What does Nigal do?

“I hiked to the top of Pinnacle Mountain this morning. Pinnacle Mountain is a reasonably steep climb of about 800 feet with lots of boulder steps near the top.

On the way down I pinged my ankle. I define a ping as a sharp pain, but no loss of footing. I am at home now and I don't have any discoloration, but my ankle is still sore. (If I move it just right I can make it hurt) It will be fine in the morning.

I was wearing a sturdy set of hiking boots. I am not a ballerina, but I have decent balance. I was wondering what would have happened if I was wearing a pair of jogging shoes? Everything would be fine, because this trail is not very long, but if I had to walk on this ankle for six or seven more miles, I would want more than a jogging shoe.

I would like to hear from the ultra-light advocates?”

“I was wearing a new set of boots that didn't give as much ankle support during my last trip to the 'Dacks. My right ankle is weak from an injury years ago, and it took a beating. I'm getting my old boots, which are higher, resoled soon and will continue to wear those.

Everyone's different I guess, but ankle support is nothing that I want to mess around with.”

“I hiked in New Balance tennis shoes this weekend and was fine.”

“Hard to say. I do roll my ankle from time to time but I have never had a bad sprain. I equate hiking boots with those back belts they wear at Home Depot. If you wear the belt long enough your muscles will not be as strong because you are getting the support from a belt and not your muscles. I view the wearing of high hiking shoes in the same way. Granted I’m no medical expert and this is just my opinion.

I wear sandals most of the year and low shoes on the trail. I’m not saying in the same situation I wouldn’t have even turned it but I do believe because I wear these shoes I do I have much stronger ankles than if I wore higher hiking shoes. Comparing the years I wore high hiking boots to my years in trail runners I see no increase of twisting or frequency of twisting. In fact I would say that the freedom of movement the trail runners give my ankles decreases the likelihood of my having a bad sprain.

I have also read that a stiffer high boot can actually transfer the trauma up to your knees rather than keeping it in the ankle area. But again, everyone’s ankles are different. If boots work for you wear them.

Hope it is mnior and your leg feels better in the morning bacpac.”

“I like Montrail Storms for lightweight backpacking.

Look around for shoes like that.


The one thing about useing lightweight trail runners is that when you do go back to backpacking boots your feet are going to have to get used to them again.

8)”

“Weak ankles here. I do ankle stretching exercises and wear boots with ankle support. Also, the less body weight + pack weight the better for general foot, ankle, knee health.”

“I would say that in the few years I have been doing ankle stretches, it has saved me two or three sprained ankles. The range of motion was the ticket.

Regarding Nigal's theory about building up your ankles. I am not sure what muscles support your ankles and how strong you can make them.

Note: Ski boots totally protect your ankles and transfer everthing to the knees. Correct?”

“I do all my workouts in low top shoes. Jogging, walking, stair stepping. I don't think my hiking boots are causing my ankles to wimp out.

I have had torn ligaments in both ankles from tennis and basketball injuries. As I get older my ankles and everything else seems to be getting weaker instead of stronger :-(”

“Sounds like you're best off sticking with the tried and true Vasques.

BTW- I'm still chuckling over the image of you in a tennis skirt playing tennis. LOL!”

“Very good question! I wear Saloman Swamps now and switch to my Merrell boots for the winter, only for the insulation that they offer. I notice that when I hike in my Merrells, they seem to give me a higher center of gravity and I twist my ankles more in them than my Saloman's. They weigh about a pound or so more. It seems ot me that the more weigh over time might cause tired feet quicker and poorer footing. I know that in my Saloman's, I'm more nibble on the trail, so I perfer them. I guess it helps that I've have spranged my ankles many, many times in my years. They're perty loose.”

“Most ultra-light advocates employ the mantra "Since your pack is lighter, you don't need the ankle support."

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat this if you sprain your ankle out on the trail. It will not magically transport you home like Dorothy clicking her heels together after saying "There's no place like home."


I wear hiking boots.”

“Weak ankles was one reason I started cutting my pack weight. I still use a mid weight boot though. I'm not skimping on ankle support.

Hope the foot gets better soon bacpac.”

“I use trail runners sometimes. One argument that the lightweighters have is that you can step with more care when your shoes are lighter. I definitely think more about foot placement with trail runners.

