Biodegradeable Soap

“Here's a question maybe ya'll can help me with. I've been washing in creeks and lakes with biodegradable soap everytime I backpack. Is this OK, or will it harm the water sources.

BTW - This is a serious question, it's been buggin' me for years and I've never asked anyone.”

“BB,
I read some were (I don’t remember the source) that even biodegradable soaps can contaminate a water source. I’m not 100% sure on this fact, but I started washing away from water sources anyway. Better safe than sorry.”

“Thanks zac - I heard the same thing, that's why I'm asking. Hopefully we'll both get a bonafide answer.”

“BB, yes it will hurt the water.
Do you want to drink someone's washwater downstream?

I try to carry my washwater away from the stream and wash there and dump the water where it will soak into the ground instead of running into the stream.

A big plastic ziplock or even a Wal-Mart shopping bag will work.”

“Let me see...do I get three guesses why this topic came up...”

“I have done that as well Stove. If you are not into this idea, try some of the moist toweletts that Lever 2000 makes. You get 15 to a pack, cost about $1.50. These work pretty good, nothing like a good shower though. I have also seen "no rinse" shampoo and soap, but have never tried it.”

“I often pee, #&%!$ and throw animal carcasses into a water source because all are biodegradable. Is this acceptable or not?”

“Violin, what you do at home in your kitchen is no one's business but yours.”

“Hey vio, I often pee on my hands before opening doors.”

“I was told some years ago by a chemist who left Church & Dwight (Arm & Hammer) to start his own soap company (he makes, among other products, a biodegradable outdoorsman soap), that until the soap biodegrades, it is a health hazard.”

“200 ft. minimum from water sources, guys.”

“From the LNTnazis (scroll down to "Dispose of Waste Properly").”

“thanks everybody & for the link violin”

“The more I think about it, I am such a dolt. What the heck was I thinkin'?”

“I've learned a lesson here.”

“That I'm a dolt, or that you shouldn't use biodegradable soap in water, or that farting in water doesn't nessisarily make a jaccuzzi?”

“I would agree that using biodegradable soap ( and who's saying it is or isn't biodegradable?) in a stream or pond causes contamination. To me contamination would be the introduction of a substance that wasn't there in the first place.

However, depending on how much is used and by how many people, the body of water will recover. Bacteria break down the naturally occuring wastes of animals that inhabit the water. It's basic nutrient recycling.

Moist towelletes are fine but consider the environmental damage done to produce those things, i.e. the plastic container, and the disposal of them in a landfill when you're done.

I'd say a minimal amt of a reputable biodegradable soap in moving body of water would be ok.”

“So, having said all of this.. what about taking a dip in a mountain stream, river, or lake.. even without soap? Should it be avoided altogether, or only if one is doused in bugspray and/or sun block?”

“Following JO's post. The question then becomes when is it an overload situation? If you are one of a thousand people on the trail, using the water source as your personal bathtub, then even biodegradable soaps are going to create bio-hazards for the local bacterias and floras.
Good rule of thumb is to wash up on shore at least 200 ft from any water source. Then, you don't have to worry about it, nor does anyone else.”

“This question from the guy who got tossed out of the northeast for his habitual violation of the clean air act.”

“Stop stepping on my posts haikuguy.”

“Hey man, I'm trying to come clean. (get it?)”

“A little bit of sunblock puts quite an oil slick on the pool, this I know.”

“Go cry to your mommy, yo-yo boy!”

“What about all of the deet that goes into the water when cooling off?”

“I want to get one of those collapsible buckets. Twigeater, you have one, don't you? How much does that sucker weigh?”

“I think it was in Backpacker Mag. (which I no longer get) an article emphasized that biodegradeable doesn't mean it's aqua-degradeable. It adds to the pollution in the water, but is okay to use it away from the lake/river/ocean.”

“The closest I could find at the Rodale site was this review of Vermont Soapworks Camping Soap.”

“Are you serious Buddha? and you teach backpacking classes?

We've had this discussion before here.

