Brigham Young's views

“I find Brigham Young to be one interesting person. First one must realize how important he truly was, seeing he was "Prophet", "Revealator", "Seer" and "President" of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. He held a very important post in the "restored church". Anyone here can think of some important teachings he brought to our attention? What about the one about "mixing the chosen seed with the seed of Cain"? And the Adam-God doctrine?”

“hmmmm, just finished "Under the Banner of Faith," eh?”

“Is that a book about the Church?”

“If that's the new Krakauer book, I keep meaning to pick that up ever since I saw the story on 20/20 or whatever news show they interviewed him on.”

“Bring'm young and leave them barefoot and pregnant? Racist, sexist, and maybe a little off his rocker IMHO. But can't blame the followers, every man gets his own planet to live on when he dies. Unfortunately for the women, if they don't get married so they can live on their husbands planet, they're SOL.”

“I find Marshall Applewhite's views to be inspiring. I think Marvin Gardens is the sole surviving member of his group.”

“Are you referring to Brigham's 27 wives? When I lived in Utah some time back, I actually met one of his great-great granddaughters. She converted to the Baptist faith.”

“while i haven't attended meetin' with the lds group in about 20 years, i was raised in the faith. there are a lot of folks that have much misconception on what the faith truely does believe and teach. to spout off over krakauers book, which is based on a group that has been excommunicated i believe, is not doing much good to you or the lds group.”

“Brigham Young's descendants are about as common as cows around here. I've met 4 myself.

Are you a missionary, OH? Are you going to start proseltyzing to us unconverted now?”

“Are you referring to Brigham's 27 wives? When I lived in Utah some time back, I actually met one of his great-great granddaughters. She converted to the Baptist faith."
Ohio Hiker
06:35:38 PM
08/18/03


LOL, I'm thinking half the state could trace the tree back to Young.

I read a book years ago about the "29th wife." Anyone heard of it, I can't find it online.”

“baume, you're catching me at home immediately after a City Council meeting where half the Council walked out. So I'm a bit on the highstrung side right now.

However, while Krakauer's book indeed focuses on Mormon fundamentalism, he also shows how the teachings of earlier Mormons such as Smith and Young lead them to splinter off.

So yes, he does go into mainstream LDS.

OK, I guess I'm not flying off the handle as I feared. lol”

“Shouldn't you be writing up your story on the council meeting so it hits the morning paper, rather than hang around here?”

“Just for YOU, SR........

The Preston City Council meeting ended on an ugly note Monday evening. Councilman Heath Mensink walked out of the meeting after Mayor David Pechulis “stepped down” from his mayoral position to make a motion to rescind the conditional use permit (CUP) granted earlier this year to Heartland Energy & Recycling.

Councilman Mike McGarvey had offered to second Pechulis’ motion “for discussion purposes” when Mensink left. There were just three Council members present at that time, still a quorom which could conduct business.

Councilman Jerry Scheevel had walked out of the meeting arpimd 15 minutes earlier, as audience members questioned whether Heartland – a $50 million plant proposed by Robert Maust of Preston that will burn tires to create around 20 megawatts of electricity a year – had successfully obtained all the permits required before a building permit could be issued by the City Council.

The fifth Council member, Mike Gartner, was not in attendance at the meeting.”

“"arpimd" = about. LOL! All of a sudden my typing started overtyping the sentenceces. lol”

“Ever been downwind of a burning tire?

Oops. sorry.



From Brigham Young to burning tires in exactly Three posts. A New Record, I'm sure.”

“LOL.... OK so IGNORE me, then, Tilt.

;-)”

“No, that's what I come here for, LOL”

“Let's hope his views are of a burning lake of fire and a certain somebody with a pitchfork!”

“Saddam's buddy from South Park? <G>

Yow.”

“I view his church as I do most fringe christian groups with the exception that I do respect there overall family values and their zeal for adhering to their chosen lifestyle. Theologically they are very mixed up but just as I always say about the Catholics…”I’ve never met a Catholic (Mormon) that wasn’t very kind to me.”. Hobbit has always been one of the nicest and kindest TTers that there ever was and I consider him to be a good representative of his religion and what their core values are. A couple young Mormon fellas used to come around every so often and share their theological views with me and we had some very interesting and engaging front porch conversations. They even offered to help me build a fence with me in my back yard. I never turn away the door knockers.

On a funny note:

Q: Why did G-d allow the Mormon religion to be born?















A: So Christians would know what it’s like for the Jews. LOL!”

“Yes, they have good Christian values MOST of the time. Reptiles also has a point above. Myself? I've been killed with kindness from Mormons. And yes, Hobbit is a good guy... very family oriented.

