The Official California Recall Thread

“I haven't been keeping up with this from the start and don't really understand what is happening. I know California's finances are in the toilet. What I don't understand is on what grounds are Californians deciding mid-term that they can re-elect a govenor? Has foul play in the power scandal been proven? If so, why is there no impeachment. I'm not trying to be a smartie, I just really haven't followed what's going on and am curious.”

“At least a majority of the voters believe he is, so he has been recalled. Not too different conceptually from firing a Chief Executive Officer who runs his company into the ground, the Board of Directors fires him.”

“All due respect, Wanderer, but the majority of voters have not voted on the issue of recall yet.”

“The Arnold interview was removed from thesmokinggun.com. I wish I'd printed it out.”

“Welcome Home Fiddleman. Made it back into the fold, I see!”

“dayhiker: The state constitution allows for a mid-term recall election if enough petition signatures can be gathered. Gray Davis had enough disenchanted citizens from both parties so that the signatures were gathered fairly easily. Even so, the recall election is being challenged in the courts on various grounds with a decision pending before the Oct. 7 special election.

I think an impeachment would have to be supported by the legislature. That would not easily happen since both houses are heavily democratic.

IMHO, Gray Davis's handling of the state energy crisis and the related swing from a sizable budget surplus to a huge budget deficit almost overnight put the nails in the coffin.

The October 7 ballot will include two votes:

1. Should the governor be recalled? (A simple majority is required to approve the recall).

2. Vote for the new governor (135 names are on the ballot and apparently the one with the most votes wins...whether it is a majority or not).

Commentary: It appears to me that the Democratic Party has cautiously backed away from Gray Davis and is trying to unite behind Cruz Bustamonte to get all the Democratic faithful's votes. Cruz is our Lieutenant Governor (elected) who is not close to the Governor (apparently they have not spoken in over 8 months).

The Republican wing of the Democratic party (TIC) is spliting votes behind Schwarzenegger (moderate or left on social issues), Tom McClintock (conservative), and Peter Ueberoth (moderate?).

Arianna Huffington is an independent and I haven't noticed anyone taking her seriously since she abandoned conservativism several years ago.

The polls mean nothing in California right now because it is impossible to know who the likely voters are. Even the local media is admitting that. One news crew went into a local city (Norwalk, my home town, heavily hispanic) that had voted 2/3 for Davis in the last election. They asked people how they were going to vote. The only people they interviewed who were against the recall were union officials. Granted, it was not a random sample. They found a some democratic business owners who were going to vote for Arnold because their cost of doing business had gone up so much the last 5 years. One person from the Chamber of Commerce said that most Chamber members appeared to be leaning toward Arnold. Again, this is biased information, but does not bode well for Davis.

Predicition: California elections seem to turn into smear campaigns the last two weeks. I have no reason to believe it will be otherwise with the recall election. Watch for the name-calling, labelling, and muckraking to accelerate soon.

Two things will determine this election: (1) The number of democrats who go the polls, and (2) the number of republicans who decide to vote for Arnold even if he isn't their first choice candidate (it doesn't appear the Republicans are going to unite behind one candidate like the Democrats have).

Speculation: If Arnold wins, it will change the dynamics of the 2004 presidential race because it will put California back on table for the Republicans. Arnold and GW will become bosom buddies and may even have a BBQ or workout together.”

“Since the campaign is going to devolve into mudslinging anyway, and since not all candidates can or want to participate in the debates, and since the prospect of hanging chads looms over the election, and since the precedent was set the other day, why not use the egg ballot?

You line up all the 135 candidates, standing about 10 feet apart. The voters each get one egg. They walk down a promenade and toss the egg at the candidate of their choice. Candidate with the most hits wins.

Now this sounds like an idea made for California if I ever heard one!”

“How about naked mud wrestling.”

“The question remains who will the California Raisons throw their support to.”

“So, the one with the most egg on his/her face wins?”

“Geobeet - I fail to see much difference between your suggestion and what we are doing.”

