California Recall delayed

“SAN FRANCISCO, California (CNN) -- A federal appeals court has blocked the October 7 California recall, but stayed its order for seven days to allow an appeal.

The ruling from the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals follows a hearing last week in which the American Civil Liberties Union sought a postponment of the vote.

The ACLU argued that election officials should have more time to replace antiquated voting machines in several California counties.

If Monday's ruling stands, the recall vote would be moved to March 2004.”

“This is looking like a regular group-grope.”

“Yes, prolong the drama. It's like getting a 20-episode season of The Sopranos!”

“The Supreme Court will overturn the 9th Circuit court of Appeals. They always do.”

“this is the first time i have actually hung my head in reaction to the recall. what a nice extension to what's already a &%$#@ waste of time and money.”

“What do people think of the recall? I think it is stupid, stupid, STUPID!

You voted for the man. Has he done something against the law? Why oust him from office just because he hasn't gotten your California policy/budget in target quite yet? Mind you, I'm far from any expert on California issues, but this recall wreaks of this: A bunch of soccer parents who haven't quite gotten their way with the coach. So lets just get a new one.

You wanted the guy to coach. Leave him in there till the next season!

Also, do you realize whatever percentage vote it takes to do the recall, that whomever is elected is going to have much less of a percentage of the vote than in a REAL election?

Man, what stupidity!!!”

“Watch out California - you've gotten lizs pissed off at ya!”

“I am amazed at how the left is crying that they are having their votes overturned and the right is trying to steal an election. The recall has been on the books for years and years. It is a part of California law and it is just as democratic as the election itself. It was attempted three times on Regan during his time in office. Did ya hear the whole country wailing and crying then? My G-d, look at the numbers! Barely 30% support this bozo.

If Grey Davis was on the board of directors of say Enron and he caused the same financial fiasco you’d all be calling for him to have his nuts ripped off and fed to him.”

“hmmm, maybe this is a boon in disguise. maybe people will be so disgusted with California that they'll STOP MOVING HERE!!!

oh, how selfish and unfriendly of me. bad tarbubble!”

“Stats show you lost 1,000,000 residents in just the last year Tarbubble. You figure they were paying what in taxes per year? Yikes!

I think the 9th Cuircut should be recalled.”

“I think a bloody coup is in order!”

“I just think the recall is dumb. I don't care who's in office. If there could be a recall for mayor in the town I'm in, I can assure you there would be one now. But ya know what? These people voted for the guy. For whatever reason. Too bad. He's in office.

How can you run a state when you know your butt can be recalled at any moment, if people don't like your policies? I don't think it's good government or business.

OK, an example. Right now in MN the gov. is axing the state budget. Much of the "problem" has simply been pushed onto counties and cities. The state mandates certain social services, etc., but no longer provides help in the funding.

Lots of people are going to be losing jobs with these budget cuts. OH MY GOD, LETS RECALL THAT FREAKIN' GOVERNOR! HE CAN'T DO THAT!

Yadda, yadda. The gov. is addressing the problem in MN... so let him, despite the personal problems it will force on many people.

If there was a provision for recall in MN, perhaps he never would have tried to get the budget balanced. Would have left way too many POed people with a reason to want his ass outta office.”

“I VANT TOO BEE YOUH GOVEHNAW!

MARIA SAYS I VOULD LOOK GEWD SITTING BEHIND DAT DESK SMOKING A CEEGAHHHH....”

“Also, can someone please tell me how our federal government addressed the idea of a recall?”

“Just about all the reasons listed to recall Davis could be used against Bush.
Should we have a Federal Recall law?”

“Impeachment is the only way I know of to remove an elected Federal official, or a judge. It's pretty rare, even for judges.

Or were you talking about the Federal Government's response to the Cali recall?”

“You'd have to amend the Constitution.”

“No, just that Issa (the guy who paid for the recall)faults Davis for running a giant deficit but thinks Bush is doing a great job.

Go figure.”

“was that a net or a gross loss? 'cause they still keep comin', and we still keep building, and we still keep pretending that it's a great place to live.”

“What percentage of states are not facing a budget crisis now?

<sarcasm>Fortunately Bush came through with aid to the states as the Feds always do during economic downturns.</sarcasm>”

“Navi, my first reply was to lizs, and my second was to you.

TB, interesting to find a Californian who doesn't think the place is heaven on earth...”

“Colorado isn't. They have a law on their books that keeps the legislature from running up the budget during boom times. The budget can't increase by more than the combination of inflation and population increase.”

“lizs, with passion like that you should have run for governor!”

“YEAH Lizs! Go kick Ahhhhnold's ass!

(Have you heard what he's been saying behind your back?)”

“heaven on earth? i think not. in the heavily populated areas it's dirty, overcrowded and just getting worse. we're allegedly the most progressive state, but do we do anything progressive that requires real action? do we do anything to inhibit our ridiculous water waste? this place makes me crazy and i can't wait to get out of it - as soon as we figure out where to go. and when i find heaven on earth, i'll keep it to myself. ;)”

“Lizs for Governor of Iowa!

"Corn in every pot!"”

