what's going on in the city?

“Sass, I was just thinking about all you guys up there in the affected areas. I hope everything stays well for you. I'd scrub off work if I were you.”

“treebait, we prolly wont have work. We'll show up and get sent home. Course being an electrician they'll have me draggin generators out to make coffee no doubt.”

“I'm just glad it was nothing serious- I was at work when a customer told me there was something going on in NY and I got all goose-pimply and ran to the nearest TV to see.

Did anyone else notice that the news just focused mainly on ny and none of the other cities?”

“Power back in South-Central Michigan after about 4 hours. Good thing, too, with 200 thousand people camping out in my backyard for the Sunday NASCAR race.

BTW, I've also had my wisdom teeth out today and been hit by the worm virus. Interesting day. Or maybe it's just the Vicodon.”

“Viccodin RULES.”

“I'd rather have viccodin then the scotch I'm drinking.”

“why not both?


heeheehee”

“poor rl.

Hey, how come you get to have power?!



BTW, I've never seen stars like tonight from home before. =)”

“It's Amazing what you can see without all those nasty lights! <G>

Can you see the Milky Way?”

“i saw a shooting star last night.....”

“nope, no milky way..it's hazy and humid tonight and I keep seeing weird flashes....maybe heat lightening?”

“reminds me of the "War of the Worlds" movie from the 50's, with all the radio stations talking about it, everybody wondering what's going on, dark cities. Man I love that campy old movie.”

“"Keep watching the skies!"


heh-heh-heh-heh-heh...”

“Largest-Ever Blackout Hits Eastern U.S.

By CALVIN WOODWARD
The Associated Press
Thursday, August 14, 2003; 9:49 PM

A sudden blackout robbed electricity from millions of people across a vast swath of the northern United States and southern Canada on Thursday, exposing them to stifling heat and jammed rush hour streets - and then darkness.


New Yorkers escaped silenced subways. Nuclear power plants in four states shut down.

The worst outages in U.S. history set off finger pointing on both sides of the border. At one point, Canadian authorities said it appeared lightning had struck a power plant on the U.S. side in the Niagara Falls region, setting off blackouts that spread over 9,300 square miles, but U.S. officials quickly disputed that.

"We all are wondering what caused this," said New York Gov. George Pataki. President Bush ruled out terrorism.

The blackouts started shortly after 4 p.m. EDT, engulfing most of New York state and parts of New England, and spreading west to Ohio and Michigan. In Toronto, Canada's largest city, workers fled their buildings when the power went off. There also were widespread outages in Ottawa, the capital.

Power began to come back as afternoon turned to evening, but officials said full restoration would take much longer.

Outages ranged over an area with roughly 50 million people.

New Yorkers scrambled down endless stairways in skyscrapers where elevators stopped working, and some subway commuters were stuck for several hours underground. In the city that took the brunt of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, people filed into the streets with little fuss and looked for ways to get home.

"I'm trying to keep calm," said Aaron David, 27, who works at the United Nations. "But I was here for 9-11. This doesn't happen every day."

Traffic lights were out throughout downtown Cleveland and other major cities, creating havoc at the beginning of rush hour. Cleveland officials said that without the power needed to pump water to 1.5 million people, water reserves were running low.

New York state lost 80 percent of its power, said Matthew Melewski, speaking for the New York Independent System Operator, which manages the state power grid. Both New York and New Jersey declared states of emergency.

As darkness fell, city dwellers turned to candles and flashlights as scattered parts of the electrical grid came back on. People gobbled ice cream from street vendors before it melted, and gathered around battery-operated radios for updates.

Su Rya, 69, in batik shirt and shorts, guarded a store on 125th Street in Harlem. But when asked about talk that looting might break out, he said, "That's barbershop talk. It's a different generation now."

Marveled another man, "You can actually see the stars in New York City."

There were outages in several Vermont towns and in northern New Jersey, where Gov. James E. McGreevey mobilized 700 National Guardsman and ordered 300 extra state troopers on duty. In Connecticut, Metro-North Railroad service was knocked out. Lights flickered at state government buildings in Hartford.

Broadway shut down. Night baseball, too.

The Mets were trickling out for batting practice in New York when the blackout hit and the game was canceled. Hours later, the visiting San Francisco Giants were still waiting in the parking lot for their bus. Some 500 miles west, the Toledo Mudhens' International League game with the Norfolk Tides was called off, too, to be made up as part of a doubleheader Friday night.

