennedy Lake a few times. In fact the picture on my website logo was taken near there.”

“I have a route drawn out for ya'. I actually looked into a very similar route that Geezr and I were thinking of a while back, so I already had most of it. Seems like there are lots of options, particularly on the XC segments, so my route may not match what you have in mind. I've found that XC travel in Emigrant is pretty easy because of the lack of bushes, etc.

Didn't see an email address in your profile - how d'ya want it?”

“LOL, your mail box is going to get very full soon. I just sent you a map with a VERY rough route to Lewis Lakes and past the Dome, let me know if that is what you had in mind. If Martyb is ok with it, I wouldn't mind seeing his route for this trip...looks like something I may want to do.

I just added the new map to the other on Webshots, use "View Full Size".

It should show up here when they get around to loading it.”

“Mtnsteve, I just emailed you my .tpo file - check it out....”

“Mntsteve, all looks good. The x-cntry part is close enough. I just didn't want to be climbing walls. Do you have capability to make daily profiles for the entire rounte?

Martyb, yeah, I remember you and Geezr conjuring up a hike in Emigrant last winter. What ever came of the trip? Sorry about the email. I can be reached at wgmchugh@yahoo.com. TT doesn't allow me to change addresses from that of which I joined with. I guess I'll have get in touch Matt. So, yeah, send me your version of your map. I doubt I can read it with the .tpo extension. Do you have a .jpg of it?

Hikingmike: a couple years ago I had hiked from Gianelli cabin via salt lick, long lake, deer lake to upper buck lake and back to crabtree. Quite scenic. I've always heard about the Granite Dome area and definitely want to fish that area.

Thanks for your help everyone.”

“If I'm not mistaking the Granite Dome Lks support some Goldens. I did my extended trip in Emigrant. We started at Leavitt and ended at Pinecrest. Visited Harriet Lk, Emigrant Pass, M. Emigrant Lk, Emigrant Lk, Bucks Lks, Cow Meadow Lk (mosquito hell), Woods Lk, Deer Lk and Camp Lk. Thunderstorms almost every day.”

“Hey Rockman, I tried to email you the jpg (about 3 megs), but it bounced because it's too big. I'll try to post it on my webshots site tonight or tomorrow, although I may not get to it because I'm about to leave on vacation - I'll let you know if I get to it.”

“OK Marty. THANKS!

Dunk, yeah, the lakes around Granite Dome are supposed to be some of the finest for goldies in Emigrant. I'm doing this hike specifically for a last days of summer fishing finale. I hope to catch a couple of those 24" 'bows rumored to be in Wire Lakes, Emigrant Lakes, and Kennedy Lake.”

“Marty gave me the OK to post this on my Webshots, it's 100k rather then 7.5....it was the only way I could figure out how to get the entire map on one page.... Great work Marty.

Here is the profile for Martys route.

These are way cool......”

“Wow, That's great. Marty's route is almost identical to the one I had in mind. I not into peak bagging but I was thinking I might as well go up Granite Dome and sign the register. Thanks for the profile Marty!”

“Hey, that turned out great, mtnsteve - at the 100k level it looks fine to get an idea of the route. For the XC sections, Rockman, you'll probably want to just look to where you want to go and walk that direction - not too much need for detailed mapping in much of that area.

BTW, I've fished in both Kennedy and Wire Lakes - and caught fish easily both times. Nothing like a 24-incher, but nice pan size. Also, the trip Geezr & I were thinking about just didn't materialize because he & Weezr moved, he had some surgery, etc. I was actually supposed to lead a group from work on a trip over Labor Day weekend (we already have a permit for 15 people) out of the Gianelli trailhead, but work and preparation (then unpacking) for my vacation was just too much and I've now bowed out. I may try to take Cameron (age 8, and already a 5-year veteran of Emigrant hikes) up for a quick trip in October if there's not too much soccer going on....”

“I'm going over to Nat'l Geo's offices in SF tomorrow night for a market research session. They contacted me a couple weeks ago, and I agreed to do it. Not sure what the format will be or how many people will be there, but it should be interesting. They will probably ask me what new features would be good. I will submit a trip report on Wednesday!”

“A great new feature wouyld be about a 66% reduction in price.”