“1. Greyout Davis is the biggest liar I've ever seen / heard of in politics, and when you consider that his competition is every other politician, that's saying something. There are no words to describe his lack of ethics or incompetence.

2. To be fair, I believe GWB is the worst President we've ever had in office, using the same criteria. I'm proud to say that, even tough I'm a Repeb,I couldn't bring myself to vote for him.

3. California is absolutely, positively, the finest place on earth to live, our politicians notwithstanding. Within a few hours of my home, this year I either have, or will, do the following:
1. BP the John Muir Trail
2. BP Numerous tails in Desolation Wilderness
3. Climb Mt Lassen
4. BP in the Trinity Alps
5. BP the Lost Coast trail
6. BP thru Giant Redwoods to the ocean (4 times so far this year!)
7. Clam diging campout at ocean
8. Deep Sea fishing (2 hours away)
9. Horseback riding in the mountainside above Lake Tahoe
10. White Water rafting / kayaking

That's how I deal with our corrupt political scene, escape!”

“There is a HUGE difference between Southern CA & Northern CA.”

“(and you're upwind from most all of the sources of air pollution in the contiguous 48, which is handy, <G>)

There is that smog thing, and the ungodly vehicle exhaust, tho'....

.... and the earthquakes, fires and mudslides....


I guesss things have a tendency to balance out.”

“My brother lived out there for seven years before he had to leave.

Too many weirdoes and earthquakes.”

“My 2 cents worth:

1. Fewer people voted in the last election than any election in California history. More people seem poised to vote in this than any before. I say anyone who couldn't bother voting last time should be able to vote this time.

2. If Issa thought a recall election was such a great idea he should foot the bill for the whole darn thing, not just the petition drive.

3. Basically the Republicans are upset because Davis finessed the election last year by going after the stronger candidate in the primary. Too darn bad. Not that I think Davis has been anything but a total sleezeball politician (I know, redundant)but what the heck - he won the election fair and square.”

“I agree with Pepper. Further, I find the recall to be a bad idea since the incoming administration (assuming the recall were to go through) is not vested in the current California budget crisis. In other words, they would be able to point at Gray Davis and blame the whole mess on him while doing nothing to fix the budget and everything to make themselves look good. Davis's political career is now tied to the California economy. I say let the bastard sink or swim with it.”

“"I am amazed at how the left is crying that they are having their votes overturned and the right is trying to steal an election."
Nigal

Yeah, what about the political center, professor?”

“There is no center in California. To a great extent, that's our problem in this state. Everything is controlled by special interests, both on the right and the left.

The left has cornered their traditional base, the unions, etc., and the right has been so "idealogically pure" and inflexible that they've turned off everyone except the hard-core right wing zealots. Therefore, they have little power, and this has caused a severe imbalance politically, the Dem's don't have to listen to the Repubs because the Dems control everything. That's how we got into this mess.

Think that thru, please... I didn't say the Repubs necessarily had a better plan, what I'm suggesting is that without a balance of power, either party will wreck the system. We have proven that!

Politically, this state is a mess.”

“I sort of feel we should elect a Republican in the recall. Then in the general election, in 3 years, everyone can say "So what have you done?" Then it's a Democrat for the next 4 (or 8).”

“It was attempted three times on Regan during his time in office. Did ya hear the whole country wailing and crying then?
- Nigal

Of course since the necessary signatures were never collected, it is hardly a valid comparison. Davis is the only California Governor to face a special election.”

“Tilt: : "There is that smog thing, and the ungodly vehicle exhaust, tho'.... and the earthquakes, fires and mudslides...."

Response: Once again, I implore the rest of you who don't live here to get out a U.S. map. Take a look at how large California is. Please put your broad-brush away and take the time to learn that California, if it were in the East, would stretch from the NorthEast to the Southeast, covering more area than most can imagine. Yeah, there is smog, yeah, we have pollution problems, etc. BUT, this state is 800 miles long, and has 35 MILLION people in it. It is more geographically diverse than most countries, and some continents!

Pepper: "Basically the Republicans are upset because Davis finessed the election last year by going after the stronger candidate in the primary. Too darn bad"

Response: Actually that was an incredible "dirty politician" trick. He spent his money on ensuring that the stronger candidate (Riordan) from the OTHER party didn't win the nomination, because he was (justifiably) concerned that he couldn't win the governors seat against a strong candidate. So he made sure that a weaker candidate from the opposite party ran against him. What he was SUPPOSED to be doing is running for the Democratic Party nomination, but since they are so lock-step, that was unnecessary, so he spent his $$$ trashing Riordan, on behalf of the Repubs, and to great effect.

He is a slimeball, no if's, and's or but's, and will do whatever is legal to win, regardless of how unethical it may be. He makes me puke, on behalf of all mankind.

Phaeddy: "I find the recall to be a bad idea since the incoming administration (assuming the recall were to go through) is not vested in the current California budget crisis. In other words, they would be able to point at Gray Davis and blame the whole mess on him while doing nothing to fix the budget and everything to make themselves look good."

Response: Whoever wins the recall election is banking on doing something positive so they will be re-elected to serve out a full term. One could persuasively argue they have a greater interest in accomplishing something that Greyout, who will be gone in 2 years regardless!”