But I don't know that you can say "fringe group." I would have to look it up in the book, but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is growing phenomenally. There seems to be concern that if they keep growing at that rate -- and certainly their missionaries are helping -- that they will become a true "majority" religion. I think people fear that perhaps then Smith's and Young's views of running a country as a church state will come back into vogue.

P.S. I was very surprised to learn in that book that Joseph Smith had all kinds of plural wives at the time he was in Nauvoo, years before he even told his general congregation of that "revelation" from God. It sounded more like the charismatic Joseph Smith had trouble keeping his pants zipped, therefore VOILA(!) a revelation direct from God says plural marriages are OK.

Did you also know Smith's background was somewhat based in black magic type endeavors? Ummm, OK, let's just say "magic."”

“could you please explain "mixed up theologically" nigal.”

““But I don't know that you can say "fringe group." I would have to look it up in the book, but the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is growing phenomenally.”

My use of the phrase “fringe group” was more aimed at their less than orthodox theology (multiple gods, Jesus‘ divine status, divine revelations).

It seams that any time a religious group grows exponentially there is a fear that comes with it that they may take over some how. This is being played out as we speak in Israel. The Pali leadership has told their people that their greatest weapon against the Jewish state is found in the wombs of their women. The overall plan is to try and out populate the Jews and use assimilation to over power them. Considering this “oppressed” group has gone from some 500,000 when the Jews won their state back to some 3.5 million in less than 50 years it may work. They have people actually flocking to Palestine from other Arab countries in order to build up their numbers there.

Have you read Krackhaur's new book yet? Any good?”

“"could you please explain "mixed up theologically" nigal."

As I stated to lizs it is more of how their religion differs from mainstream Judeo-Christian theology. Everything that follows was taken from a Mormon site, not an anti-Mormon site...

We will all become gods:

“Jesus was the god of the Old Testament. We Mormons believe, a spirit must live as a male humanoid on an earth-like planet, before becoming a god. This helps of prove our worth to Heavenly father, the omniscient of the planet KOLOB, who, by default, always doubts the worthiness of all souls that he created.”

You shall have no other gods before Me:

"Jesus-Jehovah reveled himself to our Mexican - American Brethren ("'Not white, yea, not delightsome"). He came onto them in the form of Quetzal-coa-tl, the snake which sprouts feathers."

-- Joseph Smith; History of the Church, Vol. 665, p. 776.
To this day, Mormons and Central American Indians recognize the god Quetzalcoatl as the Feathered Serpent.”

A polytheistic view as opposed to the christian claims of monotheism:

“Mormonism is a polytheistic religion. For Mormons, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are: The Heavenly Father, Jehovah-Jesus, and Holy Ghost. Mormons also have minor deities whom they revere. We believe that angels visit the earth from KOLOB, the Planet Of Origin (POO) -- of angels and spirits and gods.”

A departure from the Jewish theology that G-d does not have any physical form:

“The Heavenly Father (I will use "God" for short) is a physical being, just like you or I, except that he has no blood. Instead, we Mormon thinkers believe that a powder flows through His veins, propelled by air, in an otherwise normal heart. Other slight adjustment to God’s biochemistry and metabolism are of course concurrent with this.”

The status of Satan in relation to Jesus and G-d:

“His son, Jesus, (the creator of our solar system, but not of all the universe) is also a physical being, with normal cell function, real blood and so on. The Virgin Mary is a concubine of The Heavenly Father, who had other wives as well, but he never married Mary. Jesus’ half-brother, Beelzebub, the Devil, is also a spiritual being, ( spiritual blood, spiritual lymph etc.,) but He, of course, does not live in heaven. It is God and Jesus and their wives and the angels, all physical beings, who live in heaven.””

“This talk of women like they have no mind of their own or feelings makes me sick. It is only through the bastardization of religion that someone could come up with "(The Pali leadership has told their people that) their greatest weapon against the Jewish state is found in the wombs of their women."”

“Corinthians 1
14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.”

“I don't know anything about lds, but I couldn't find anything on other planets at their official website.”

“When I was looking for this:

Religious cult: the church down the street from yours.
- B.C. comic strip


I found these:

Scriptures: the sacred books of our holy religion, as distinguished from the false and profane writings on which all other faiths are based.
- Ambrose Bierce



I was at Bible camp, learning how to be more judgmental.
- Mrs. Flanders, Homer Simpson's neighbor on The Simpsons


I was walking across a bridge one day, and I saw a man standing on the edge, about to jump off. So I ran over and said 'Stop! don't do it!' 'Why shouldn't I?' he said. I said, 'Well, there's so much to live for!' He said, 'Like what?' I said, 'Well...are you religious or atheist?' He said, 'Religious.' I said, 'Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?' He said, 'Christian.' I said, 'Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?' He said, 'Protestant.' I said, 'Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?' He said, 'Baptist!' I said, 'Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist church of god or Baptist church of the lord?' He said, 'Baptist church of god!' I said, 'Me too! Are you original Baptist church of god, or are you reformed Baptist church of god?' He said, 'Reformed Baptist church of god!' I said, 'Me too! Are you reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1879, or reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1915?' He said, 'Reformed Baptist church of god, reformation of 1915!' I said, 'Die, heretic scum,' and pushed him off.
- Emo Phillips”

“The Simpsons quote above is great, and unfortunately true for lots of folks.”

