Rumsfeld Tours Iraq, Celebrates Successe s

“Secretary Says Country 'So Much Better Off Today'

POSTED: 3:39 p.m. EDT September 6, 2003
UPDATED: 5:08 p.m. EDT September 6, 2003

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Donald Rumsfeld says there's a lot that needs improvement in Iraq. But the defense secretary says the Iraqi people "are so much better off today than they were four or five months ago."

At a Baghdad news conference, Rumsfeld said security needs to improve, and resources such as water need to be managed better.

But he says 42 of the 55 most-wanted Iraqis have been captured, and more Iraqis are offering helpful information.

Rumsfeld also noted that a team headed by CIA adviser David Kay has been working "diligently and professionally" to find evidence of weapons of mass destruction.

Rumsfeld called on Iraqis to step up and help coalition troops maintain law and order. He says sending in more U.S. troops would only increase the number of targets for those attacking coalition forces.

Wrapping up an inspection tour of Iraq, Rumsfeld traveled to the ancient city of Babylon Saturday and visited a nearby mass grave.




I really wonder if he might have read some of Sgt. Rock's letters. The headline on this website earlier in the day said that according to a recent Washington Post Poll, 7 out of 10 Americians believe Saddam was personally invovled inthe 9/11 attacks.

Me thinks the propaganda might be working.....:(”

“the Iraqi people "are so much better off today than they were four or five months ago."

Yeah, thousands of them are dead and martyrs in heaven thanks to Donald.”

“But he was afraid to face the troops:


U.S. Troops Want Rumsfeld to Send Them Home

Fri September 5, 2003 11:02 AM ET
By Saul Hudson

TIKRIT, Iraq (Reuters) - If they had the chance, U.S. soldiers at a base in Iraq would have had one question for Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld: When are we going home?

But Rumsfeld canceled a speech he was due to give on Friday to the troops at their base at the palace of deposed Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein in his hometown of Tikrit.

"I don't give a damn about Rumsfeld. All I give a damn about is going home," Specialist Rue Gretton said, humping packs of water bottles on his shoulders from a truck.

"The only thing his visit meant for us was we had to clean up a lot of mess to make the place look pretty. And he didn't even look at it anyway," Gretton said after soldiers swept the dusty streets around the complex of lakes and mansions.

They also erected a stage and set out chairs for a speech that Rumsfeld canceled due to a tight schedule. Instead, the Pentagon chief briefly thanked soldiers after a meeting with military leaders.

"It was good for morale," said Major Josslyn Alberle, a spokeswoman for the Fourth Infantry Division headquartered at the palace.

Sergeant Green, 40, did not think so.

"If I got to talk to Rumsfeld I'd tell him to give us a return date. We've been here six months and the rumor is we'll be here until at least March. This is totally, totally uncalled for," she said.

Green, who asked not to be identified by her first name, complained she would miss seeing her 16-year-old through her whole school year.

HARD, REAL HARD

Rumsfeld has been criticized for sending too few troops to Iraq leaving them stretched thin on extended deployments trying to help rebuild the country and fight a guerrilla war. He has urged allies to supply some 15,000 additional troops and hopes training Iraqi forces will ease the burden on U.S. troops.

When the Armed Forces Network showed earlier footage of Rumsfeld saying that fresh U.S. troops were unnecessary in Iraq, soldiers at the base threw their hands in the air and shouted "No way" at the television.

"I ain't happy. No way am I happy seeing that," said Specialist Devon Pierce, whose wife was due to give birth to his first son in two weeks. "This tour is hard, real hard. It's too much. It should be six months."

Other soldiers said they could not complain openly about their long deployment for fear of being disciplined. Earlier this year, military leaders warned their troops they should not show disrespect for Rumsfeld after a rash of criticism from soldiers in Iraq appeared in the media.

Guerrillas regularly attack the palace complex with mortars and rockets. But soldiers acknowledged that with air-conditioned rooms and burgers and hot dogs in the mess hall they had it easier than many of the more than 150,000 U.S. troops in Iraq.

Many also said that while they wanted to be with their families at backyard barbecues or on trips to the baseball park, they knew what they signed up for by joining the army and were committed to stabilizing Iraq.”