"We have been informed that lightning struck a power plant in the Niagara region on the U.S. side," said Jim Munson, speaking for Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chretien.

But Brian Warner of the New York Power Authority said its Niagara facilities were not hit by lightning and "at no time during this incident ceased to operate.

In San Diego, Bush said "slowly but surely we're coping with this massive, national problem," and added that he would order a review of "why the cascade was so significant."

Bush said he suspected that the nation's electrical grid would need to be modernized.

In Massachusetts, Kim Hicks of Baltic, Conn., was on the Cyclone roller coaster at a Six Flags amusement park in Agawam when the power stopped. "We sat there about 20 minutes and they finally came to walk us off," she said. The park regained power a short time later.

In Albany, N.Y., several people were trapped in elevators in Empire State Plaza, but most had been freed by 5 p.m. People in New York City lined up 10 deep or more at pay phones, with cell phone service disrupted in some areas. Times Square went dark

In Cleveland, Olga Kropko, a University Hospitals labor and delivery nurse, said the hospital was using its back-up generators and had limited power. "Everyone is very hot because the air conditioning is off," she said. "Our laboring moms are suffering."

John Meehan, 56, walked down 37 stories in the BP Tower in downtown Cleveland, wearing his suit and carrying a briefcase. "It makes you wonder, was this terrorism or what?" he asked.

The FBI and Homeland Security Department both said the outages appeared to be a natural occurrence and not the result of terrorism.

Police in Mansfield, Ohio, spread into the streets to keep traffic flowing. "A lot of officers are out there trying to make sure nobody gets hurt, to try to cut down on the accidents," said jail officer Randi Allen.

The blackouts easily surpassed those in the West on Aug. 11, 1996, in terms of people affected. Then, heat, sagging power lines and unusually high demand for electricity caused an outage for 4 million customers in nine states.

An outage in New York City in 1977 left 9 million people without electricity for up to 25 hours. In 1965, about 25 million people across New York state and most of New England lost electricity for a day.

On Thursday, Amtrak suspended passenger rail service between New Haven, Conn., and Newark. Some northbound trains from Washington - a city that did not lose power - turned around at Newark.

New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg asked the city's more than 8 million people to be calm, go home, open windows and drink water.

"Be sure you don't make an inconvenience into a tragedy," he said.

As for the cause, he said: "It was probably a natural occurrence which disrupted the power system up there and it apparently for reasons we don't know cascaded down through New York state over into Connecticut, as far south as New Jersey and as far west as Ohio."

Nine nuclear power reactors - six in New York and one each in New Jersey, Ohio and Michigan - reported they were shut down because of the loss of offsite power, according to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in Bethesda, Md.

Flights at six airports - Kennedy, LaGuardia, Newark, Cleveland, Toronto and Ottawa - were grounded, according to the U.S. Transportation Department.

In Times Square, Giovanna Leonardo, 26, was waiting in a line of 200 people for a bus to Staten Island.

"I'm scared," she said. "It's that unknown `what's going on' feeling. Everyone's panicking. The city's shutting down."

The blackout closed the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel, which 27,000 vehicles use daily, and silenced the gambling machines at Detroit's Greektown Casino. Patrons filed into the afternoon heat carrying cups of tokens.

© 2003 The Associated Press


I just have one question. If nuclear power plants generate power, how can nuclear power plants in 4 states shut down?”

“Yeah, my dad introduced me to that one, it's another good one. It was one of his favorites growing up. There was one I only saw once and barely remember, but the basic plot was that the spaceman came to earth in peace, but the silly earthlings tried to blast him, at which point he melts down all the tanks/artillery. It seems the alien guy looked normal, but I think he had a big giant alien dude guarding the mothership for him. I may be getting that part confused with another one.”

“maybe heat lightening?"
Sassafras

there was an article in backpacker recently about weather phenominoms and they said there is really no such thing as heat lightning.....i had never heard of heat lightning before i read this but that's what it said....”

“



GORT! Klaatu barada nicto!





(more?)”

“Sass, really, they said not until this weekend? My poor kitties are home all alone, sweating it out in my hot house of a condo. I can't get ahold of any of my neighbors to make sure they're OK. I thought maybe the phone lines were down too, but I guess not since you're on-line. Guess I'll just try them again tomorrow.”

“Sass, there is also a boil water advisory due to the low water pressure. FYI.”

“Yeah, that's the one. How could I forget the title?

By the way everyone, check out this quote in regards to the blackouts. Talk about a rocket scientist!