Just a quick search brought up this site:

"Protect water quality by washing away from camps and water sources

Properly dispose of waste water; avoid the use of non-biodegradeable soap. Do not soap your dishes or yourself in streams or lakes, even with biodegradeable soap (it's fine to swim, but never use soap near lakes or streams). Carry water for washing at least 100 feet away from the stream or lake. Remove food scraps before washing. Dump waste water into a cat hole in well-drained soil or fling it in a wide arc so the small drops can evaporate quickly."

My bucket.”

“Try washing up in your wine bota.

How does that taste?”

“Does dropping sweat-saturated TP out of your shorts on the trail count as polluting?”

“omigawd, I wish so bad I had seen that...”

“I can't believe no one mentioned Artex's tp episode on their trip reports.

Twigeater's bucket worked great on the Maine trip. We used it for laundry and washing. I'm gonna order one tonight. Other water bags, like the one Twigeater gave me, collapse when you put them on the ground. The LLB one holds it's shape.

Btw Twiggy - I don't know if I already told you this, but I did not use soap in the stream last week. Your lecturing made me feel too guilty. ;o)”

“Good one!


A related question:
"I often pee, #&%!$ and throw animal carcasses into a water source because all are biodegradable. Is this acceptable or not?"
vIoLiN
09:41:07 AM
08/21/03
ignore this user

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"Violin, what you do at home in your kitchen is no one's business but yours."
Fritz
09:44:05 AM
08/21/03”

“You mean you actually listened to me and I made you feel guilty? Good! ;)
I'm so glad you told me Pennsy, cause I thought you did the soap in the stream thing anyway. Soap is always soap in water, it needs the bacteria in soil to break it down.
That's my biggest pet peeve - second and third involves toothpaste.

The bag that I gave you is meant to hold water even when it's flat on the ground.”

“tell us about the toothpaste, twiggy!”

“Thanks, Shawn, I was starting to think maybe that was a swing and a miss... :)”

“Then tell us about burning trash too!”

“LOL! no, i'm serious about the toothpaste. i just spit it out on the ground. i am going to hell? does it help that i use Tom's of Maine?”

“Well it doesn't involve monkeys... :)

Toothpaste spit over the side of the porch of the bunkhouse in winter and all over the bushes any other time of year.”

“Hey I'm serious too! (i really really really HATE it when people burn plastic. i probably scowl at them unconciously) So, preach on sister! =)”

“I burn my trash. I've gone back and forth on that one over the years, and now I burn anything that'll burn and pick anything that survived out of the fire ring. It's probably very wrong isn't it???”

“oh, i get ya! i've heard the don't-burn-trash thing, but i was thinking it was Bad to spit toothpaste on the ground, too...”

“It can attract things, so it's best to spit it into a cathole. Helps the bacteria get to it too.

Or you could do like I do, and don't worry about brushing your teeth on the trail.”

“Am I preaching? Didn't mean to, but if Buddha is teaching, he should already know stuff like this. It's a good discussion though.

I try to spit toothpaste in the fire ring or down the outhouse. Otherwise I go aways from camp and scrape up the ground, then cover it up. Same with wastewater.”

“I didn't write that post about biodegradable soap, that was a quote from the site I linked to.

So bit, do ya think that might have something to do with why your wife doesn't back pack with you? (if she doesn't that is, lol)”

“Thanks for the link, twiggie. That's a very handy thing to have.. and lightweight enough also.”

“So why does Adverturist have toilet paper falling out of his asscrack?”

“Awwww jeez, thanks a lot Adventurist. I thought we weren't going to post about this.

It was actually me, bacpac. I always lay down a toilet seat cover when I use the outhouse. A piece of paper I layed down for a seat cover got in my shorts when I was done doing the deed. I assure you it wasn't used toilet paper. Anyway, it was falling out of my shorts in bits afterwards while we were hiking. After realizing what had happened (which is prettty darn funny), I tried to pick up what I could, but probably didn't get all of it.”

“I did not read all of this thread so excuse me if I am repeating something someone said already.

In Grand Canyon,which is the only place on the planet I know anything about, one can use soap in the big river but not in side streams. Soap in side streams is supposed to mess with the fishie and frog eggs and such. It is OK to take a swim without soap however. One is encouraged to pee in the wet sand by the river rather than near the camps.

I sure hope this was a serious question because this is a serious answer ;)”