“Didn't Rumsfeld, along with most of GW's cabinet, AVOID military duty?”

“Just a suit who knows war better
than generals.(in his mind) I believe he is the guy who gave Saddam the chemical wpns to fight
Iran.”

“He seems to be one of the few who did. I don't think he saw combat, though... He was a Naval aviator 1954-57 (HE should've landed on the aircraft carrier, I guess). He hit the gap between Korea and Vietnam.

The bio says he was an Admininistrative Assistant for 'a Congressman' when he first came to DC in 1957, but it doesn't say who. (?)

He's been the CEO of two different drug companies: Searle and Gilead.

There's also a gap in the record from 1985-90. it simply says he was 'in private business'.”

“"There's also a gap in the record from 1985-90. it simply says he was 'in private business'."

Probably "feeding off" defense department contracts during that period.”

“"Beware of the military-industrial complex".
-Dwight D. Eisenhower, Kansan and someone who did not go AWOL”

“we should just quit and go home....fawk iraq, to hell with all those peasants, let um rot.

we should have let japan and germany rot too after WWII......

let's just wait till they topple the space needle or the capitol building and then prosecute them in a court of law....



bin laden was right...you are all decadent and weak”

“The 'warlords' run Afghanistan, but Karzai remains the Mayor of Kabul. I keep hearing reports that the Taliban are filtering back in, slowly but surely.”

“Forrest - I remember a one Solitary Hiker say on this board that we were going in the Afgani so that a pipeline could be run from the oil rich area. I wonder what ever happened to that guy. Looks like he was wrong.....

I really hate to see Strat get beat up all the time. He means well, even if he is misguided. But, it is always to play defense on issues rather than speak from a point of fact, so what ever floats his boat....

Bush and the Cronnies are doing there best to line the pockets of friends, Gas (natural and petro) shy high, my electic bill will be going up soon due to an out dated power grid (what the phuck have I been paying for in the first place?), along with my insurance rates, property taxes, health insurance......It's enough to make a guy wanna move. What ever. If some ae looking at the same piece of shayat I am and think it's a Bush full of Roses, so be it.

So when are people going to become part of the solution, instead of part of the problem? I guess I just don't care anynore. Ya can't fight City Hall....”

“"How could a readiness for war in time of peace be safely
prohibited, unless we could prohibit, in like manner, the
preparations and establishments of every hostile nation?" --James
Madison”

“You are very correct. I wish everyone could bend over and take it like a man, like you strat guy. You make the world go round. Keep up the good work.”

“I don't think Rumsfeld is celebrating too much today.Poor guy, I almost feel sorry for him NOT”

“looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking!

”

“Yeah, I hear they're passing the buck to Rummy.”

“LMMFAO !! ! !

He does get some queer looks on his face.”

“D%$# libs”

“Yeah, SCREW YOU LIBS!!

War crime is an OXYMORON!

They GET WHAT THEY DESERVE!!”

“That's what happens when you give young punks freedoms that they don't earn or defend”

“Yeah, freedom to abuse prisoners is what we get when we have to come in to your country and clean house. Deal with it, you Iraqi hooded wimps!”

“"That's what happens when you give young punks freedoms that they don't earn or defend......"


Now THAT'S the voice of reason.


And the right thinks the left is misguided?”

“Heck it wasn't like we were killing em! It's just a little fun American style!

They should be given medals!”

“That's what happens when you give young punks freedoms that they don't earn or defend"
os1johnson
03:50:10 PM
05/06/04

I'm 2 years older than you, and do enjoy my freedom to call a spade a spade. Thanks for defending that right, although, if you look a little closer, you'll see the people that currently run this country are trying to take those freedoms away from us.”

“If thats the case Phraedus then George Bush Sr. should be tried for collaborating with Saddam Hussien when he was the director of the CIA. Who in the Hell do you think enabled him?

How about the Nazis that the US brought back here to work on missle programs after World War II.

Do you really think the US didn't know about the atrocities committed by the general they were going to have take over at Fallujah? Bush will sell out all of iraq if he thinks it will get him re-elected.