"I have no food in the refrigerator, and most of that is spoiled already"”

“Phaedrus- I 'encourage' the chipmunks to run faster! Good night all.”

“I had to babsit in a windowless westchester hospital holding area with generator power. Didn't even know there was a blackout until late in the afternoon, when the stop lights weren't working.

Might have gone up to visit my wife & adopted daughter in Lake George, but didn't have enough gas in my car & my jeep devours it. Did have gas for my generator but never cranked it up. After getting up at 2 & 3 AM all week, I crashed.

My grandson is finally coming over today to see his new playhouse & truckload of toys a co-worker gave me. He'll vapor lock with me, while his teacher-mother prepares schoolwork for the coming year.”

“Amy, I know about the boil water deal...we'll just purify it, much easier and doesn't heat up the house. Keep trying to get your neighbors, cell service has been intermitant but there's nothing wrong with phone lines.

Birch has left to try to find gasoline. There's a 4-5 hour wait to get off I96 at Brighton, the first city that has power near the metro area. I have a feeling he'll be gone all day, poor guy.”

“I figured Twinks would be out on I-80 with her thumb out and her backpack packed.”

“Nope, she's right here with us, Geo!”

“What? She should be halfway to Seattle by now!”

“Are you guys still going backpacking this weekend?”

“I'm going! Gear is in the car.”

“Heck I am leaving soon! Going to go up and check ou tthe freaks and weirdos in Woodstock.”

“Humbling ,,,,ain't it????
"I've never had my power out long enough for the fridge to spoil. A few hrs. max,,, mostly storm related,, BUT I'll tell ya,, I don't always mind it,,,either. There is just something about IT, like a deer in headlights one's world sorta grinds to a halt when the power goes out. While frightening to some, IT'S enjoyable to others.

Its sickening, in a way, how dependent we have become. Our usage and waste. The daily chit we take for granted. A power outage will always be a moment of reflection for me and great time for the Princeton.-tec Aurora strobin' headlamp."
Briar Rabbit
06:22:37 PM
08/14/03


Well said, Mr. Rabbit. No offense to those here who have been affected by this, but I think something like this is good for Americans. It's a real eye opener. It shows how truely vulnerable we really are at a time when we've come to have some pretty big egos.

This was an accident. What happens when a well crafted terrorist plan takes out multiple grids in a way that doesn't allow them to come back up as quick as they have here.

We have become so dependent on power that our world comes grinding to a halt when something like this happens.

As a backpacker I have everything I need on hand to survive for a long time with no power, water etc. How about the majority of people out there who can't even wipe there own asses without modern technology. What do they do in a situation like this. They sit back and cry until someone comes to their aid.

That's my rant and I'm sticking to it.”

“Kind of helps toughen us up, eh? Yeah, we're getting a little soft in some areas, I think. Not necessarily those of us who backpack...or lyra either. But people who don't get out much, don't rely on themselves and a minimal amount of gear to survive for a few days or a week every so often.”

“I agree with Indiana John.

It is interesting that The Boy Scouts was founded by Baden-Powell in England because of their experience in the Boer war. English youth after the industrial revolution simply could not survive in the field. The BS was to teach them to survive outdoors to shorten the time needed to get an army ready.

Backpacking provides the same preparation to a limited extent. Limited by how long the food lasts. Backpackers can get water, can hit the sack when it gets dark and function on daylight hours only when the batteries run out.

Major population centers cannot funtion without piped electricity and water. This is where our poor resource use really shows up.

Water which is critical for survival is wasted to an unbelievable extent. Most of it is flushed down the toilet. We desperately need a more efficient method of waste disposal.

A more rural setting can function for much longer, but still has problems when distribution breaks down. Food is not produced where the people are.”

“I am grinning by the comments of Manuka and Indiana John. I am assuming that neither of you are without power right now. Its easy to be righteous when your 2 1/2 year old is not crying cause she cant have milk and doesnt understand when you explain a power outage. Or when the police and fire cant rescue crash victims due to grid lock or hospitals running at critical levels without air (not just or cooling but for purification). Or when there is little to no running water in a major city (Detroit). Its easy for me to filter pond water but thats finite and then there is the whole sanitation issue to contend with. Keep being smug fellas and hope that you never get an outage on this scale.

I ended up driving for 3 hours to get fuel for our generator. We ended up in Ohio. t was funny as soon as we crossed state lines it was like normal.

Can we make it without power? We have ample water and food set aside but when we have three more days to go its nice to have the generator.