I'm still working out when to use boots and when to use trail runners.

Also, I have an ace bandage in my first aid kit.

Heal quickly bacpac.”

“My ankle is already 90 percent good. RICE works.

On the trail I have to recommend boots. If wearing boots is too much of a load maybe hiking is not your sport.

Actually walking is not really a sport until you are my age :-(”

“I have very little left on my left foot (since the shark attack ya know) I tend to roll my angle a lot. It goes over so far some times the ankle bone hits the ground. It happened so much to me that it's like double jointed or something. I just scream shake it off and keep going. I get the best support from a heavy weight boot but opt for the midweight sun downers for more all round comfort.”

“"On the trail I have to recommend boots. If wearing boots is too much of a load maybe hiking is not your sport.........."

That's it!! BOOTS TOO HEAVY.............LEAVING TT!!”

“Nigal-I was laughing about the same thing”

“With a load or on a rough trail I like my full top boots, but I can't call them heavy. Dayhikes on easy trails low top Merrills.”

“"My ankle is already 90 percent good. RICE works.

On the trail I have to recommend boots. If wearing boots is too much of a load maybe hiking is not your sport.

Actually walking is not really a sport until you are my age :-("
bacpac
05:01:55 PM
09/01/03

It could be that if you need those heavy boots to protect your weak ankles you'd better consider something less physical than hiking . . like horseshoes maybe?

jk :) . . . couldn't resist!

Seriously, I agree with Nigal on this one. I've been wearing light weight trail shoes for two years now and will not switch back. I'm even going to use them on the Long Trail in a couple weeks too.

What would I do if I sprained my ankle in them? I did sprain my ankle about 22 miles into my "death march" last spring. I hiked the remainder of the 46 mi. that same day . . . all with a full pack (about 28 lbs. total weight). I just wish that I had some tape with me. Backpacking boots would not have helped.

I sprained my ankle when I rolled it on a piece of a limb hidden under the leaves on the trail, while going uphill. I did the very same thing in backpacking boots three years ago and had a slight tear in my MCL in the knee. I'll take the sprain any day over that.”

“"It could be that if you need those heavy boots to protect your weak ankles you'd better consider something less physical than hiking . . like horseshoes maybe?"

Sumbits! Why didn't I think about that? I hear Walmart bags make good ice packs....”

“As I get older my ankles and everything else seems to be getting weaker instead of stronger :-("
bacpac
02:38:22 PM
09/01/03

It's a b!tch, ain't it? :D

I have sprained and/or torn ligaments in both ankles over a dozen times each over the years from sports injuries and they have a tendancy to turn on rough terrain. I jog regularly and do calf raises as part of my weightlifting workout, which should serve to strengthen the ankles. Nevertheless, I will always wear hiking boots that give my ankles good support.”

“My ankles are like SirPete's. When I was younger, I hiked with Keds and never twisted my ankle. Now they twist easily, with a sharp pain that eases quickly with no residual pain. I wear mid-high boots to help protect against the frequent twists. Hiking strengthens my ankles even with the boots. I feel the diff when I bike ride and climb ladders now versus before I took up backpacking.”

“I am struggling with the same debate. I really like wearing NB trail runners, but wimped out at the last minute on a recent smokies hike to take my Asolo's the boots feel solid and make my footfall seem more secure. But like Ray Jardine and Chris Towhnsend have said in their books - there is some advatage to the shoes:

-Lighter which means less stress on your legs and throretically better step selection.
-Dry faster, and don't hold as much moisture.
-Lesstangibly, you feel the trail beneath your feet, you are more a part of the trail.
-Less impact on the trail becuase the soles are softer.
-They also say that the heel support advantage of boots is a myth and that the real key is a strong ankle cup to minimize shifting of you ankle. They say that the top of a boot is not strong enough to keep someone from rolling their ankles. I;m not convinced of this, but they say it.

Has anyone sprained their ankles in boots?

In basketball - we wore hightops to avoid sprains. What I would really like is a pair of high top trail runners.”

“"RICE works"

I assume we're not talking about the kind you eat. What is RICE?”

“Rest and Ice?”

“Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation.
I'm a nurse who worked in the Emergency Room for several years. Yes RICE works.”