Be careful about saying people should get what they deserve, if thats the case this whole administration may end up in Jail.

The other thing that really pisses me off is all you people tlking about killing the enemy. ENLIST Dammit. Get your A$$ over there and on the line.

Most of you would be Messing your damn pants, yet you are all for killing.

I've been there and done that, and based on my experience the last thing I want is to have to see war again, for anyone.

Anyone here for war, go Enlist. Fight with something other then your mouth! Put your A$$ on the line, then you have mthe right to speak about war.”

“Been there done that.

Prisoner abuse is fun! bring the kids!”

“Unfortunately the cases of abuse are inevitable. I would wager that every war that any and all nations have been involved in has had abuse of prioners and worse. Its war not a picnic. I am not by any means excusing or condoning the behaviour of those involved, it just seems odd that people are so shocked. This is wars dirty little secret. it'll happen again if not in this war then our next...bank on it.

It almost seems as though some folks here are happy to have stuff like this occur,more fodder for their agenda. More getting to holler about how right they are.”

““It almost seems as though some folks here are happy to have stuff like this occur,more fodder for their agenda. More getting to holler about how right they are."

What amazes me is that some who are screaming for Rummy to step down are the same ones who want to turn right around and take someone who has ADMITTED to breaking the Geneva Code and committing atrocities in war that make what happened in Iraq a picnic and make him president. Unbelievable!”

“Yeah. Freaking liberal scumbags.”

“Hold on, who admitted to committing war crimes?

Note: it ain't Kerry, so quit getting all your news from newsmax.com”

“This thing about prisoner abuse is being blown out of proportion.

If I were a prisoner, I would rather be stacked in what is being called a "gay pyramid" than getting shot in the arm or having my bones broken, which was done to our prisoners.”

“This thing about prisoner abuse is being blown out of proportion.

If I were a prisoner, I would rather be stacked in what is being called a "gay pyramid" than getting shot in the arm or having my bones broken, which was done to our prisoners.”

“"who want to turn right around and take someone who has ADMITTED to breaking the Geneva Code and committing atrocities in war that make what happened in Iraq a picnic and make him president......"



Nigal - for crying out loud, man. Will you please quit throwing this out? This is a pure example of misinformation of something that has already been proven to be false.

If I am wrong, please show me new evidence then, not throw up the same chit that was debunked a million times.
geez!”

“"This thing about prisoner abuse is being blown out of proportion.

If I were a prisoner, I would rather be stacked in what is being called a "gay pyramid" than getting shot in the arm or having my bones broken, which was done to our prisoners......"

Although I agree that I would too, rules are rules and they are there for a reason.

Two wrongs don't make a right.

I just hope no more of our troops get captured, or it could get ugly.”

“I don't think there's a way to overstate the impact these pictures will have on the attitude of average middle eastern people toward Americans.”

“The biggest implication of the photos will be more dead Americans. I hope the folks who took their "trophy shots" never forget that.”

“As I've understood it, the pictures were taken by a fellow soldier. That's what put the soldiers in the photos at ease to pose.
Trying to justify these actions by comparing them to something more brutal is an incredible argument, and not worthy of what the US should stand for. Seems like we should be striving to be the example of freedom and bravery to the rest of the world, not perversion and sadism. Remember? "They hate us for our freedom". Now, it looks like we gave them another reason to hate us.
And, Nigal, that misquoting of Kerry has to stop. You should read the transcript of his testimony, then you will understand why you must quit.”

“Dunadan I am all for us trying to set a higher standard of conduct then others. I think the people who did these things should rot in prison for years to come. I hope the investigation goes up as high as it needs to. My point was that its awfully naive to think that anyone is above this since they are "Americans". Nation of birth doesnt insure a higher standard. I was drawing parallels to other times. I was not trying to justify these actions, thats a pretty strong insinuation to make.