“Thanks for the summary Phil. I seem to recall hearing about petitions now. I understand now, at least as much is possible to understand on this one.”

“Have any of the politicians in California offered to take responsibility for the financial crisis?

Or is it a huge blame game?”

“Norwalk, my home town, heavily hispanic

;-)”

“As an outsider without a dog in this fight I’d have to question your assertion that the signatures on the recall petition were “gathered fairly easily”, Phil. Didn’t Issa spend something $2 million of his own money to gather those signatures before dropping out? That doesn’t sound like a grassroots movement to me.”

“A dollar a signature. To be fair, though, some petitions were circulated and signed for free.”

“One huge blame game is an understatement...Davis should get dinged on economy, but he certainly didn't throw us into the recession toilet that has created the current crisis (tax-cut Bush and Cheney are to blame for that).

Arnold has yet to say something intellegent on any issue...he big stump point is that he would bolster education (ignoring that Davis has sizably increased education spending during his governorship), as far as I have seen, he has said nothing of substance since.

The rest of the "legitimate" candidates are perhaps more knowledgable, but can't possibly be elected...McClintock is too right wing, Ubberoth has no political background and Bustamonte does not come across as intellegent, and is in trouble for accepting Indian gambling kickbacks--err, campaign contributions.

For what it's worth, I think Davis isn't very good, but I am against the recall because I think it will set a ridiculous precedent if it is successful.”

“As an outside observer bongofreek, I have to agree. Supposing the recall is successful and (for sake of argument) Gary Coleman is elected, then I would expect another immediate recall movement to start.

Has anyone tested the constitutionality of the recall petition provision? I'm having a hard time believing it would pass muster.”

“I'm not familiar with the federal laws in regard to state constitutional election provisions.

Chili?”

“California is whack.

All the voter mandated initiatives have driven the budget beyond State revenues. Now they want to blame the Govenor.”

“The recall petitioners got twice as many signatures as was required to make sure they had enough valid ones. That is a normal practice for petition campaigns here. I know people who went out of their way to find a petition to sign. Based on that, I would say it was "relatively" easy.

Regarding saying anything of substance: What candidates have done that in print or on TV? (I have heard several on talk radio interviews, but nowhere else). A friend of mine ran for a rather minor political office here in Orange County and won. He said he was coached that to be an effective campaigner you just need some one-sentence responses to questions that make you sound like you are confident and knowledgable. Don't go into any depth.

History may show that the recall was unhealthy in the long run. We'll see. I voted against term limits because I felt that way and believe I was right. (It could even be argued that term limits is partly responsible for the mess we are in now. I am not trying to debate term limits on this thread...I am just trying to make a point about long-term consequences).”

“I suspect you're right bacpac.”

“bacpac - I partially agree. Our bond initiatives require about 6-7% of our tax revenues to service the debt (acccording to one source). We end up paying a lot of interest over the years for projects and services that should be line items in the budget. If we keep voting for bonds it will keep going up and accumulating. When you have a deficit it really hurts in trying to balance the budget. We need to go on a diet and quit voting for so many bond issues.”

“Voters almost always approve bond issues. I can't recall one ever failing here in Philly.”

“Regarding challenging the recall election, the only challenge I am aware of is based on the limited number of planned polling sites descriminating against some voters. There could be other challenges going on.”

“Phil--Agreed on saying anything of substance is not necessary for election...it's just a shame that we let candidates get away with it. I personally find it sad that Arnold may be elected and the voters never hear from his mouth what he stands for...all he does is take sound bite worth pot shots at Davis, most of which are unfounded criticisms...of course I found it sad that Bush did the same thing and was still able to steal the 2000 election.

bacpac--I agree with you as well. Californians want a lot of government based special programs and they don't want to pay for anything.

Geobeet--I guess the only good thing about the recall is that it shows the people of CA actually can have a voice in how the state is run...of course, we are all wack jobs out here...”

“The entertainment capitol of the world! Thanks folks.”

