Mountaineering question -AGAIN!!!

“damnit gremlin, we gave you the dates in the other thread! You Canadiens just don't respect American holidays!!!

Thanksgiving = Nov. 27th
Trip - Nov 27-30?

Gemini, don't focus on what you don't have, procuring all the toys can take years. And typically, someone else in the party will already have the group gear (Tent, stoves...) and also spare/extra equipment to borrow, like crampons, ropes, snowshoes and such.

The three pieces of gear I suggest you own is a climbing harness, a locking carabiner, and a set of Prussik ropes (rope ascenders).
With your harness, get some rope and practice tying knots. If you can't buy a standard 60 meter, 8-10 mm climbing rope, see about buying 20 meters of rope off the roll at an outdoor store. Buy enough 6 mm cord or rope to make two Prussik ropes. Armed with this stuff and a backyard tree, check out a mountaineering book that explains knots, anchors, using Prussiks, and belays.

That is enough to start learning the basics of rock and glacier travel. Forget about your clothes, the rest will come!”

“Manuka's right about the boots, except that mine have proven surprisingly comfortable, more so than my heavy leather mountaineering boots. The rocker in my Scarpa 'Inverno' makes it easy to walk on snow (although they'd probably be hell on pavement), and work great with crampons, snowshoes and AT skis. Many people say Koflacks (sp?) are more comfortable, but I don't know. The shop where I bought mine only had Scarpas, but they had a boot ramp so that I could make sure they fit - I bought socks at the same time. Also if you've ever struggled to put on frozen leather boots in the morning as I have, Plastics are a warm, warm heaven.

I'm not going to comment on the hygiene questions except to say that if you join us you will find yourself among gentlemen.”

“Oh yes, if you're going to get into technical alpinism (harness, rope, knots, et c.) you really MUST take a course.”

“gremlin, are you getting horny again?”

“damn... sold out!! I just saw those boots yesterday somewhere for over $200.”

“what's a men size 7??”

“It's usually 2 sizes bigger than a womans size. I usually wear a 4 1/2 in mens (well boys) and I wear 6 1/2 in womens.”

“what's a men size 7??"
Gemini
08:01:50 PM
09/17/03

I don't know, but I could demonstrate a "men's size 8"”

“well, well, well...there I wanted to check on this thread, see if I missed something...and what do I see? BB's exciting post! Why did I ever ask this question? I should've known better.

anyway, I bought the book mountaineering - the freedom of the hills. Great book. Didn't read all of it yet though. I think MtnSteve did tell me about it way back then.

Now I am checking ropes. I have no clue what the heII I am doing. Captn bobo said something about 60meters of ropes?? now that can't be or can it?? I mean 60 METERS???

what's with this one:
Rope I

ahh, I wanted to add a couple more links, but I can't find anything else...shhh...always thought a rope is a rope is a rope, I guess not.”

“You can hire a guide or outfitter and they will supply all or most of the gear needed. Take a beginners course with a group.
This might be a good way for you to find out if this is something you are really into. You will benefit from the experience also so the expense won't be wasted. At some point you will need a rope. Several in fact, of different lengths and diameter.”

“My information on ropes is ancient history, but we used 11mm ropes for lead climbing, 9mm for hauling bags and crevasse travel, and to use with a 11mm for a long rappel. For length, we used 150' for class 5 climbs, 180' if we had one for a climb with long pitches, and 120' for top roping or glacier travel.

What the current practices are, I don't know, but those dimensions would still work, I'm sure.

Of course, a nylon rope with a woven sheath and a parallel core, which we called perlon, is a lot easier to handle than the old braided ropes, which we used in mountaineering for some strange reason that I never understood.

As far as taking a class, of course smart people would take a class if it is available. I did peak climbing for a few years, learned ice ax use, self arrest and such, and did some top rope climbs, and knew how to belay and rappel, and some knots. My first time in Yosemite, my 4 companions split into two groups, two experienced climbers, and me who had never led a rock climb and hadn't done more than two top roped 5th class climbs, and another guy who had even less experience. They gave me a rack of gear, and took us to a very vertical 5.7 climb called "AFter 7".

They said "here's an easy one for you two, go for it!"

I said "what are these things(chocks)for?"

"you stick those in cracks in the rocks."

I had on mountaineering boots, big heavy ones. And then I had an introduction to the use of chocks on the way up the full 150' vertical pitch. That was scary. I guess that like learning to swim by being thrown in.”

“The direction a lot of climbers and guides around here have been moving to is using 2 9mm ropes for climbing. On most climbs in Red Rocks (NV) you have to haul a second rope up for the rappel, so why not utilize it for climbing as well. Climbers used to use 1 10mm to climb and hauled the second 10mm up just to rappel with.

With mountaineering it's probably a little different because you're not going to be doing as much rappelling but more just roped together ice/snow travel. So a single 10mm or 11mm would be better. The length depends on how many people you're mountaineering with and/or how long the pitches are.