Yesterday on Talk of The Nation on NPR there was a Prof from Stanford (I think) who did a psychological study on prison and the way it affects inmates and guards. He took hundreds of volunteer students from all over the US who were given a psychological test, he picked the 70 most well adjusted and normal and made some guards and some inmates in a mock prison within hidden cameras. Within days the majority of the guards were caught ith inmates virtually naked making them perform pseudo-homosexual sex acts (hidden camera) the tudy was shut down after 4 inmates suffered sever psychological breakdown and one attempted suicide. Keep in mind this is a controlled environment with volunteers. He found that in the right (or wrong as it were) circumstances the vast majority o people are capable of such horrific acts. It always starts of minor and escalates....Food for thought.”

“So then if this is so common, where do we start the seperation between us and them?

We blast them (using a Bushism), for the same thing we just got busted fer.

So, will Saddam be able to "hide" behind the cloak of "well, I didn't want that to happen, maybe some bad seeds did it. I think it is un-Iraqi.

You can't have it both ways. Lack of consistantcy is what has gotten us to this point and I'm real glad we're making that big difference in the world.


yeah, right.


Thanks be to Bush, who has spawned another 100 terrorists, just today.

He must be looking fer job security.”

“You couldn't be more right, Birch. These young soldiers were under a traumatic psychological circumstance and, from what I understand, were not properly trained for duty as prison guards. There's no reason for anyone who hasn't been in a similar situation to hold themselves up as righteous. We don't know what we would do in this kind of situation. My guess is that these particular soldiers had some maturity issues at best and some latent perversities that came out under pressure at worst. I'm not even going to assume that they were following any kind of orders from above to participate in these activities until it is proven. I don't want to think that that could be the case. I hope, like the president and the secretary of defense has said, that it is an isolated incident, and will be dealt with.
I have listened to a few too many people calling into talk radio, and justified these actions for any number of reasons, even calling for worse and more sadistic treatment. Just like your citing of psychologist studying prisoners and guards though, we don't want to become what we are fighting against. Terrorizing people in jails does not make anyone any better than a terrorist, does it?
The answer is that guards should be under constant supervision, rotated out of guard duty often, (read: need more troups), and given adequate training, including psychological training.
We'll let the CIA do the interrogation. Regular Army shouldn't be used to "soften up" prisoners.
A little more human dignity will go a long way toward diplomacy, don't you think?”

“I think the problem (and I haven't kept up on this in a few hours or so, so please correct me if I'm wrong) is that there was a lack of "chain of command" in the jail.

The head of it claimed that M.I. was in charge of certain things and "regular Army" was in control of others. If this proves to be true, have they not learned anything at the White House about micro-managing wars?”

“Another alarming situation is that there are "private contractors" involved. Why do we have "private contractors" in a military prison? Times sure have changed.”

“Well I'm sure that the whole Haliburton/Chaney thing HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT!!!



yeah, right.

Anyone who voted for this group of morons has been hood-winked. It will go down in history as one of the greatest shams of all time!”

“This must make self-respecting conservatives cringe.”

“Q, I hope I am misreading your tone, you seem to be attacking me.

Q, I said earlier that I believe we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard. I never said anyone should be able to "hide" behind any excuse or reason. I have said that heads need to roll. I was commenting not on the horror of the abuse. We are already killing people and pretty much ever culture and religion agrees at its core that murder is wrong. So in my opinion we are already committing the pretty universally excepted worst thing you can do,I am not shocked at the disvocery of this abuse. I am NOT justifying their actions, for goodness sake I am a veteran and all of my closest friends are.

"Terrorizing people in jails does not make anyone any better than a terrorist, does it?" I agree with you these people are no better then some of Saddams henchmen,I never even implied otherwise.


" Just like your citing of psychologist studying prisoners and guards though, we don't want to become what we are fighting against" Of course not! No one here has suggested that, I thought it was an interesting parallel story, as did NPR, sorry you took it as an argument for justification.

"A little more human dignity will go a long way toward diplomacy, don't you think?" Agreed thats self evident. This whole war has been a mess IMHO and all we can do now is try to make the best of a really bad bad situation. We broke it now we get to fix it. Then we can step back and seriously reevaluate our priorites internationally. We got lots of mending to do.


...and this is why I have avoided political threads lately. I am not trying to justify anything or change anyones mind. I was adding something to the discussion that I thought was relevant. This is just oughtta hand though.”