“"Of course since the necessary signatures were never collected, it is hardly a valid comparison. Davis is the only California Governor to face a special election"

RESPONSE: As usual, you took the quote out of context and tried to play it to your advantage.

The reason "it is hardly a valid comparison" is because the large number of signatures required to put the recall on a ballot were not obtained while Reagan was Gov.

Please get you stuff straight, or, better yet, please stay away from threads intended for people who THINK, and don't necessarily have a political agenda they are pushing, who are interested in FACTS.

Of course, that would be WAY out of character for you, wouldn't it?

OH!! I thought you VOLUNTARILY weren't going to post anymore on TT? What happened to that?”

“Like I said... things have a tendency to balance out.”

“"Response: Actually that was an incredible "dirty politician" trick. He spent his money on ensuring that the stronger candidate (Riordan) from the OTHER party didn't win the nomination, because he was (justifiably) concerned that he couldn't win the governors seat against a strong candidate. So he made sure that a weaker candidate from the opposite party ran against him. What he was SUPPOSED to be doing is running for the Democratic Party nomination, but since they are so lock-step, that was unnecessary, so he spent his $$$ trashing Riordan, on behalf of the Repubs, and to great effect."

You know, Wanderer, this whole thing means squat to anyone outside California. But you know what else... that sounds an awful lot like a lot of political campaigns to me...

Trying to get rid of the strongest opposition candidate out there in whatever way possible (I can go way back to psychological probems -- was that Eagleton? Philandering. What appears to be illegal interests.)

That's politics! It's not some strictly California thing! By golly, we should all by recalling all our politicians!”

“Hey eat me wanderer.

Nobody was crying or wailing because there was no special election.

Understand?”

“Good grief, Tom Eagleton. They kicked the only guy whose psychiatrist could vouch for his sanity off the ticket! Instead we got McGovern/Schriver and Nixon/Agnew.

Five years later, Nixon and Agnew resigned in disgrace and McGovern was pretty much out of the loop.

Tom Eagleton was still the sanest of them all.”

“Many people attribute the mess that Calif is in to a couple of reparable things: (1) term limits, whereby experienced state politicians are absent after they serve a couple of terms (btw, I'm not asserting that there aren't GOOD reasons to limit a politician's term); and (2) the initiative process, which locks up a substantial portion of the budget for things that a generally fiscally unaware electorate has voted for.

I agree that Davis is a slimy pandering scumbag; but that's the price we're paying b/c the majority of Californians voted for him. Is the recall process misguided? Will it make future governors apt to respond in a way that benefits themselves, politically, at the expense of the citizens at large b/c they'll be fearfull of making the politically tough but fiscally appropriate decisions. Probablyy, and probably. But is the recall process part of Calif law? Yes, and if the electorate finds it distasteful and warrantless, then support should be mobilized to change the law. Complaining about an existing law is moot, at this time.

Two more points: Britain seems to do fine with referendums (I think that's what they're called) on how the prime minister is doing, and those elections occur something like 3 weeks after they're called for.

And the LA Times had a photo of the Recall Bustamante headquarters that's already got a storefront in some NoCal town.”

“Phaeddy: "I find the recall to be a bad idea since the incoming administration (assuming the recall were to go through) is not vested in the current California budget crisis. In other words, they would be able to point at Gray Davis and blame the whole mess on him while doing nothing to fix the budget and everything to make themselves look good."

Response: Whoever wins the recall election is banking on doing something positive so they will be re-elected to serve out a full term. One could persuasively argue they have a greater interest in accomplishing something that Greyout, who will be gone in 2 years regardless!


With all respect, Wanderer, I firmly believe a new governor would be able to get by without doing the things necessary to turn the economy around, and in two years campaign on the "It was Gray's fault" issue again, saying they need more time to undo the enormous economic atrocities committed by the Davis admin. I don't think this scenario is a stretch at all, in fact, and during the next two years, the sitting governor will have time to finesse the special interests.”

“It's like the mini-me of what happened with Florida during the presidential election.”

“I'm sure any "politician" that is elected, will, in two years, say "IT WAS GRAY'S FAULT, NOT MINE!"

BUT.... we (the voters) can also say to him (her) .."Yeah, but you said you were going to fix it!"

I know what you're saying is correct, I just am "optimistic' (some would say naive) enough to believe that we'll be able to hold that elected official responsible for what they have, or haven't, done during their time in office.”

“I'm with you on that point, but I think that is possible without a special election.”

“If we had spent all the time, $$ & effort in the media focusing on the issues during this last 4 months that we have on the recall, & in educating our voting electorate, we would ALL be better off!

If a Special Election is what it takes to whap people in the head (figuratively) & get them to pay attention, maybe it was $$ wqell spent.

I don't know, just playing devil's advocate.”

“I don't mind Gray Davis being remembered, historically, for being the first governor who performed so unsatisfactorally that he was recalled.

There's a legacy to be proud of.”

“That said, the voters of Calif look like fools (remember some of the zanies who took out papers to run for governor???), the expense of the election cannot come at a worse time.”