Why I Love My SUV

“You are right that they were fairly light, but I don't think a Prius is much heavier - they cut the weight as much as possible for economy, just like the Metro. But the Prius is probably safer with a more modern "crash cage" design and dual airbags. My Metro only had a single airbag. The other design deficiencies of the Metro aside, I'm lamenting that the 13+ year-old technology of my old $10,000 Metro got the same MPG as the "latest" $25,000 hybrid technology. The 15-year-old technology in my 13-year-old Caprice completely beats out the "modern" 5-year-old technology in my 3-year-old Toyota Sienna, in ride comfort, performance and MPG.

Something just ain't right.”

“Something just ain't right.”
techntrek
3:00:55 PM
11/17/06

I agree with that. Wasn't there a Civic in the early '80 that got over 40mpg?”

“Those cars were lighter, more dangerous, and no frills - even by today's no-frills standards.”

“I agree with that. Wasn't there a Civic in the early '80 that got over 40mpg?
lumberzac

yep - I drove an 84 Civic station wagon for a dang long time and it was always over 40 mpg some trips almost 50 mpg

real shame when I junked the thing after 300K or so”

“The people said they wanted safer gas.
Safer = heaver
heaver = les gas mileage”

“Don't get me started on car wrecks. MY Lord the number of cars I have cut apart, the number of rescues versus recoveries....UUUGH”

““The people said they wanted safer gas.
Safer = heaver
heaver = les gas mileage”
humanpackmule
3:15:30 PM
11/17/06
There's some truth to that, but I don't completely buy it, considering most mid sized cars have better crash test ratings than larger SUV's.”

“That's because they are built completely differently.

Most cars are unibody construction and most large SUVs are still old school body and frame construction. It really is an apples to oranges comparison to compare one type of build vs another.A barge and a jetski are both watercraft but they just aren't in the same class.

Granted as long as you walk away from a wreck unharmed you don't really give a damn how it was built you are just glad to walk away.”

“Any one know if there is any truth to the Saturn dumping the compsite body parts rumor I keep hearing?

I really don't think we are that far off, if we really wanted to be, from a mid-size car that can rate at 45-50 mpg average. The technology seems to be there.”

“If they built one I would buy it! Probably even if it was foreign...”

“I agree Q.”

“I love my 1996 Ford Explorer with manual transmission. It outshines many a vehicle on those bad forest service roads, and can withstand getting hit better than a lot of cars.”

“moonglo & HPM, what you say is true when you compare my old Metro with the new Prius. The Prius is somewhat heavier, and safer, and the Metro definitely was no-frills with no performance.

Doesn't compute when you compare my Caprice with my Sienna, though. My Caprice is way heavier, AND safer, AND still gets much better gas mileage (and ride quality, performance...V8, towing capability...5000 vs. 3500 lbs) with almost as much interior capacity. A 4000-pound design from 1990 with body-on-frame beats out a unibody 3000-pound design from 2000. Doesn't make sense.”

“factor price”

“Performance, a $10,000.oo a mile tax on Nascar racing and performance might be a thing only in the history books.”

“Caprice was between $20-25K when new. If it were still on the market it would be going for around $25-28K today - that's what the MSRP is for a Crown Vic according to Ford's web site, and that was the Caprice's direct competitor 10 years ago.

Sienna MSRP is between $23-36K according to Toyota's web site.

So we are talking equivalent price range.”

“Is'nt the Caprice the car GM counted by the acre for a couple of years, until they got taxied up?”

“Well Tech, I'm not an engineer. I'm a guy who builds cars for fun. There are many factors that affect performance but the biggest factor is weight and cars are getting stuffed fatter with "safety" and toys.

Other major factors are the engine and powertrain. Where is the power band of the mill? An over-size (by modern standards) mill is torquey and doesn't have to work very hard to fly. Small engines have to wind higher to get into the powerband. Emissions controls are almost always choke points for an engine. If you change the gearing of a car you can modify how it performs.

My guess is the sienna has a smallish (for it's weight) choked back emission clogged engine that's geared badly to try and make up for it.

My '48 ford F1 with a '49 flathead V8 hooked to a chevy T5 five speed pushed through 4:11 rear gears with 27" tall tires will smoke in all gears and get over 25MPG.

If I get in a wreck......well, it's been nice chatting at you.”

“LOL, well they didn't have the crash cage back in those days! The passengers themselves were very much part of the kinetic energy absortion process... after they impaled their faces on the front windshield. Sounds like you have a nice setup.

What you say about emissions and underpowered engine with bad gearing is probably right on the money. So maybe the root cause isn't about Americans wanting bigger and more powerful, but about the need for lower emissions? Ironically with the lowered MPG's in the process it may look like we traded lower emissions for high fuel consumption?”

“Ironically with the lowered MPG's in the process it may look like we traded lower emissions for high fuel consumption?”
techntrek
3:20:06 PM
11/20/06

If that is true, I wonder if the extra fuel consumed offsets the lower emissions?”

“Everything is a trade off to one degree or another.”