Indiana John, no one is crying here we are taking it day by day. Your compassion is interesting to say the least.”

“I thought we had a ban on supplying Michiganders with fuel. Good to see you got some Birch, now get out there and filter pond water, and start practicing for next week!
:)”

“We are getting ready to leave for the Cats, guys! Just packing and I have to check on Mom to make sure she's ok. Then we will be off...”

“The biggest problems are when you are in a paved over city like Manhatten that is an island. There are limited avenues for the millions of people to leave by. I was wondering how it must be for some of those people who have been standing (not sitting) crushed like sardines in the heat for 5-6 hours or more waiting to get on a ferry. That is a whole lot different than complaining about a lack of food or cold drinks. Some people walked for hours trying to find a bus or taxi to get them out of the city, or walked over the bridges in the middle of major traffic arteries, to get off the island. This would be after walking down dozens of flights of stairs from their offices because the elevators were not running. Can you see you mother doing this Indian John or Manuka? Sure some people have chosen to live and work in big cities, but governments seem to believe that cities should have the jobs, rather than the suburbs. Contain the sprawl. Except an outage like this shows the dangers in that. It is the same the world over. You boys have a lack of compassion for the ordinary person.”

“It just occurred to me...

Didn't Gort have something to do with a previous power outage?

Hey TB -- did the clouds get outta the way for you last night? I was thinking it would be a golden opportunity for you to do some stargazing without all those nasty lights, <G>”

“I doubt the human side of this is apparant to anyone who still has power. The Washington Times has hundreds of people waking up in Times Square on makeshift beds and hundreds more having to sleep on the sidewalks outside a major hotel because the electronic key cards won't work and the people can't get into their rooms.

You're not going to hear about those who might still be trapped in subways or elevators until they get out and until the power is back on so they can get word out.

Every company and business in the affected area has lost data as most backups take place at night, and many people don't save until the end of the workday.

It takes 24 to 48 hours to put a nuclear reactor back online, and that can only happen after external power is restored.

With the cell phones not working, I don't see how many of the people I saw walking last night could have made it home yet, no telling where they are or how they're getting by. Water and gasoline shorteges due to non-working electric pumps aren't going to help this out either.

The Pennsylvania grid operators say they saw a huge spike in power, too much, not too little, and isolated themselves to prevent overload. From that I'm guessing that a big transmission line went down somewhere, cutting demand off from the supply and leaving overabundant power elsewhere. Early reports say that Detroit and Toledo weren't quick enough to isolate from this surge and otherwise wouldn't have been affected. If that's the case, then they probably have damaged equipment to deal with and it may be some time before they get power back.

I'm surprised that the internet is working as well as it is. The nodes in New York, Boston, Philly and Washington overlap to form a supernode that is essentially the core of the global internet. I noticed slowdowns ysterday evening but am up at normal speed now.

Several big refineries are shut down in Ohio. Of course demand is down too, but since when have the oil majors missed any opportunity to raise prices?

I think this is going to affect a lot more people than just those in the blackout areas, and that we're going to be dealing with after effects for longer than anyone else seems to predict.”

“seriously, i'm glad all you guys are doing okay. even undead ones like stickman, even though he lives in KY.”

“One more tidbit I forgot. Airline fleets are delicate mechanisms, requiring servicing at prespecified locations. You have to juggle tail numbers, cockpit crews, maintenence personnel, cabin crews, catering, mail, baggage, etc. etc. etc. just to keep your fleet functioning and that's on a normal day with no problems.

I do not think you'll see normal air traffic until Monday at the earliest, since just about every carrier had parts of their fleet stranded for hours yesterday.

I'm hoping that the folks in the blackout areas are getting by with no more than inconvienience, but the longer this wears on the less true I expect it to be. Hang tough and if there's anything the rest of us might be able to help out with, just ask.”

“OK I said no offense to those affected by this event and you have my complete sympathy. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes.

All I said is that this is an eye opener and a much needed one at that.

The woes that you all are describing here are exactly what I'm talking about.

Kinda makes you open your eyes doesn't it. What happens if we burn up all our natural resources and there is no more power? What happens if our country is attacked and our power plants are bombed? What happens if terrorists drop multiple grids across the U.S.

That's all I was saying.

Look at this as an eye-opener for the things we daily take for granted.”

“LyndyS, I wish my mother did have to cope with this, she died of cancer four years ago.