“In Pennsylvania, we have referenda places on the ballot as questions. Since voters always pull the yes lever, the question is always worded carefully so a yes question coincides with the desire of the party in power. Of course, it always involves borrowing money too.

So the issue of voters approving referenda that involve borrowing more money is not exactly unique to California. The degree may be unique, but not the practice.

But allowing a recall election that can thwart the will of the voters strikes me as asinine. Impeachment is provided for "high crimes and misdemeanors." Other than that, I see no reason to recall an official duly elected to serve.

There was a movement, when the late Frank Rizzo was mayor of Philadelphia, to recall him. It failed miserably. Rizzo, in fact, had more than sufficient support to beat it down easily.

Now that I think of it, maybe there's an element of California alive and well in Philly!”

“I just got word that I'll be part of history. My sis works the election department for my county and needs additional folks to help out. Looks like I'll be in charge of collecting all ballots from the various precincts in my town. I get issued a van and park it in the DMV parking lot and wait til all precincts deliver the ballots and then I take them back to the warehouse for counting. I even get a badge to wear. How cool is that! Woo Hoo! Keep an eye out for me on TV!”

“Watch out for shady donkeys in trenchcoats offering you fat envelopes.”

“I'll give you $1 for every Arnold vote that you change to a Gary Coleman vote.”

“My son just called from our voting place to warn us that there are three lines and NOT to get in the one backed up out the door...it's a decoy.

He said:

Line #1: Go inside and get in the line that matches your last name. They cross off your name and give you a number.

Line#2: This line takes your number and gives you a ballot.

Line#3: Stand in this line to vote and then turn in your ballot.

Well, I better get dressed and get out of here.

Have a nice day!”

“You get a recall vote, we have a garbage hauler strike.

Wanna trade?”

“I voted this morning. Only missed one election in 24 years. We have touch screen voting now (since about a year ago) - pretty cool.”

“Stumpy - we would send you some gargage haulers but we need all of them here to get rid of the stink of this election.”

“Stumprider - Sorry, we can only send one skinny guy with a pencil neck. He used to be Governor and is quite familiar with slinging trash.”

“I just got back from voting, I have only missed one or two votes in over 30 years.

I wish they had made a provision in this recall that if you didn't vote in the original election, you couldn't vote in this one. Getting a second chance because you were too lazy or uncommitted in the last election shouldn't be an option.”

“I just hope this is the first of many happy recalls.”

“Run, Gary, run!
All early exit polls are showing Gary Coleman with a commanding lead. California is going to make history with the shortest governor in US history.”

“What you talkin about, willis?

I bet he and Jesse will get along just fine.”

“i really don't want to vote today. i sat on the fence for a while, but i've finally decided that i hate the recall and have no idea who i'm going to vote for as the backup guy. well, i actually have a pretty good idea who, but i don't agree with all of his positions and he hasn't got a snowball's chance of winning, but he seems like the best of a lousy field. good heavens, i hate voting for clowns.”

“Even clowns with BIG muscles?”

“ain't votin' fer that clown! although i have a sinking feeling he's going to win.”

“Where can I contribute to the NEXT recall fund?”

“I think bush should leave the whitehouse and run for gov in cal, since he so good at rasing money he would be good for the country in cal. come on bush do your duty.”

“Glad I don't live in Ca. right now. We just had to worry about one 1 of 2 people for mayor and 1 of 2 people for a city council seat. I'm definitely voting out the incumbent mayor though. Our population has gone up by less than 2000 people over 8 years yet our water bill has gone up 39%. Now he wants to jack the price up even more by taking over water/ sewer for the naval base a few miles up the road. Sorry Johnny boy, yer outta here.”

“This morning on NPR I heard the some of the politicians in California were talking about changing recall rules and laws. I'm not sure, but it sounded like some of the people on the program wanted to recall Arnold if he got elected.
Can you imagine? Not even elected yet and people are already wanting to recall him. I guess that the majority vote in California don't mean a thing unless everyone likes the outcome!”

“I don't guess Mary Carey is leading the popular vote, is she?”

“

"Conan, what is best in life?"

"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of the women!"”