“Bacpac, Sorry to hear about your ankle.

I just returned from a 9 day 82.5mile trip about 6hrs ago. I wore a pair of Montrail Hurricane GTX trailrunners. I LOVED them. The terrain was extremely rocky with treeroots covering portions of the trail like webs. The majority of 2 days (24miles) was pretty much up and down a ridgeline made of solid rock with a thin covering of lichen and moss. One of the two day we had a helluva rain so e had slippage issues to contend with too. The low spots were dirt and mud. In all the miles I didnt turn my twist sprain or injure my ankles once. There were 7 of us and 5 wore shoes,the others wore boots. No one hurt there ankles at all. Many blisters were earned (the worse were on a boot wearer) and I once saw Sass practically lay her ankle sideways with no pain or trouble.

I geuss the point of my ramble is that its not the footwear per se. Its the ankles. I would NOT recommned running shoes to anyone unless they were very fit and had no past of ankle troubles. It'd be foolish. That being said however,unless i am hikin in mtns I am gonna continue in shoes as I have for 2 years with no trouble.

BTW I now officially hate goretex.”

“This weekend I had to decide between my new Asolo boots and my new Montrail trail runners. Since I hadn't had the boots out with a pack, I went that route. I had one minor twinge, nothing major. When it happened I did think, hmmm, I think the higher boot caught that... how would that have been in the trail runners?

My ankles have been twisted a lot over the years. A couple big time twists in volleyball. As far as hiking out with a sprained ankle with whatever you're wearing, I have been there and one that. Drove home from volleyball using my foot with the sprained ankle on the foot clutch for my manual vehicle. And after RICE that evening, I wore pumps with something of a heel to work the next day (why, I can't recall now). So it can be done.”

“Ah. Thanks for the info.”

“odd. i had more serious nkle sprains back in the days when i wore boots. been hiking in sandals for 8 months now, (carrying a lighter pack, too) and have rolled my ankle a couple times but never anything serious. but i always carry an ACE bandage and duct tape. in the case of a really bad sprain, one i couldn't walk off, i'd just bandage/tape it up real tight and do what i could to get out. i have no faith that boots would offer my ankles any real protection, unless they were very stiff (and thus very uncomfortable).”

“i got a knee problem on my recent hike. never ever had knee trouble before. it still bothers me when i completely extend the joint. i reinjured it the other day punting a football to my boys.

i think it may be like nigal said, at least for me in this case. my boots offer such good support that my knees are now taking the trauma. i have 2 pins in one anlks and rolled the other over COMPLETLY about 5 months ago, so my ankles are kinda weak. not that any of you care....lol.



bacpac, good thread ....for once. i am curious, where is pinnacle mt? i have heard the name but can't think of where it is...”

“Looks like it's in Searcy, a state park. (some of us know how to use the "search" function on our computers..... )



LOL!”

“I'm not so sure about the less weight = less need of boots thing. Chris Townsand hikes in sandles weather he has 20 lbs or 60 lbs. As he says, it's about a firm foot bed.”

“"Looks like it's in Searcy, a state park. (some of us know how to use the "search" function on our computers..... )
LOL!"
lizs



(some of us have actual kids to put to bed and dishes to do and worked FOURTEEN FRIGGIN HOURS ON LABOR DAY! ! ! ! )”

“too right Nigal - my Chacos (and my Tevas) feel more stable than my boots, because the footbed is contoured to hold my foot in place with minimal slippage. some Superfeet would probably increase stability in my boots, but i have no desire to go back to boots anyway.”

“I bet Twnsend has pretty strong ankles. In the section in his book about footwear I believe he also mentions that the flexibility of a running shoe vs the stiffness of a boot allows the hiker to have a better feel for the ground and to more easily make the slight, unconscious adjustments to keep the foot upright. He says - like tarbubble - that as long as the foot is well cradled in the shoe then it can react, bring the shoe with it, and avoid a bad sprain.

He (Townsend - and I think Nigal as well?) also uses hiking poles. Poles can have a lot to do with avoiding sprains, particularly on a fast paced downhill walk where the footfall is much harder and the chances of sliding on a muddy rock are greater. With the poles you have that counter balance to minimize the weight of your downhill footsteps.”