I would hold off on buying a rope right away though. It will take years of experience to be able to lead your own climb. And the only way to get that experience is to climb/mountaineer with people who have that experience and they will have all the gear/ropes that you will need to learn with.”

“a rope is defineitely not a rope if youre climbing. its a very technical sport with lots of very necessary gear that you need to be able to use in your sleep. you cant just wing it like backpacking.”

“so no rope then. I guess I am back at the clothing and the book. Have the book and found some pants.

I'll rent the boots, and crampons, and maybe the snowshoes

so what else is there? A class? I thought you guys are going to teach me??

Maybe take just a rock climbing class? this way I can learn the basic knots. the book explains them too though.”

“Go on winter hikes with us. Experience hiking/camping in snow and cold.... take it from there.”

“yeah, I'll do that big 8-inch man!”

“????? OK”

“ha!! talking baout your last post... on this thread. (boots)

never mind! I am tired!”

“LMAO! Now I get it. Goodnight Gabby!”

“i really wish i could afford the money to get seriously into climbing.”

“No rope for now. Rope is to stop you if you fall vertically.

Lot of stuff before you get to that point.

Buy a great sleeping bag and excellent ground pad first.

This is your insurance if weather gets really nasty, or you are injured and have to wait for help, or it gets super cold. Number 1 priority is being able to stay alive right where you are.
Cheap additional insurance is a space blanket in addition to them, never instead of them.

Then check the daytime clothing. Polypro, capilene, silk, v/fine wool full length underwear.

Insulation, 200 fleece top and bottom, I use a vest on top but if you get cold easy full sleeves.

Silk or polypro liner gloves, then fleece mitts and waterproof shell overmitts (yep 3 layers on hands just like everywhere else).

Waterproof outer layer, preferable with full side zips on the pants so you can take them on and off with boots on.

Jacket absolutely must have a hood, preferable with some adjustment around the face. It is nice to be able to see where you are going.
Insulation for under the hood, balaclava that covers head and most of face, neoprene face mask.

Full length gaitors to keep snow out of your boots.

None of this needs to be goretex. Do not shell out hundreds of $$$ when starting. But as each item gets worn out or damaged upgrade to goretex.

Snow goggles or glacier glasses, I personally prefer goggles, get antifog ones, most are these days anyway.

Whistle, compass, and headlamp (that shines 50ft or more).

Now you are ready for Winter hiking and backpacking. Rent snowshoes to go with your existing boots and you can cover most of the mountains in the East Coast.

Next upgrade - Ice axe, now you can rent boots and crampons which covers most mountains in the lower 48.

Next upgrade - start to learn technical climbing with a harness, carabiners, helmet, and knot work. Or you can start the rock climbing stuff next summer.”

“Who is a mountaineer and posts all them schnazzy trip reports! He's done a ton of stuff AND he really knows what he's doing. I want his autograph. He's nice looking to boot!”

“Manuka and Idaho Bob - and Cap'n Bobo know what they're talking about. Don't buy a rope and take a class - trust me on this.”

“Danababy who ??

Guillaume Dargaud ?”

“Dana...so what are you saying? you are going to learn how to moutaineer with me??

I think you talking about this dude that posted the other day...what was his name...f something...righ?? the one with the 0000111101010101's??”

“He's a flatlander. This guy is from Colorado and is named Kelly. Dunno the rest . I just thought it sounded interesting. I have alot on my plate now with school but that won't go on forever. I can learn to mountaineer but its going to take second place behind schooling. Bummer. Suffering on rock is alot more fun than suffering in a classroom.”

“HOld up.. backing up here quickly. That didn't read too good. Sorry. Let me rephrase. "No Gemini, We are referring to two different persons."
Person #1 and Person #2 are both fine looking fellows and both post good trip reports. They live in different locations.
:-)”

“"Danababy who ??

Guillaume Dargaud ?"
manuka
09:52:13 AM

this is one of those WTF lightning moments for me.”

“"Danababy who ??

Guillaume Dargaud ?"
manuka
09:52:13 AM

this is one of those WTF lightning moments for me.”

“Check out this website

An Italian or french climber who has climbed in Antarctica, New Zealand, Nepal, Dolomites (Italian Alps) all over.

Not in expeditions either solo or with one or two friends.

Currently in Colorado. Great photos.”

“Gemini, just glancing through the recent posts here at work. I'm really busy right now so I'll try to make this short.

Rope, YES! If you reread my post I recommend that you buy enough rope to practice tying knots (figure 8 and such) so you can learn to clip your rope into your harness. I mentioned 60 meters because that's (I think) the standard length for buying a whole rope, but you don't need a 120 foot rope right now and I'm not suggesting that you throw yourself off the side of a 4 story building, but you could buy, say 30 feet of rope (alot of outdoor stores up my way will let you buy climbing rope by the foot or meter). With this you can practice knots, practice hitches and belays, and if you have a big tree somewhere with a sturdy limb, you can throw the rope over the tree (Tying off one end securely) and then practice working with the Prussik ropes.

Hope that helps, gotta go.”