“Yeah, that would be great, huh? Although, actually, I feel that 100 bucks for a whole state's topo maps along with the software is not too unreasonable. When they first came out with it, it was, I think, 40 bucks for a region, like the SF Bay Area, Yosemite, Sequoia-Kings - all of which I bought. Then they started doing the whole state for 100, so that seems pretty reasonable to me. When I went on a backpacking trip to Montana a couple years ago, buying the Montana series seemed like a pretty good investment to research routes, then have the maps and profiles to carry with me. But I respect your opinion, and I'm sure others share it.”

“Bowlder, ask them why I can't save when using a MAC”

“I think that about for a state would be reasonable and affordable for most.

I currently have New England and the maps are much better detail sloxe up then DeLorme-s Topo which I also have for the entire country (for $99.95 retail, I got for $90.00) at Staples.

I don't know how mopst people use their topo software. I normally use it for reference, map out my routes, check profiles, zoom in close and get my waypoinys around, through, or over obstacles, etc. Then I put my waypoints in my gps.

When I am going hiking somewhere, I rely primarily on USGS topos in the field as opposed to printouts from the software, except for a close up of some fine detail or tricj spot on a route.

DeLormes is a little mopre suited for the overall looks, especially the side by side split screen views and also the 3D feature. However, NG's maps are identical to the USGS topos and more accurate. DeLorme is usually accurate but I have had at least two instances where places (Raquette Falls in the Dacks for instance) were incorrect in their mileage from the trailhead.

At $50 a pop I might be more inclined to get another state topo from time to time (Like Wyoming for a good look at the Wind River Range) but $100 is too steep for me.

I think at half the price they would sell at least 4 times what they do now and in te long run it would be more profitable for them.”

“One thing I have found annoying is if I'm tracing out a longer path, 15+ miles, the program crashes. I end up doing the paths in 5 to 10 mile increments and joining them together. I have the older regional version so this may have already been addressed.”

“Zach.

Must have been fixed. I have done a lot of trails in it including the full Northville-Lake Placid and the program has never crashed on me.”

“The focus group was great last night. They basically wanted to hear from some of their users what kind of features would be good to add. They are already working on some obvious things that anyone could think of. I think I'm not supposed to tell what their thinking about, so I won't, but basically anything you might think of, they probably already have. They were also interested in how we felt about the cost. I and others said they were concerned that adding features might bump up the cost too much. I stated my idea that additional features that not everyone might want/need could be added separately.

In summary, I was very impressed at how they are interested in making the product better. When Nat'l Geo bought TOPO!, I was worried that it might get buried or abandoned somehow, but it seems as if the opposite is true. A couple of the creators of the software and founders of the original company were sitting in the room, furiously taking notes!

The best part was after the session, when several of us hung out with the TOPO! guys and chatted about some of the current and possible future features. Great guys; very enthusiastic, smart, etc.”

“Did you ask about my problem with saving on a MAC?”

“Hey Dunk, There was just a little bit of discussion about Macs - basically they haven't focused too much on Mac issues in the past (my perception, not what they said), but they are aware of a few problems. I didn't have a chance to specifically ask about that, since about 99% of the discussions were for future things rather than current tech problems. Have you contacted their tech support folks? I haven't dealt with their tech support folks much, but I am convinced that the main guys really want things to work, so I would suggest being persistent in trying to get an answer.

One comment I made was that a far worse thing than NOT having one feature or another was having a feature or features that were wrong or didn't work. They all nodded vigorously on that one!”

“I wish I could convince the marketing people here that that was the case...”

“Was there any indication from the corporate types when we expect the next generation of Nat'l Geo/TOPO software?

I'm thinking of getting the Sequoia-Kings Canyon CD, but I can wait if it'll be improved. Or, are they only going to make "whole State" CDs from now on?”

“Funny you should ask, because none of us in the focus group thought to ask - duh! Just based on the kinds of input they wanted from us, I would guess they expect to add some major features within 6 months to a year. If I talk to those guys again (I might), I will ask them. About the coverage area, do they even sell the "regional" sets any more? Some of the participants pointed out that they didn't like having to shell out 100 bucks if they were going to just one spot in another state. That was one of the issues about which the TOPO folks seemed to be taking furious notes!”

“If you scroll down a little bit, they're offering parts of Calif for $19.95.

But, like I said, if they'll be upgrading, maybe I should wait.”