For both you and Birch, I lived and worked in a third world country for several years, so yes I can understand how to live without electricity and with running water for 4 hours once every other day. When my son was born I took food to the hospital because they do not feed patients there.
I also have a sister in a rural area where milk for the baby was an 80 mile round trip to the nearest store, not just when there was a power failure but EVERY day. Her husbands job was there, he eventually changed jobs so the kids had access to schools.

You think I lack compassion, most of the World lives like this EVERY day.

I have worked overseas and at least understand how they live.

My whole family does volunteer work most weekends every weekend and after work at night. That is me, my wife, and all our children.
A lot is with Scouts, both BSA and GSA so we do get to backpack and go in the outdoors.

All the Compassion in the World is nothing unless you are prepared to do something yourself to help.”

“I'm impressed Manuka and even envy you in your overseas experience.”

“Thanks Indiana, I still agree with you that this should be an eye opener.

There is a lot of focus on the future of fossil fuels, and almost none on the dropping level of underground water aquifers in the US. There are alternate energy sources but there is no substiture for drinking water.”

“Manuka I am impressed by your resume of charitable works.

Cant speak for others but we did do something for ourselves, we got a generator and fuel. We also feed two neighbors homes...”

“Oh, when they said power outage and lack of electricity in Detroit, I thought they were talking about the Tigers. But I guess you guys have the blackout too.

Rolling blackouts here all day, thank gawd I have dark beer and no blonde beer. Blonde beer would be so confued in my fridge.... it's hot, now it's cold, wait.... now it's hot.... WTF!”

“ID Local Time Event Type Duration Worst Case RMS Voltage Prior RMS Voltage Location
3656 08/14/03 04:10:34 PM Temporary Sag 7.890 seconds 59.1 104.5 MI
4621 08/14/03 04:09:57 PM Temporary Sag 48.600 seconds 52.2 105.3 MI
4549 08/14/03 04:09:57 PM Temporary Sag 48.683 seconds 52.0 105.4 MI
12346 08/14/03 04:09:23 PM Sustained Deep Undervoltage 105.131 seconds 3.2 426.8 MI
6389 08/14/03 04:09:09 PM Sustained Deep Undervoltage 89.515 seconds 71.7 105.4 MI
6568 08/14/03 04:09:08 PM Sustained Deep Undervoltage 89.550 seconds 71.5 105.2 MI
15461 08/14/03 04:09:06 PM Temporary Sag 15.156 seconds 79.7 105.4 OH
16378 08/14/03 04:09:06 PM Temporary Sag 15.170 seconds 79.1 105.2 OH
12345 08/14/03 04:09:06 PM Momentary Sag 67.4 cycles 405.8 423.8 MI
6388 08/14/03 04:09:06 PM Momentary Sag 110.8 cycles 96.8 104.6 MI
4186 08/14/03 04:09:06 PM Momentary Sag 34.9 cycles 104.1 105.2 MI
4543 08/14/03 04:09:06 PM Momentary Sag 69.0 cycles 102.8 105.2 MI
4615 08/14/03 04:09:06 PM Momentary Sag 71.5 cycles 102.8 105.2 MI
6567 08/14/03 04:09:06 PM Momentary Sag 112.1 cycles 96.7 104.6 MI
5199 08/14/03 04:09:06 PM Sustained Deep Undervoltage 105.543 seconds 24.6 105.2 MI
4510 08/14/03 04:09:02 PM Sustained Deep Undervoltage 109.061 seconds 28.7 105.3 MI
4541 08/14/03 04:09:02 PM Sustained Deep Undervoltage 109.179 seconds 28.6 105.4 MI
16375 08/14/03 04:05:58 PM Instantaneous Sag 12.5 cycles 105.1 105.6 OH
15454 08/14/03 04:05:58 PM Instantaneous Sag 7.5 cycles 105.3 105.9 OH
4733 08/14/03 04:05:55 PM Instantaneous Sag 2.5 cycles 104.1 109.3 OH
4432 08/14/03 04:05:55 PM Instantaneous Sag 2.6 cycles 104.0 109.5 OH
3317 08/14/03 02:59:26 PM Instantaneous Sag 0.7 cycles 102.1 120.0 WI


Looks to me like the first connected event was registered in Michigan at 16:09:02.”

“What the #&%!$??!!! What the crap is all that?”

“It's the relevant portion of the US Electrical Grid event log.

Event number, date, time, event type, duration, recorded voltage at the time of the event, normal voltage, and location.”

“How did you get your hands on that? Or is it public information?”