“What a bunch of baloney. I mean what some a claming here about Mormons. Not that the quotes are wrong but that you need to see them in total context. I have lots of LDS friends and if you want to know about what they believe ask them, not someone with an axe to grind. Their explanation of God makes more since and jives with the bible better than the so called main stream Christians. The very act of attacking a church is an unchristian act. So what do you think you will be doing in the next life, sitting around playing harps for eternity? Their idea of eternal progression sounds better, anything less is the definition of damnation. They at least they give the appearance of being directed by deity (it maybe true) and not by organizational politics.”

“I still can't figure out how they (the Mormons) went through Park City and then decided Salt Lake City is "the place."”

“I've always liked poligamy.”

“Emo is a nut and a half, <G>

Great stuff!



Maude Flanders, RIP”

“I can't see all the ado about Brigham Young or the LDS Church. Personally I don't agree with most of the LDS doctrine but the LDS people are some of the nicest people I ever met. I lived with a 53 yr. old Stake Missionary and I got to tell you she treated me like I were her own son! I even dated some nice LDS ladies and all I can say they were some of the best women I ever met! They were "clen" living and didn't sleep around with every Tom, Dick and Harry. I respect people like that.

Nigal, are you really Jewish or a Goy? Are you who I think you to be, Mr. Noahidehiker?”

“nigal, i don't know where you cut and paste that stuff from but that is nothing of what i ever heard while being raised in the religion. they are a christian religion in the true context of the meaning. they believe in a father, son and holy ghost.

in my opinion, it is stuff like what you posted that "frightens" people (as you and lizs put) about the religion.

people should know of what they speak before the decide to show how much they don't know about a subject.”

“Thanks for the info baume and Ohio. I wasn't trying to be a smart alec. I actually looked into some websites to see what the beliefs were and was trying to say that I didn't see the "far out there" type of stuff.”

“I never imagined people claiming Judaism would be the ones posting negative things about another person's faith. How ironic!”

“Funny, but I think I bookmarked religious tolerance as a human right after Nigal posted a link to it and professed some desire to work toward promoting similar views.”

“Gee, I'm missing something here but it seems that Nigal was most respectful towards Mormons. It didn't seem he was judgemental, cited quotes by Mormon theologians and stated where he found those quotes.

Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.”

“Well... Googling seems to indicate that his quotes came from this site.

Is that one site representative of mainstream LDS beliefs?”

“Clicking 'home' on that site leads me to believe that it is not a reliable ‘Mormon’ source.”

“You are very correct Violin. A true Mormon site is Mormon.org, the offical website of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints.”

“I read the Book of Mormon myself and it appears to be based on the Bible (KJV). Actually I couldn't find any faults with the book. As far as I'm concerned, it's religious literature and Holy Writ to our LDS friends. Perhaps it can be true or at least parts of it. Perhaps proof will be discovered that will substaniate the validity of the Book of Mormon. We will have to wait and see. So in the meanwhile, I will just keep my mind open and not make judgment calls. That's God's job, not mine.

Any LDS members out here?”

“I read the Book of Mormon myself and it appears to be based on the Bible (KJV). Actually I couldn't find any faults with the book. As far as I'm concerned, it's religious literature and Holy Writ to our LDS friends. Perhaps it can be true or at least parts of it. Perhaps proof will be discovered that will substaniate the validity of the Book of Mormon. We will have to wait and see. So in the meanwhile, I will just keep my mind open and not make judgment calls. That's God's job, not mine.

Any LDS members out here?”

“'Perhaps proof will be discovered that will substaniate the validity of the Book of Mormon.'

If anything, as we learn more about New World (and Old World) archeology, the Book of Mormon becomes more and more out of date.

I'm not sure what God's job is, since he/she/it has never told me what it is, but we ALL have to judge for ourselves what to believe. There's too much contradiction among the various religions and beliefs to accept them ALL as "true."”

“Don't be too sure of that, Forrest. One can never tell what just may be "discovered" when it comes to the B”

“Don't be too sure of that, Forrest. One can never tell what just may be "discovered" when it comes to the B”

“Don't be too sure of that, Forrest. One can never tell what just may be "discovered" when it comes to the Book of Mormon. Never say never. Try to keep an open mind, ok?”

“I think Ohio is a happy clicker.”