“"Sounds like you're best off sticking with the tried and true Vasques."

Grow a pair.

"BTW- I'm still chuckling over the image of you in a tennis skirt playing tennis. LOL!"
Nigal

Post photos!”

“I have to disagree with the theory that a sneaker somehow provides better feel and agility. It is not like I am walking in moon boots.

Solid hiking boots are designed for travel in uneven terrain. Stepping on the thin edge of a tilted rock with hiking boots is a much more solid perch than the same step with thin flexible soles of sneakers.

I read a report that ankle injuries on the trail are up. The writer concluded that the popularity of low top light weight sneakers were a contributing factor. I don't have a link to the source, but perhaps someone else does.

The notion that sandals are more stable than boots defies the laws of physics. I have several pairs of sandals and this is not my experience. An ill fitting pair of boots is more likely the problem.

I don't want to overstate the probability for ankle injuries. I know it is just walking, but the notion that sneakers or sandals are better than a boot for hiking just does not make sense.”

“Forget Nigal. How did This guy

ever survive?”

“For me boots are more about protection from stubbed toes and bruised soles than ankle support.”

“I concur with the Irascible One...”

“That dude has a nice mullet.
Is that the "Ape Drape"?

I like to wear mid-weight all-leather boots any time of year.”

“I do agree with you about the sandals bacpac. I have hiked in Tevas and found the experience less than lovely. They rubbed a hole in my little piggy and I felt very flat footed at the end of the day. I do think that picking the right runners is important too. As you said, stepping on the edge of a rock in any old tennis can be a problem. I started out with regular Nike running shoes and now that I have a pair of trail runners with a sole that is more aggressive, a bit thicker, and a little stiffer than the average running shoe I find shoe selection is more important than just throwing on any old pair of shoes.

I hope you don’t think that I am using my preferences to somehow say that boot wearers are pu$$ies or somehow not as tough.”

“""Sounds like you're best off sticking with the tried and true Vasques."

Grow a pair."

Sorry but my balls have trouble growing in the shade of my huge shlong.”

“I ususally have a fried pie when I hurt my ankle(s)”

“"""Sounds like you're best off sticking with the tried and true Vasques."

Grow a pair."

A pair of boots, ya ding-a-ling!”

“Oh, OK. Can leave the comment about my huge shlong standing? A guy's gotta have dreams ya know.”

“No comment on your trust fund.






(endowment)”

“"The notion that sandals are more stable than boots defies the laws of physics. I have several pairs of sandals and this is not my experience. An ill fitting pair of boots is more likely the problem."

if you are speaking in generic terms, of course you are correct. i'm not hiking in $10 "sport sandals" from Payless. i now hike in Chaco Z1's or Teva Wraptor II's. i used to hike in a horrible pair of stiff full-leather boots with a stiff shank that did nothing but rip holes in my feet. then i switched to a wonderful pair of Merrell Eagles (they don't make 'em any more). the Eagles were comfy and i never got so much as one blister in them, but they never offered me any real ankle protection (sprained my ankle in them several times). i suspect that their minimally contoured footbed (which i mentioned could probably be improved with Superfeet) contributed to my foot sliding slightly when my ankle began to roll, thus not really protecting me from sprains.

since i have switched to sandals, i have rolled my ankle seriously only once, but was able to walk that off with no problems. using my poles (which i also used in my boot days), i can usually sense a slip as it's happening and shift myself out of it fast enough to avoid injury (which i did just this Sunday, coming down the 6000' descent from Mount Whitney).

i cast no aspersions on those who wear boots. just don't assume that we who don't wear them are accidents waiting to happen. all backpackers are accidents waiting to happen. ;) when CindyLu broke her ankle in the Grand Canyon this year, she was wearing boots. they ain't foolproof, because no shoe is.”

“I've always hiked in boots, and yes, I've turned my ankles, never anything too serious. If I had been wearing anything else, then certainly, the injury would have been worse. just yesterday, I was running to dive into the river in my Chaco's, and as I lept into the dive, my right foot twisted and hurts even now, I'm glad I wasn't hiking, and as I floated, I was able to keep the foot in the cold river. IMO...boots can be more protective, but what do I know, I'm a perverted thrill seeker with a death wish...I'll stick to my boots.”